Parent of shooting spree victim pleads to NRA

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Those "simple changes" in regulation are an attack on lawful gun ownership whether or not you can admit it, they make no difference on the rate of violent crime or the statistically insignificant spree killers that the gun control lobby throws a fit over. There is no more regulation needed, the 2nd Amendment is clear that the right keep and bare arms shall not be infringed. Period. There is no discussion or debate needed.

Yeah, yeah, puppet Reagan. As if he would have a chance in hell of being elected dogcatcher in todays political climate.

the gun culture takes any criticism of guns to be personal attacks. add this to the list of things that polite people don't discuss in mixed company. and dox, I reserve the right to dislike anybody that wants to make life harder for me. so far only the republicans have been doing this, and for you to deny this is just playing head games with me in the manner of pissing on my leg and then telling me it's only raining. it just isn't very nice. I will not shut up about it either, despite your veiled threat. I thought you were a friend.

The number of guns in the hands of private citizens is growing faster than weeds in a landfill and it is not stopping these shooting sprees from happening. More guns are not the answer. It never will be. It will only drag us to the point of being like a third world country with people walking around carrying weapons everywhere they go. And why? Why is it necessary for everyone to be walking around carrying a gun? Do you consider that a "civilized society?" I don't.

The 2nd Amendment is clear on only one thing "A well regulated militia" That is the part of the 2nd Amendment that gun rights advocates routinely ignore.

In this never-ending loop of a debate, my mind flashes back to a line in "The Godfather", in a scene where Sonny arranges for a gun to be hidden in a place Michael can get it: "Hey, listen, I want somebody good - and I mean very good - to plant that gun. I don't want my brother coming out of that toilet with just his dick in his hands, alright?"

If, God forbid, circumstances arise where one needs a gun...well, nothing else will do.

"Buy a shotgun! Buy a shotgun!" -- Joe Biden, Vice President of the United States and NRA spokesman

"What do you actually know about the gun industry? Seriously, what? I have firsthand experience"

I get it. You are an expert on everything guns. Noone can have an opinion on the topic because you know everything. Aside from having been a medical statistician and dealing with statistics like the people who are treated in hospitals and doctors offices, and understanding CDC and FBI statistics on gun violence. I see how the gun industry pay politicians to block studies on these statistics that would show the public the actual damage that guns are doing to our culture. Other than working in hospital emergency rooms in whatever capacity and seeing the victims of giun violence, talking with them, touching their wounds and blood. I have no understanding of gun violence in America. Having seen people have their heads blown off in front of my own eyes and having the barrels of multiple firearms shoved against my nostrils so that I can smell the oil in the barrel and the metal as it is shoved against my skin. Aside from being shot at myself from close range by idiot drunks....

No, I have no experience with anything having to do woith guns or gun violence.

You are the expert. You have "firsthand" experience".

I guess I know nothing, so I should just shut up.

Sorry, Dox, but you don't care about human suffering. You don't know anything about human suffering, especially if you think putting more guns in the hands of more people is going to make America safer. It won't. It never will.

The constitution was written as a restriction on the federal government, not on the people. A well regulated militia in 18th century terms means well equipped and trained not regulated in the modern sense by the government. Militias were made up individuals. The spirit of 2nd amendment was defend against tyranny so the meaning is pretty obvious when looked at thru that lens. Basically the government isn't suppose to infringe on peoples right to form a "well regulated" militia, the right to keep and bare arms being essential to that.

The amount of guns in this country has gone up while violent crime has gone down, we're safer now than we were during the AWB under Clinton. Those are facts, I suppose you can look at that one of two ways.

I have had a shotgun stuck against my nose. 3 times. And I still don't own a gun. And I don't own a gun BECAUSE I have had a shotgun stuck against my nose 3 times

But in all seriousness. Nobody else thinks it's ****ed up that the store owner and staff are cleaning the mess up.... After THEIR store was shot up while THEY were in it? o.O Sod the gun debate! What about a labor debate?!

There are no facts to prove that gun violence has gone down because gun ownership has gone up. There are more factors than that to be considered and you know it.

It must be pretty convenient to just interpret things to suit your agenda.

Interesting response to your own post.

'But I don't necessarily disagree that violent crime is a lot more complicated than simply access to guns, I think it is primarily driven by societal factors. Restricting gun ownership doesn't make you any safer, it can mean the contrary since criminals already don't heed to the law so you are punishing law abiding gun owners by these regulations. Too much attention is given to these spree killers, it feels closer to home for white suburbanites than the war zones that are our nation's poor inner cities. If you want to reduce the violence then maybe you should look more at poverty and the war on drugs.

Guns in our society are great equalizers, because of them people who are vulnerable or weak can contend with the strong, whom would otherwise hold their power over them. Because of them an old man who would otherwise be unable to defend himself from stronger, more fit people can now defend himself, a woman living alone will be able to protect herself from perverts looking for an isolated victim, and other people otherwise physically impaired can have the means to protect themselves.

Especially considering how big the U.S is and how remote some places tend to be, you cannot rely on law enforcement to protect you and your family. This world is full of rooving marauders looking for easy pickings, guns ensure that there are no easy pickings, so its a loss for the bad guys, a massive one.

Best society can do is restrict their access from mentally ill people, but for as long as they give the capacity for families and weak people to defend themselves, I will always be a proponent of the second amendment. One of the best ways to protect good people in this world is to give them the capacity to do so.

The restrictions people are most interested in are those aimed at trying to restrict the access to guns by felons or people with a history of domestic violence. The NRA and gun lobby want to stop any registration which could prevent "bad people" from getting guns by saying that any regulations or registration processes are an infringement on the rights of all gun owners. They will not bend an inch. They don't care who gets access to guns or how they get the guns. The NRA views any and every attempt to track guns, limit access to guns or make guns safer as some kind of infringement. You cannot use the "slippery slope argument" for everything There have to be concessions. And this lie of propaganda that the government wants to confiscate all guns is not helping anything at all. I would like there to be some way to restrict people like me from ever having access to guns, by doing whatever it takes. The NRA talks about people with mental problems being part of the problem but even the NRA would fight against any regulation that would prohibit someone like me from buying a gun. We cannot address these problems with obstructionist mentality like that.

I will be the first person to agree that poverty breeds crime but noone wants to touch the issue of poverty. Poor people are the enemy of capitalism.

Noone will ever agree on the interpretation of the 2nd Amendment, or the reason it is in the Bill of Rights at all. I believe it was put into the Bill of Rights for the purpose of making sure slave owners had the right to access weapons in order to protect their investment in slaves and that the law was written for that reason more than having anything to do with government overreach, but at least I recognize that people today will interpret documents from those days only to benefit their current ideology. There are too many people who will say that papers from those days mean exactly what they want them to mean. I may not be capable of eloquently making myself clear, because I am passionate about this issue, but it is not like people here want to interpret my words. I really dont care how many guns anyone has, only that they understand clearly their own motives and reasoning instead of quoting me a bunch of numbers and "facts" I know to be false and misleading. I may be a lot of things but integrity is important to me and I will not lie and distort to win my point the way some people will.

I will agree only to the point of saying that the danger of these things happening that you list above are greatly exaggerated. Take the stand your ground laws. To me, these laws are only excuses for cowards to murder people over mere disagreements instead of learning how to resolve issues like civilized human beings. People dont even try anymore. People are mentally lazy and perceive "threats" when and where it meets their agenda.

I mentioned before about me having people shove shotguns up my nose on three separate occasions. None of these incidents had anything to do with threats or violence. I have never hit anyone and I don't curse. These were just differences of opinions with cowards who decided to pull out a gun and hide behind it rather than agree to disagree. Stand your ground laws empower people like this. It wasnt criminals trying to rob me or steal my tv or car. Simple disagreements turned potentially deadly just because human beings don't know how to communicate, or are unwilling to communicate. This is why I dislike guns. I didnt wait til later and go after them with a gun. I just let it go, looking at them as cowards. I have learned that if you give a coward access to a gun he will misuse it and abuse it. I just think we would find a way to make sure that people like that and people like me cannot own guns. The NRA and gun lobby would rather bad people get their hands on guns and kill people than keeping guns out of the hands of bad people by whatever means possible. The NRA and gun lobby would rather see street justice at any cost to human life rather than impose any restrictions on access at all. Collateral damage as they say.

How would you feel if your "friends" insulted you, directly and indirectly, for years on end? What am I supposed to make of that? My only "threat" is that I'm going to start treating you like everyone else if you continue to insult me, I've given you a pass on things I wouldn't let go from anyone else, but my patience is at an end. I can't help it if you think that I'm playing "head games" by arguing with you in the same manner I argue with everyone else and taking the same positions I usually do, that's the very definition of fairness and consistency, but if you want to see it as something it's not, that's on you. You take this "enlightened" pseudo-spiritual position of superiority and mumble on about karmic retribution and how we'll get ours in the next life, which, let's face it, is pretty passive aggressive, and downright hypocritical when you look at how judgmental you are. You want to take potshots and act condescending? Don't be surprised when you get the same in return, think of it as your karma.