Mass Shooting in Michigan High School

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Kraichgauer
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06 Dec 2021, 8:30 pm

TheRobotLives wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
But it wasn't for a video game. If the teachers could see the kid was distressed but the parents didn't, then they're both sh***y parents.

The child was not distressed.

He was well-behaved.

That is partially why the counselors sent him back to class.


Being that he had drawn a picture of a murder victim, along with writing that he couldn't stop himself - prior to shooting up his school - I'd say that was evidence that he was disturbed.


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cyberdad
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06 Dec 2021, 8:32 pm

TheRobotLives wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
But it wasn't for a video game. If the teachers could see the kid was distressed but the parents didn't, then they're both sh***y parents.

The child was not distressed.

He was well-behaved.

That is partially why the counselors sent him back to class.


The counsellors obviously aren't very perceptive.



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06 Dec 2021, 8:35 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
IsabellaLinton wrote:
I don't think detention is the right word. He hadn't done anything wrong other than using his phone in class, and making a depressed drawing which said he needed help. I get your point though. If the parents were refusing to take him out of the school he shouldn't have been left alone through the lunch break.


Yes my daughter is handled this way and so was Kraichgauer's daughter.

Kraichgauer wrote:
Incidentally, I am a parent, as well. When my daughter - who is autistic - had a meltdown in school, we'd drop everything and go get her. At one point, she actually hit a teacher - a much more severe action than merely looking up the price of ammo.


Even though she is 16 she has elbowed her teacher or got into fights this year and was sent to sit with the deputy principal. Admittedly this is a form a negative reinforcement where her actions have consequences (losing recess/lunch). She goes to an NT school and many of her classmates get into fights/other infractions also end up in recess/lunchtime detention so it's not just for autistic kids.

Mental health is not taken seriously at schools. But I can also see how teachers aren't trained to see the first signs of depression or mental breakdown. In NT schools the teachers also often don't care that much, When I was in school they had a sink or swim attitude. If kids were sinking then that was their problem not the teachers.


My daughter is in a special ed class, so she's shielded from NT bullying, thankfully.


My daughter follows her own ILP in the classroom which is a vocational/special ed pathway. The irony is she's smarter than her NT classmates.



cyberdad
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06 Dec 2021, 8:37 pm

IsabellaLinton wrote:
You, Kraich, and the rest of us who dedicate our lives to parenting wouldn’t dream of setting our kids up for failure the way these two morons did. .


Why are we comparing ourselves to a couple nutjobs who ditched their son?



DW_a_mom
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06 Dec 2021, 8:38 pm

TheRobotLives wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
But it wasn't for a video game. If the teachers could see the kid was distressed but the parents didn't, then they're both sh***y parents.

The child was not distressed.

He was well-behaved.

That is partially why the counselors sent him back to class.


Some kids hide distress quite well, and I know that from experience with my second child. She made figuring her issues out near impossible for the adults in her life, but at least my instincts knew SOMETHING was off.

And sometimes good behavior IS the warning sign, odd as that may sound.

It is obvious to me that the shooter was distressed and his drawings were a cry for help. I wish the adults in his life had taken it seriously enough to provide more caution that day.


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DW_a_mom
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06 Dec 2021, 8:40 pm

cyberdad wrote:
IsabellaLinton wrote:
You, Kraich, and the rest of us who dedicate our lives to parenting wouldn’t dream of setting our kids up for failure the way these two morons did. .


Why are we comparing ourselves to a couple nutjobs who ditched their son?


Would you have known they were nut jobs before all this happened? How well do we really know the other parents we associate with?


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cyberdad
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06 Dec 2021, 8:44 pm

DW_a_mom wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
IsabellaLinton wrote:
You, Kraich, and the rest of us who dedicate our lives to parenting wouldn’t dream of setting our kids up for failure the way these two morons did. .


Why are we comparing ourselves to a couple nutjobs who ditched their son?


Would you have known they were nut jobs before all this happened? How well do we really know the other parents we associate with?


I don't. But then I don't compare myself to the Crumby's either.



IsabellaLinton
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06 Dec 2021, 8:52 pm

cyberdad wrote:
DW_a_mom wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
IsabellaLinton wrote:
You, Kraich, and the rest of us who dedicate our lives to parenting wouldn’t dream of setting our kids up for failure the way these two morons did. .


Why are we comparing ourselves to a couple nutjobs who ditched their son?


Would you have known they were nut jobs before all this happened? How well do we really know the other parents we associate with?


I don't. But then I don't compare myself to the Crumby's either.


I'm only comparing because some people say the parents didn't do anything wrong and needed to go to work.

I have no idea what the laws are, or what they'll be found guilty of doing (if anything).

Unfortunately there are major loopholes in American law that allow gun ownership, unsecured guns, and parental ignorance.

All I know is that they sound like shite role models, and if they didn't buy their son a gun no one would be dead today.


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cyberdad
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06 Dec 2021, 9:02 pm

IsabellaLinton wrote:
Unfortunately there are major loopholes in American law that allow gun ownership, unsecured guns, and parental ignorance.
All I know is that they sound like shite role models, and if they didn't buy their son a gun no one would be dead today.


And herein lies the problem.



demeus
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06 Dec 2021, 9:13 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
I hope the trial is soon.......


The kids trial will be soon and relatively quick. In the case of the teen, they caught the fox in the hen house with feathers on its muzzle, so to speak. I doubt even Perry Mason could get the kid out of this one.

As for the parents, that will take longer and will be more interesting because of the legal questions involved. That will be more like the recently completed Rittenhouse trial.



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06 Dec 2021, 10:40 pm

In his letter addressed to the school community, Superintendent Tim Throne announced Saturday that Oxford Community Schools was requesting a third-party investigation of the shooting.
Mr Throne also provided details on "the school's version of events" in the letter, highlighting shooting suspect Ethan Crumbley's movements leading up to and during the shooting.
Tuesday morning, after a teacher alerted school counsellors and the dean of students about concerning drawings and written statements made by the suspect, he was "immediately removed from the classroom" and taken to a guidance counsellor's office, Mr Throne said in the letter.
A day earlier, the student was discovered viewing images of ammunition on his cell phone during class and said it was for his family's shooting hobby, the letter said.
The suspect told a school counsellor the drawing was for a video game he was designing, Mr Throne said.
Guidance counsellors monitored the student in their office as they unsuccessfully tried to reach his parents for an hour and a half, the letter said.
After the parents were contacted and arrived, counsellors asked questions about the student's capacity for harm, and the family's answers "led counsellors to again conclude he did not intend on committing either self-harm or harm to others," the letter said.
School counsellors told the parents they had 48 hours to seek counselling for their son, otherwise the school would have to contact Child Protective Services, the letter reads.
When asked to take their child home for the rest of the day, Mr Throne said the student's parents "flatly refused," leaving their son behind to "return to work."
Because he had no prior disciplinary actions on his record, school counsellors decided to allow him to return to his class rather than send him to what they thought would be an empty home, Mr Throne said, adding the decision was not shared with the principal or assistant principal.
The suspect starting firing his gun "during passing time between classes when hundreds of students were in the hallway transitioning from one classroom to the other" later that morning, Mr Throne said, and it's unclear to him if the gun was in the student's backpack.
"Before the shooter was able to walk a short distance to enter the main hallway, students and staff had already entered classrooms, locked doors, erected makeshift barricades and locked down or fled according to their training," Mr Throne said.
"The suspect was not able to gain access to a single classroom."
An initial review of videos of the shooting showed "staff and students' response to the shooter was efficient, exemplary and definitely prevented further deaths and injuries," the superintendent said.



TheRobotLives
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06 Dec 2021, 11:09 pm

cyberdad wrote:
counsellors asked questions about the student's capacity for harm, and the family's answers "led counsellors to again conclude he did not intend on committing either self-harm or harm to others," the letter said

Trained counselors determined the child did not intent to commit harm to others.

That gets the parents off the hook, as far as the second meeting, as it's reasonable for them to put their trust in the expert opinions of the counselors.


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cyberdad
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07 Dec 2021, 12:20 am

TheRobotLives wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
counsellors asked questions about the student's capacity for harm, and the family's answers "led counsellors to again conclude he did not intend on committing either self-harm or harm to others," the letter said

Trained counselors determined the child did not intent to commit harm to others.

That gets the parents off the hook, as far as the second meeting, as it's reasonable for them to put their trust in the expert opinions of the counselors.


The bit I highlighted in my post indicates the parents were asked to take the boy home and they refused leaving him at school and the subsequent events that ensued.



TheRobotLives
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07 Dec 2021, 3:46 am

cyberdad wrote:
The bit I highlighted in my post indicates the parents were asked to take the boy home and they refused leaving him at school and the subsequent events that ensued.

Why would they when the counselors determined he was OK (no immediate problem)?


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Kraichgauer
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07 Dec 2021, 5:10 am

TheRobotLives wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
The bit I highlighted in my post indicates the parents were asked to take the boy home and they refused leaving him at school and the subsequent events that ensued.

Why would they when the counselors determined he was OK (no immediate problem)?


The fact that they even called the parents show they had thought otherwise. To be sure, the school made a tragic mistake with this kid, but that hardly exonerates the parents.


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cyberdad
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07 Dec 2021, 5:45 am

The parents incriminated themselves when they ran. The proverbial horse has bolted.