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It IS Richard III: scientists find 15th century king's body

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PantheraTigris
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08 Feb 2013, 3:09 am

Though I am an anti-monarchist, I have a soft spot for Richard, he's my favourite monarch. He was intelligent, he reformed certain parts of the legal system and Shakespeare did a good job spreading propaganda about him.



persian85033
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08 Feb 2013, 8:49 am

Sylkat wrote:
The princes were last seen in the Tower in the summer of 1483.
The two missing princes' bodies/skeletons were found under a stone staircase in the tower in 1674.
In 1933, the bones were examined, and declared to be the remains of the princes.
The bones were placed in an urn, given a funeral, and the urn placed in Westminster Abbey.

February 7, 2013, 12 noon, an official announcement was made that, in accordance with the wishes of Queen Elizabeth and the Church of England, the bones will NOT be given DNA tests to determine their actual lineage.

I personally believe that this is the wrong decision.
The two children, whoever they are, deserve to be known/identified once and for all.

Sylkat


Of course, I would never disagree or criticize Her Majesty, but I do agree the bones should be given dna tests, not only to see if they are the princes, but also if they could see how they died.



Cornflake wrote:
persian85033 wrote:
True, he was very popular, until people began to suspect he'd murdered his nephews.
You might find this (and the rest of the site) interesting - I certainly did. :wink:
http://www.richardiii.net/2_5_0_riii_co ... hp#princes


Thanks. It's quite a neat site.


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visagrunt
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08 Feb 2013, 12:29 pm

Sylkat wrote:
The two children, whoever they are, deserve to be known/identified once and for all.

Sylkat


To what end?

If they can be identified as the Princes, or if the tests are inconclusive, then nothing will have changed from the 1933 determination.

On the other hand, if they are rule out, then that will provide no basis on which to make any other identification.

I suggest that the Queen and the Church have made the correct decision. Allow the remains to lie at peace unless there is an affirmative reason to disinter them.


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xenon13
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08 Feb 2013, 8:03 pm

He had no reason to murder the two princes as they were officially out of the running after the Edward IV-Woodville marriage was voided. I suppose it was always possible that enemies would rally around them as the "rightful" ones though they'd have to reverse the decision to void the marriage.



PantheraTigris
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13 Feb 2013, 3:03 pm

Agreed. It was probably Buckingham who murdered them. He had more motive.



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13 Feb 2013, 7:16 pm

PantheraTigris wrote:
Agreed. It was probably Buckingham who murdered them. He had more motive.

In the Ian McClellan version of Richard III, they had chosen an actor to play Buckingham who was a dead ringer for Hermann Goering.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



persian85033
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14 Feb 2013, 1:55 pm

xenon13 wrote:
He had no reason to murder the two princes as they were officially out of the running after the Edward IV-Woodville marriage was voided. I suppose it was always possible that enemies would rally around them as the "rightful" ones though they'd have to reverse the decision to void the marriage.


It's very possible that was what he was afraid of. I think it's most possible that Richard killed them or on his orders. It makes sense to me. The head that wears the crown certainly lies uneasy, especially then. Although it was under torture, supposedly Tyrell admitted he had murdered them on Richard's orders. Though even if that was true, I don't know how much it would count, since it was under torture. For Buckingham, well, he did have a claim, but Richard had a son, and he also had nephews, like the Earl of Lincoln.

I don't know if anyone else has read any of her books, but I highly recomend The Princes in the Tower by Alison Weir. This and the other books I've read by her have been pretty good. I can't wait until the one she's writing on Elizabeth of York comes out this next autumn.


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Sylkat
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18 Feb 2013, 5:47 am

Buckingham was a manipulative sneak, actually.

An ambitious, manipulative sneak.

Sylkat



MDShinobi
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18 Feb 2013, 8:43 am

Tequila wrote:
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It IS Richard III: Scientists reveal DNA results confirm 15th century king's body has been found under a car park in Leicester
  • University of Leicester academics unveil their findings at press conference
  • DNA sample matches that of a descendant of the king's maternal line
  • Skeleton's spinal curvature also matched accounts of the humpback king
  • Remains were uncovered by archaeologists at former church in Leicester
  • Historical records say he was taken to the city after he was killed in 1485
Human remains found buried beneath a social services car park in Leicester are those of Richard III, scientists confirmed today.

In an extraordinary discovery which rewrites the history books, the skeleton was identified by DNA analysis after researchers traced one of the king’s descendants.

Newly-released pictures of the remains show a distinctive curvature of the spine synonymous with the last Plantagenet king since Shakespeare immortalised him in one of his most famous works.

That's positively fascinating! I wonder just how many people walked right over him without even knowing. Makes me wonder what I don't know about my own surroundings. XD


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