20 shooting victims in California active shooter situation -

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How absolutely bigoted of you to not buy the "we had no idea" story, Adam. You would have agreed that none of them had a blooming clue, despite the couple living with tnem in a joint family arrangement until fairly recently and Mama regularly babysat their infant, if this had been a WASP family now, wouldn't you ???

You really didn't expect Mom to be suspicious of her son's comings and goings even despite the changes in him, did you ? Of course she had no clue that there were assault weapons and ammunitions in the house ! ! Buy their story please - they are innocent. Their lawyers say so, so it must be so.

P.S : note the first person hate speech against Israel by Farooq Sr :

"I told him he had to stay calm and be patient because in two years Israel will not exist any more. Geopolitics is changing: Russia, China and America don’t want Jews there any more. They are going to bring the Jews back to Ukraine. What is the point of fighting? We have already done it and we lost. Israel is not to be fought with weapons, but with politics. But he did not listen to me, he was obsessed,” Farook explained to US correspondent Paolo Mastrolilli.

But that is OK. They can say what they want, they aren't bigots. They are the victims here. Those hateful Jews, Hindus and Christians just had it coming. They asked for it, so stop blaming these innocent victims, all you racist bigots ! !!

I really can't tell if you're serious or sarcastic....

I believe it is all in a mocking, sarcastic tone.

The main idea is that people who are concerned with civil liberties, constitutional rights, and so forth are quisling fools.

The bit at the end, noting the elder Farook's wacked out theories about the future of Israel, is a bit different-the mockery there is of the people who sympathize with Palestinian aspirations and make their plight a favorite issue, without really knowing what they want, or acknowledging it.

Maybe you should read Jhiad Watch and you might learn something instead of apologizing for the terrorist actions of last week.Priests are not ones committing terrorists acts. Who is paying for the lawyers for the Farook family anyway? It does not seem that they have a extreme steady source of income to hire high priced lawyers.

http://www.jihadwatch.org/
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2015/12/sb-ji ... ith-Israel
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2015/12/sb-ji ... s-of-islam

France is starting to profile mosques:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/worl ... /76655054/

Thanks for the translation, but, no, that is not the idea. The idea is the irony at play here. Americans' strenuous attempts to play fair, and ensure that everyone's civil and constitutional rights and freedoms is respected, in some measure, contributes to the "enemy's" abilities to get away with mayhem, murder and massacre.



Farooq Sr knows exactly what he wants -- he wants Israel to stop existing, and is waiting for "geo political" forces to make it happen. "WE already tried to fight them and we lost." Really ? YOU fought and YOU lost ? Curiouser and curiouser because, gee, I had NO idea that Pakistan (or America) has ever been at war with Israel ! But, yeah, whatever. He's "just a grieving father" who lost his "peaceful son".

Leave him alone. Don't you have some white males or weirdos with autism to profile ? Why pick on this poor innocent man who has just lost his son, because the young man wouldn't wait for Jews to be shipped out of Israel and off to Ukraine by China (! !), America and Russia ?

Gawd, you don't have to be so racist !

Last edited by HisMom on 06 Dec 2015, 6:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I think it's time this thread should be locked. The vitriol and bombast is gotten quite deep by all parties concerned.

The elder Farook is an alcoholic wife beater whose own children had interfered in at least one known incident when he was beating their mother.

That is why they were divorced.

The mother's statements to the police at the time show a picture of an unstable violent man who was a danger to his family.

I am not surprised that he had some odd ideas; I am surprised that any of his children allowed him to move in with them, considering what he put them through.

I say 'Let him talk, let his wacky ideas be heard, we may find out where some of his son's and DIL's delusions came from.'

One thing that I find extremely contradictory......a spokesman from the mosque that Malik and her husband attended said that they did not socialize at all, she was very shy, that he came in for services and left immediately;

Yet supposedly,they had a wedding reception at the mosque which over one hundred people attended?

That does not seem like a withdrawn or secretive couple of people to me.

He said, she said, and the truth is somewhere in the middle.

We have only Rafia's claims that her estranged husband was an alcoholic wife-beater who assaulted her and her children. He claims that she was a fundie who disagreed with him on religion and that Rizwan who was close to his mother, and "very religious" even back then, persuaded Rafia to divorce Farooq Sr.

Who knows ? If Farooq Sr of the foaming-at-the-mouth-diatribe against the Jews accuses his wife of being a fundie, then yeah... something stinks. Mommy's whimpers that she had absolutely NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO idea that Rizwan was up to no good raises a lot of questions and bright coloured flags.

Fair enough but isn't modern Pakistan culturally closer to central Asia than south Asia?



Well I don't really think that - but I'll leave Indian matters to Indians...

I don't think 'obvious signs' means what you think it does. You really seem to think that having 20/20 hindsight translates into perfect foresight, if only people weren't too dumb or scared to act on what they're seeing, but things don't work that way, and most people who are anti-social or suddenly become that way are not dangerous at all, and that trait alone hardly justifies scrutiny of them.



None of those things is particularly suspicious, even taken together, certainly not anything you'd call the police over, whether you were afraid of being called a racist or not. What are you going to say, that your neighbor is growing a beard and working odd hours, better tap his phones?



And? You'd sell out the very principles this country was founded on because you're scared, which is why the Constitution was made to so hard to amend, as the founders knew good and well that people make poor decisions when they're emotional. I hate to say something so cliche, but you really would be letting them win if you sacrificed the founding tenets of our country for the illusion of security.



More like you fail at reading comprehension, as I made no such point, merely pointed out that Muslim immigrants are far from the only people who might commit horrific crimes behind a facade of normalcy.



I'd say it's more like people are trying to prevent an act of violence from spawning bigotry and curtailment of civil liberties, but such nuances seem a bit beyond you to be honest.



Lady, I carry a gun 24/7, you've got nothing on me in that department, the difference is that I don't profile my neighbors based on their skin color or religion



Just like the cops who pull over black people because "they're the ones who commit all the crimes" and always seem to be acting suspiciously? How many millions of people are you willing to subject to harassment to maybe prevent a handful of crimes, even serious ones? It really sounds like you think the Stasi would be a good model for American policing, and frankly, that more disheartening than terrorism.



Yes, a young Muslim woman having phone conversations in Arabic, sure signs of imminent terror...



Because your first thought when your son gets married is 'gee, better check if his wife is a budding jihadi'?



What, the late nights and the beard? Workplace conversations about religion? Changing mosques? What exactly did they do that was so suspicious, that would also be suspicious if Joe WASP did it?



I'm probably the least PC person on this board. Really, go down to PPR and ask them, they'll be happy to tell you. That being said, your anti-muslim hysteria is offensive and wrong, and whatever fear you're feeling doesn't justify or excuse it, and if anything, makes everyone less safe by increasing the alienation that drives this sort of thing. Frankly, I'm surprised that your account hasn't been suspended yet, but the week is young.

^
That is an excellent post, my hat's off to the rational and calm manner in which you reacted, Dox.

As someone who lives in a country where people haven't forgot yet where racial profiling, fear mongering, mass hysteria and turning neighbour against neighbour lead to, I don't want to see such terrorist acts turning us into a police state, driven by fear, ignorance and disregard for the law, under the guise of "protecting our children"

I think HisMom is right to be alert. I fear there is more hate around than we realise. I have somewhat experienced it myself, though not recently. I'm not saying every muslim is bad, but it's from that group that people are being converted into this new hateful group.

I agree! I feel that when a thread is locked, it punishes ALL who are interested in that thread.

I second this.

"The price of freedom" means that if you want to have freedoms and rights you need to accept that deaths and injuries will occur that would have been prevented if these rights and freedoms were not allowed.

We are in an instant gratification era. We need politicians that will state what I stated above clearly and succinctly. We can and should argue about the balance but I do not want to live in a country that gives up on the above principle or that even errs on the side of giving up rights for safety. And guns are the exception, we are a country that errs for safety over rights. We are so far down the "slippery slope" I don't know if we have the capability to see the light on the top.

If the current information on the terrorist couple is correct we have plenty of posters here that are much more obviously dangerous then the couple was in public. The couple were decently good at passing.

Last edited by ASPartOfMe on 07 Dec 2015, 12:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.