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Black Lives Matter plan to 'completely dismantle' society

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Brictoria
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10 Jul 2021, 1:50 am

Persephone29 wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Brictoria wrote:
There's also a "Dunning-Kruger" type effect as well, as the more political "extreme" a person is, lacking common ground with their "adversaries" (and so having limited\no understanding of them\their beliefs\motivations), the more "confidently"\forcefuly they will tend to try and push their "knowledge"\"understanding" of that side, projecting beliefs\motivations onto those adversaries which do not match (or at the very least, severely distort) the other side's true beliefs\motivations. They are also more likely to push negative stereotypes of that "other side" - For example, the more likely a person is to make statements\claims indicating a belief that "the left are all communists", or "the right are all bigots", the greater the distance from the "centre" that person is likely to be (If a person is unable to find any "good" in the other side[1], the more "extremist" they are in their views), and so no value should be placed on their commentary regarding the "other side" as it would consist (almost?) entirely of bias\prejudice\personal desires, rather than facts.
.


The reality is that political and social policy in western democracies is largely centrist and very slightly to the right in the United States (particularly with guns and race) whereas in Scandanavia, Australia, Canada and NZ due to subsidised health care, minimum wages, free education, climate action and anti-vilification laws we are very slightly to the left of centre.

The war on the left is therefore much more vociferous in the US where the right holds sway.

My views (and probably most of the lefties here) aren't that extreme because I'm not a card carrying communist or openly socialist for that matter. However I align with policies that are more left-leaning.

The people you label as "extremists" either on the right or left on WP can be collectively counted on one hand. Your labelling is misdirected.



Would hoping for the death of MAGAs be counted as extreme, or negated because you're not a card carrying communist? Because you said that today on another thread... and Admin didn't ask you to take it down.


I would think that any person making (or agreeing with) statements such the following (from either side, inserting their own collective description for those they are targetting) would certainly indicate extremist political views on that person's part:
Quote:
Nah, there's going to be no civil war. Hopefully a lot of dead <insert choice of descriptor of political "opposition">s like this one


Wishing\hoping for the death of an individual person is bad enough, but to wish\hope for the death of a group of people merely for the "crime" of holding differing views seems particularly abhorent - suggesting those doing so have no interest in (or desire to) compromise with those on the other side of the political spectrum, and worse, that they are potentially quite receptive\enthusiastic for (or worse, are endorsing) actions similar to those during the "Great Purge" taking place targetting those with whom they disagree.



Kraichgauer
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10 Jul 2021, 2:55 am

^^^
How about those Trumpster loons who think Biden and other Democrat leaders should be executed? Have you spoken out against them?


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Pepe
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10 Jul 2021, 3:10 am

Brictoria wrote:
Persephone29 wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Brictoria wrote:
There's also a "Dunning-Kruger" type effect as well, as the more political "extreme" a person is, lacking common ground with their "adversaries" (and so having limited\no understanding of them\their beliefs\motivations), the more "confidently"\forcefuly they will tend to try and push their "knowledge"\"understanding" of that side, projecting beliefs\motivations onto those adversaries which do not match (or at the very least, severely distort) the other side's true beliefs\motivations. They are also more likely to push negative stereotypes of that "other side" - For example, the more likely a person is to make statements\claims indicating a belief that "the left are all communists", or "the right are all bigots", the greater the distance from the "centre" that person is likely to be (If a person is unable to find any "good" in the other side[1], the more "extremist" they are in their views), and so no value should be placed on their commentary regarding the "other side" as it would consist (almost?) entirely of bias\prejudice\personal desires, rather than facts.
.


The reality is that political and social policy in western democracies is largely centrist and very slightly to the right in the United States (particularly with guns and race) whereas in Scandanavia, Australia, Canada and NZ due to subsidised health care, minimum wages, free education, climate action and anti-vilification laws we are very slightly to the left of centre.

The war on the left is therefore much more vociferous in the US where the right holds sway.

My views (and probably most of the lefties here) aren't that extreme because I'm not a card carrying communist or openly socialist for that matter. However I align with policies that are more left-leaning.

The people you label as "extremists" either on the right or left on WP can be collectively counted on one hand. Your labelling is misdirected.



Would hoping for the death of MAGAs be counted as extreme, or negated because you're not a card carrying communist? Because you said that today on another thread... and Admin didn't ask you to take it down.


I would think that any person making (or agreeing with) statements such the following (from either side, inserting their own collective description for those they are targetting) would certainly indicate extremist political views on that person's part:
Quote:
Nah, there's going to be no civil war. Hopefully a lot of dead <insert choice of descriptor of political "opposition">s like this one


Wishing\hoping for the death of an individual person is bad enough, but to wish\hope for the death of a group of people merely for the "crime" of holding differing views seems particularly abhorent - suggesting those doing so have no interest in (or desire to) compromise with those on the other side of the political spectrum, and worse, that they are potentially quite receptive\enthusiastic for (or worse, are endorsing) actions similar to those during the "Great Purge" taking place targetting those with whom they disagree.


EEP! 8O



Pepe
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10 Jul 2021, 3:11 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
^^^
How about those Trumpster loons who think Biden and other Democrat leaders should be executed? Have you spoken out against them?


Brictoria and I are not binary.
I think that says it all. 8)



cyberdad
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10 Jul 2021, 4:10 am

Persephone29 wrote:
Would hoping for the death of MAGAs be counted as extreme, or negated because you're not a card carrying communist? Because you said that today on another thread... and Admin didn't ask you to take it down.


I was referring to Ashli Babbit who intended to dive headlong into a group of armed capitol police officers with the aim of murdering congressmen.

She is clearly not a victim given both Kmart and Sears took down t-shirts with her face due to the embarrassment of being associated with a slain criminal.



cyberdad
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10 Jul 2021, 4:12 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
^^^
How about those Trumpster loons who think Biden and other Democrat leaders should be executed? Have you spoken out against them?


That's where the obfuscation comes. You will notice the same people do Olympic level gymnastics to avoid directly answering your question.



Brictoria
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10 Jul 2021, 4:12 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
^^^
How about those Trumpster loons who think Biden and other Democrat leaders should be executed? Have you spoken out against them?


Was there something about "from either side" that suggested some form of hypocritical endorsement of people whose own stated aims\objectives (not those ascribed to them by others) were what you described?

I don't care which side of the political spectrum a person is on: Wishing (or endorsing those wishes from another person) harm\death on another person (or worse, group of people) for their political views is an abhorent act. It also has the effect of demonstrating the probable authoritarian\dictatorial views the person(s) doing this would hold, through their desire to silence any opposition to their beliefs.



cyberdad
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10 Jul 2021, 4:18 am

Brictoria wrote:
In this way, your sugestion that the political\social situation in the USA is to the right would indicate that a "war on the right" would be more likely, given the country alternates between "left" and "right", so as it moves "right", a larger portion of the country would therefore be to the "left" of this, and so likely to initiate a "war" to reclaim\"re-centre" the political situation.


The US is much more right wing overall compared to Australia. The coalition party has mostly moderate politicians who have more in common with the democrats in the US. There are of course exceptions like Tony Abbott and of course Scott Morrison who brown nosed Trump.

Whereas conventional republicans seem to more resemble One nation or the furthest right wingers on the National Party ticket. Particularly with guns and protesting anti-vilifications laws.

I recall a political commentator on the ABC (it might have either been John Sheridan or Paul Kelly from the Australian newspaper) saying exactly the same thing about the bulk of the political right in Australia probably falling on the same spectrum as the US democrats.



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10 Jul 2021, 8:14 am

Brictoria wrote:
This can also be seen in the difference between how members of each "side" treated the death of a prominent member of the "other side" in the past year (both of whom were seen as prominent\important to their own side, and disliked by members of the other) and the respect (or lack thereof) shown for those whose views\beliefs they may have disagreed with:
https://wrongplanet.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=390680
https://wrongplanet.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=394576

OK this is a false equivalency. RBG was a respected jurist and to my knowledge had the respect of all 8 of her colleagues. Limbaugh OTOH was a propagandist who probably hoped his public performances would antagonize those with who he disagreed. He intentionally made enemies and acted to advance polarization.

It took some time, but I found the WP announcement of when Antonin Scalia died:

WP discussion following death of Antonin Scalia

Read this thread and you'll see there was almost ZERO vitriol and the thread was dominated by right-wingers singing his praise and expressing fear of what could happen if Hillary had won the 2016 election and replaced him with a liberal. Very few if any liberals trying to start a fight with those people.


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10 Jul 2021, 8:41 am

Brictoria wrote:
This can also be seen in the difference between how members of each "side" treated the death of a prominent member of the "other side" in the past year

David Koch and Donald Rumsfeld obituary topics got nasty comments.


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10 Jul 2021, 8:49 am

TheRobotLives wrote:
Brictoria wrote:
This can also be seen in the difference between how members of each "side" treated the death of a prominent member of the "other side" in the past year

David Koch and Donald Rumsfeld obituary topics got nasty comments.

Koch like Limbaugh was another champion of polarization. He wasn't merely somebody with whom those on the Left disagree. He was an enemy.

Rumsfeld was a warmonger. Americans are sick and tired of being asked to demonstrate their patriotism by blindly supporting foreign wars, which is unfortunate because the day could come when there will be a legitimate need to support one e.g. 1914 and 1939. Anger towards him is legitimate and not by any means limited to the Left.


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Brictoria
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10 Jul 2021, 9:06 am

MaxE wrote:
TheRobotLives wrote:
Brictoria wrote:
This can also be seen in the difference between how members of each "side" treated the death of a prominent member of the "other side" in the past year

David Koch and Donald Rumsfeld obituary topics got nasty comments.

Koch like Limbaugh was another champion of polarization. He wasn't merely somebody with whom those on the Left disagree. He was an enemy.

Rumsfeld was a warmonger. Americans are sick and tired of being asked to demonstrate their patriotism by blindly supporting foreign wars, which is unfortunate because the day could come when there will be a legitimate need to support one e.g. 1914 and 1939. Anger towards him is legitimate and not by any means limited to the Left.


Regardless of how you try and "justify" the different treatment accorded to people, it doesn't alter the point I was making about the different treatment each person received from the "other side".

During her life, RBG was also considered a somewhat divisive person (or enemy) by some of those on the "right", and her decisions were more impactful on society (to both sides) than the others (whose words were generally only listened to by their own side).



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10 Jul 2021, 9:20 am

Brictoria wrote:
Regardless of how you try and "justify" the different treatment accorded to people, it doesn't alter the point I was making about the different treatment each person received from the "other side".

I wasn't trying to justify bubkis I was just trying to present a rational explanation for behavior that you seem to trying to frame in terms of paranoia.


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10 Jul 2021, 9:29 am

They can "dismantle" whatever they wish, but when they do so there's going to be a lot of bleating and gnashing of teeth when the welfare dollars disappear.

Who is John Gault?



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10 Jul 2021, 9:31 am

MaxE wrote:
TheRobotLives wrote:
Brictoria wrote:
This can also be seen in the difference between how members of each "side" treated the death of a prominent member of the "other side" in the past year

David Koch and Donald Rumsfeld obituary topics got nasty comments.

Koch like Limbaugh was another champion of polarization. He wasn't merely somebody with whom those on the Left disagree. He was an enemy.

Rumsfeld was a warmonger. Americans are sick and tired of being asked to demonstrate their patriotism by blindly supporting foreign wars, which is unfortunate because the day could come when there will be a legitimate need to support one e.g. 1914 and 1939. Anger towards him is legitimate and not by any means limited to the Left.


Obama was a bigger warmonger than Rumsfeld and Bush. But I'm quite certain nobody on the left, here, will say an unkind word against him when he dies-- except me, that is.


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MaxE
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10 Jul 2021, 9:53 am

VegetableMan wrote:
MaxE wrote:
TheRobotLives wrote:
Brictoria wrote:
This can also be seen in the difference between how members of each "side" treated the death of a prominent member of the "other side" in the past year

David Koch and Donald Rumsfeld obituary topics got nasty comments.

Koch like Limbaugh was another champion of polarization. He wasn't merely somebody with whom those on the Left disagree. He was an enemy.

Rumsfeld was a warmonger. Americans are sick and tired of being asked to demonstrate their patriotism by blindly supporting foreign wars, which is unfortunate because the day could come when there will be a legitimate need to support one e.g. 1914 and 1939. Anger towards him is legitimate and not by any means limited to the Left.


Obama was a bigger warmonger than Rumsfeld and Bush. But I'm quite certain nobody on the left, here, will say an unkind word against him when he dies-- except me, that is.

I don't think Obama was a warmonger however I know people on the Left who consider him, Hillary, and Biden to all be "neocons" which is roughly the same sort of accusation. It's really more common to hear Leftists say this i.e. Bernie Bros, which is probably shocking to those who consider Obama to be a Communist.

TBH in Obama's case I think he simply wasn't much good at Foreign Policy and wasn't confident setting a different direction from what W had started. The difference was that Obama saw it as his duty to prosecute these wars whereas W reveled in that activity and made it the focus of his Presidency. Of course Obama's naïveté led to Benghazi. Yep, I just criticized Obama in case you don't notice.


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