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Darmok
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23 Mar 2020, 1:05 pm

magz wrote:
Why not agree to downgrade the economy for the time of the crisis and direct the excess manpower to helping with its cause?

As I recall, your country adopted a related approach from about 1945 to 1990. How did it work out?


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magz
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23 Mar 2020, 1:11 pm

Darmok wrote:
magz wrote:
Why not agree to downgrade the economy for the time of the crisis and direct the excess manpower to helping with its cause?

As I recall, your country adopted a related approach from about 1945 to 1990. How did it work out?

After the source of the crisis (Soviets) was gone, we rebuilt our economy in a decade.


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23 Mar 2020, 1:23 pm

EzraS wrote:
I do not understand why you think it is better for most everyone to stay locked down rather than those who are at risk.
1. You can't pinpoint who is at risk. From what I read, intensive care cases in the US are largely people in their 40s and 50s, with no obvious serious health issues, ones who certainly didn't think of themselves as in the risk group;
2. If the infection spreads freely, chances for accidential contagion of the isolated subpopulation are quite high.

EzraS wrote:
There is no way to "downgrade" the economy for months and then expect it to just go back to normal instead of it collapsing. Power plants need paying customers. Farmers need paying customers. Billions of people with no income can not also be paying customers.

You are expressing a true socialist pipedream attitude.

"All people care about is money!" Um yeah because that is what provides them with food, clothing and shelter.
I am expressing the Solidarity In Crisis attitude. Part of my culture that has gone through more crises than good times.

There's also something I don't understand about the Great Depression. Farmers were paid laughably for their produce on one end, on the other end there were queues for bread. What was in-between that corrupted this pipeline?
From what I can gather: debt.
Probably too late to learn from this :(


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Sahn
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23 Mar 2020, 1:33 pm

https://medium.com/@tomaspueyo/coronavirus-the-hammer-and-the-dance-be9337092b56
What the Next 18 Months Can Look Like, if Leaders Buy Us Time



Last edited by Sahn on 23 Mar 2020, 1:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Misslizard
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23 Mar 2020, 1:34 pm

Time to bring back drive in movie theater’s.Bring your own food,beverages,smoke and a jug to whiz in and you’re all set.


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Bravo5150
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23 Mar 2020, 1:40 pm

Misslizard wrote:
Time to bring back drive in movie theater’s.Bring your own food,beverages,smoke and a jug to whiz in and you’re all set.




I saw on the news that some people already are doing drive in movies.



ASPartOfMe
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23 Mar 2020, 1:56 pm

Wuhan finally loosens coronavirus restrictions after two-month lockdown

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Wuhan, China — the epicenter of the worldwide coronavirus outbreak — is finally beginning to loosen its two-month lockdown on residents, as other countries batten down the hatches, according to a new report.

For the first time in weeks, the city appeared to slowly come back to life, with small groups of residents leaving their homes, walking the streets and shopping at grocery stores, the Guardian reported.

Over the weekend, the first train arrived, allowing more than 1,000 workers to travel from elsewhere in Hubei province to Wuhan for work, according to the report.

Authorities said Sunday that residents are all clear to return to work if they do not have a temperature and can provide a green health code, indicating their virus-free status, in addition to their employers’ signatures.

Non-residents who were stranded in the city since stringent travel restrictions were enacted in late January can also begin applying to leave, according to the report.

Residents told the Guardian that only occupants of compounds deemed virus-free are allowed to leave.

“Everyone is being very careful,” said Iris Yao, 40, who has been in the city for the duration of the lockdown.

Meanwhile, traffic jams in China’s capital, Beijing, on Monday were a sign that life was returning to normal, the outlet reported.

China saw 39 new COVID-19 cases on Monday — but all were imported from other countries, according to its National Health Commission. Now the nation has turned its attention to preventing imported cases — with officials ordering Sunday that all international flights to Beijing be diverted to other cities where passengers will be screened before entering the capital.

Shanghai and Guangzhou have both said they will start to test international arrivals for the deadly bug.


Rep. Mario Diaz-Balart says coronavirus ‘hit me like a ton of bricks’
Quote:
One of the first congressman infected with the novel coronavirus says it hit him “like a ton of bricks” — with the “tricky bug” constantly returning whenever he thinks he is recovering.

Florida Rep. Mario Diaz-Balart, who announced his infection Wednesday along with fellow representative Ben McAdams, said his sickness started with an “absolutely splitting headache” Saturday night.

“Luckily I have not had an issue breathing so I’ve never had a scary moment,” he told his older brother, NBC anchor Jose Diaz-Balart.

“But obviously very very unpleasant with headaches, with coughing and with intense fever all coming at the same time, it seems.”

Although he started Saturday’s interview with his brother saying he was feeling better, he conceded it might not stay that way.

“It’s a tricky bug because just when I thought I was over it — or I was pretty close to getting over it — the fever will come back,” he told NBC.

“But … not as bad as it was originally, and I think hopefully the worst is passed.”


Olympic champion Van der Burgh on 'worst virus ever'
Quote:
Former Olympic gold medallist Cameron van der Burgh, who revealed he has Covid-19 on Sunday, has issued a warning about the impact that coronavirus can have on the body.

South Africa's 2012 Olympic 100-metre breaststroke champion said he has "been struggling with Covid-19 for 14 days".

"By far the worst virus I have ever endured despite being a healthy individual with strong lungs (no smoking/sport), living a healthy lifestyle and being young (least at risk demographic)," the 31-year-old tweeted.

"The loss in body conditioning has been immense and (I) can only feel for the athletes that contract Covid-19 as they will suffer a great loss of current conditioning through the last training cycle.

"Infection closer to competition (would be) the worst," added Van der Burgh, who has worked as an oil analyst in London since retiring in 2018.

Van der Burgh, who also won four Commonwealth golds, has described how he was affected by coronavirus, which has now reached over 40 countries in Africa.

Although the most severe symptoms (extreme fever) have eased, I am still struggling with serious fatigue and a residual cough that I can't shake," said the six-time world champion.

"Any physical activity like walking leaves me exhausted for hours."


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Last edited by ASPartOfMe on 23 Mar 2020, 2:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Syd
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23 Mar 2020, 2:00 pm

domineekee wrote:
https://medium.com/@tomaspueyo/coronavirus-the-hammer-and-the-dance-be9337092b56
What the Next 18 Months Can Look Like, if Leaders Buy Us Time


"Do you notice something weird about this list of countries? Outside of China and Iran, which have suffered massive, undeniable outbreaks, and Brazil and Malaysia, every single country in this list is among the wealthiest in the world.
Do you think this virus targets rich countries? Or is it more likely that rich countries are better able to identify the virus?"

That's what I've been saying for a long time, but some idiot tried to argue with me that Africa is safe because of their warm weather. And then tried to imply that their governments can't suppress the real data. Yeah, right... let's all pretend that Russia hasn't done that, and that many countries don't have a long history of doing that. Don't bother picking up a history book when you can get your information from viral posts on social media.



underwater
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23 Mar 2020, 2:03 pm

Syd wrote:
domineekee wrote:
https://medium.com/@tomaspueyo/coronavirus-the-hammer-and-the-dance-be9337092b56
What the Next 18 Months Can Look Like, if Leaders Buy Us Time


"Do you notice something weird about this list of countries? Outside of China and Iran, which have suffered massive, undeniable outbreaks, and Brazil and Malaysia, every single country in this list is among the wealthiest in the world.
Do you think this virus targets rich countries? Or is it more likely that rich countries are better able to identify the virus?"

That's what I've been saying for a long time, but some idiot tried to argue with me that Africa is safe because of their warm weather. And then tried to imply that their governments can't suppress the real data. Yeah, right... let's all pretend that Russia hasn't done that, and that many countries don't have a long history of doing that. Don't bother picking up a history book when you can get your information from viral posts on social media.


Well, people from rich countries travel more.


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Syd
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23 Mar 2020, 2:09 pm

underwater wrote:
Well, people from rich countries travel more.


Exactly, which is why I also made the point that popular tourist destinations are vulnerable, and why Europe and the U.S. got hit so badly. And looking at the areas of the U.S., the urban areas and cities with a lot of travelers are generally going to be hit the hardest. NYC is the most densely populated, so it was an obvious target, but Florida may be the next "hot spot" largely due to their high amount of tourism and elderly population.



Karamazov
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23 Mar 2020, 2:11 pm

domineekee wrote:
https://medium.com/@tomaspueyo/coronavirus-the-hammer-and-the-dance-be9337092b56
What the Next 18 Months Can Look Like, if Leaders Buy Us Time


Thanks for that: an interesting read, simultaneously both alarming and heartening.

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And @Ezra & @Darmok: could you please take a look at magz’ thread in PPR on what does, and does not help an ailing economy recover.
In that thread she’s been accused of being a blinkered free-market fundamentalist!
I think the truth is she is a pragmatist who is attempting to recommend what she genuinely and sincerely believes is in your country’s best interest at this point in time.

I would also proffer for your consideration the fact that the Cold War ended almost thirty years ago, we are no longer in a situation where there is a titanic global battle between Capitalism & Communism: the hardcore defence of the first, vital at the time, is no longer necessary.
Fight today’s battles: not yesterday’s.

PS
I like you both, you’re great witty guys who have both brought me close to soiling myself with mirth: I intend no fundamental criticism of either you as individual people, or of your country and it’s values for that matter.



Sahn
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23 Mar 2020, 2:17 pm

Syd wrote:
domineekee wrote:
https://medium.com/@tomaspueyo/coronavirus-the-hammer-and-the-dance-be9337092b56
What the Next 18 Months Can Look Like, if Leaders Buy Us Time


"Do you notice something weird about this list of countries? Outside of China and Iran, which have suffered massive, undeniable outbreaks, and Brazil and Malaysia, every single country in this list is among the wealthiest in the world.
Do you think this virus targets rich countries? Or is it more likely that rich countries are better able to identify the virus?"

That's what I've been saying for a long time, but some idiot tried to argue with me that Africa is safe because of their warm weather. And then tried to imply that their governments can't suppress the real data. Yeah, right... let's all pretend that Russia hasn't done that, and that many countries don't have a long history of doing that. Don't bother picking up a history book when you can get your information from viral posts on social media.


the person who posted me this article was in South Africa in January, they got a cold, just a runny nose at first but it didn't go away, it moved down to his chest and for the first time in his life he was wheezing for two weeks. The runny nose stopped but he lost his sense of smell for a while, which I believe is one of the symptoms. He said he was really ill and believes he may have already had the virus, way back then. :shrug:



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23 Mar 2020, 2:23 pm

:heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :compress: :shaking2:


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Sahn
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23 Mar 2020, 2:24 pm

Karamazov wrote:
domineekee wrote:
https://medium.com/@tomaspueyo/coronavirus-the-hammer-and-the-dance-be9337092b56
What the Next 18 Months Can Look Like, if Leaders Buy Us Time


Thanks for that: an interesting read, simultaneously both alarming and heartening.


Thanks for reading. I'm not good at analysing data but I think it backs up some of the arguments that eikonabridge has been trying to make.

Edit: Note that the figures are only hypothetical! 8O . Lots of pretty graphs and projections though :D



Last edited by Sahn on 23 Mar 2020, 2:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

kraftiekortie
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23 Mar 2020, 2:31 pm

New York has over 20,000 cases, over 5,000 more than yesterday.

NYC has more than half of these cases—over 12,000 as of 9:30 AM, with 99 deaths. NYC is one of the tourist meccas of the world.



Karamazov
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23 Mar 2020, 2:36 pm

domineekee wrote:
Karamazov wrote:
domineekee wrote:
https://medium.com/@tomaspueyo/coronavirus-the-hammer-and-the-dance-be9337092b56
What the Next 18 Months Can Look Like, if Leaders Buy Us Time


Thanks for that: an interesting read, simultaneously both alarming and heartening.


Thanks for reading. I'm not good at analysing data but I think it backs up some of the arguments that eikonabridge has been trying to make.


Yeah: I’ve only been following this thread intermittently (avoiding undue anxiety buildup) so I’m not 100% au fait with who has and hasn’t been arguing in favour/disfavour of the various propositions...
but it does look, from that presentation, like in the absence of the deep penetration of hi-tech infrastructure lockdown is the least worst option, and that it doesn’t need to be as long as feared if done with sufficient severity.
Hopefully our PM will be informed of this or something like it soon: he does seem to be showing the capacity to change course when confronted with relevant data.