I feel more hurt by Robin Williams than terrorism (9/11 etc)

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Sweetleaf
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15 Aug 2014, 3:00 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
The people who died in the World Trade Center on 9/11 were innocent victims of a plane attack, period.

At most, they were pawns of those who advocate "corporate greed, "American imperialism," "capitalism," "Western decadence," etc.

Just like civilians in all wars: mostly innocent victims who do not want war in the first place.


But innocent of what?....there is no way of knowing that particular detail in an event where a mass amount of people die, also since innocent, to me that would imply someone who has not wronged anyone else. Point is some of them could have been very kind people, some of them could have been real jerks I guess I see it more as unarmed/defenseless people since they aren't prepared or armed for such a thing to take place....but no real way to know all of their level of innocence.

I mean is it that one has to be 'innocent' to be a victim....or am I just being autistic and taking things far to litterally, deconstructing it and over-analizing it?


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Sweetleaf
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15 Aug 2014, 3:07 pm

modernmax wrote:

There were a lot of people, including children, that were just visiting and had nothing with that "corporate greed", I'm sure out of that many people a few weren't entirely innocent. Out of the millions of Jews Hitler killed there were probably quite a few bad people in them. So I guess Hitler was ok because they weren't all innocent, and so were the terrorists because they got rid of greedy businessmen that were stealing from America, right?


I lost you at 'I guess hitler was ok'.....

How does questioning whether or not every single individual would fit what I'd consider 'innocent' imply I think it was ok for terrorists to crash the plane in.....And don't get where on earth you get that I'd say hitler's ok just because some people that where killed might have been bad people. Also even if the terrorists did get some greedy businessmen out to hurt others....it hardly makes up for all the people that where not like that at all who where killed, and well I don't even wish death on everyone who's done wrong especially via explosions, fire and jumping out windows to escape those.


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Last edited by Sweetleaf on 15 Aug 2014, 7:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

modernmax
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15 Aug 2014, 6:16 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
modernmax wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
modernmax wrote:
I don't see how the death of a celebrity, no matter how great he was, is more tragic than a foreign attack directly on our country and our people that killed 3,000 innocent civilians. But if that's what hurts you more, then that's what hurts you more. Can't really do much to change it.


I know I might get crap for this one, but I sometimes wonder just how 'innocent' all of those civilians where....I mean it was the world trade center, which is related to the corporate world and all its corruption and what not, so I am not so sure everyone there was innocent of ever helping to screw anyone over or what not since its corporate. BUt then I don't know as I never knew anything about them. Guess I never like the assumption that everyone killed in that tragedy was an 'innocent' person who never hurt a fly...not saying they all deserved it as that would be kinda heartless but I suppose for me to use the blanket term innocent civilians.....it would have to be a bunch of toddlers killed or something.

Also not sure the OP is saying its more tragic, seems more they are just saying they noticed it upsetting them more than 9-11, which people can't exactly help how they feel about something .


There were a lot of people, including children, that were just visiting and had nothing with that "corporate greed", I'm sure out of that many people a few weren't entirely innocent. Out of the millions of Jews Hitler killed there were probably quite a few bad people in them. So I guess Hitler was ok because they weren't all innocent, and so were the terrorists because they got rid of greedy businessmen that were stealing from America, right?


I lost you at 'I guess hitler was ok'.....

How does questioning whether or not every single individual would fit what I'd consider 'innocent' imply I think it was ok for terrorists to crash the plane in.....And don't get where on earth you get that I'd say hitler's ok just because some people that where killed might have been bad people. Also even if the terrorists did get some greedy businessmen out to hurt others....it hardly makes up for all the people that where not like that at all who where killed, and well I don't even wish death on everyone who's done wrong especially via explosions, fire and jumping out windows to escape those.


Then what was the point in saying you wonder how innocent those people were? I guess that is just a blanket term for the people who died on 9/11. So instead we should just say, more accurately, that "many innocent civilians, some thieves, possibly a few murderers, and a rapist or two were killed in the WTC attack". Does that sound better to you, since it includes the "not so good" people too?


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Sweetleaf
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15 Aug 2014, 7:13 pm

modernmax wrote:

Then what was the point in saying you wonder how innocent those people were? I guess that is just a blanket term for the people who died on 9/11. So instead we should just say, more accurately, that "many innocent civilians, some thieves, possibly a few murderers, and a rapist or two were killed in the WTC attack". Does that sound better to you, since it includes the "not so good" people too?


I guess the point was I know nothing about any of those people, including their level of innocence, so i cannot assume they where all what I would describe as 'innocent' individuals.....so to me it is confusing when the assumptoin is always made when a ton of people die that they where all 'innocent' across the board. Aside from that civilian already implies all kinds of various people with the implication they are largely unarmed and not involved in warfare.

Also why not just '(insert #) of civilians where killed in this incident'...it would just make more sense to me, but I don't expect everyone to alter their wording....people will continue saying innocent civilians and I will likely remain confused about it.


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15 Aug 2014, 8:03 pm

At first I was revolted at the title of this thread. After all, something like 3,000 people died that day. Robin was a likable, funny man. One loss is more important than 3,000 ???

Many years ago there was a moving tribute written to a comedian who had died. It said that we feel sadder when a funny man dies than when a serious actor dies. After all, we've seen the serious actor suffer and die do many times during their career. But the comedian always seemed to cheat death, and somehow win out at the end. We may admire the serious actor, but we feel closer to the comedian. He reminds us of a favorite Uncle, or perhaps our Father. He made us laugh, tickled us, even when the jokes sometimes were getting a bit old. So when he passes we wish he had made one more funny movie, told us one last joke, somehow propped himself up on his deathbed and done one more punchline.

None of us knew Robin. Knew what was troubling him. No one may ever know that. But ASpies are more than a bit child-like, so perhaps we look upon him as a favorite Uncle, and as they say "one death is a tragedy, three thousand are statistics."


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16 Aug 2014, 8:55 am

I was more shocked by 9/11. I was sad and scared over the plane being shot over Ukraine. I didn't know those people. My empathy doesn't stretch out that far. But when I like an actor, musician or artist that shares themselves by any other means I feel I build a connection to them, whether fantasized or real.

Robin wasn't a favourite actor but I still would see movies just because he was in them. I feel a bit selfish because I don't want him to be dead because I want him to make more movies.

I've read a lot of articles about his death lately and it seems a symptom early in the development of Parkinson's is depression and it's even a symptom of heart surgery. I'm not sure if he had bipolar but his drug addiction could have mimicked the highs and lows of bipolar.

I did see him as a father figure so I guess Prof is onto something.

He wasn't diagnosed or receiving treatment for anything and I remember how confused I was before my diagnosis. It's so much harder to fight or come up with coping mechanisms when you don't know what's going on.

One thing I keep reading a lot about is how cocaine calmed him down which is common in ADHD. But it seems he was going through a really hard time, became extremely depressed and decided enough was enough. I'm going to miss him.


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