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Magneto
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26 Nov 2014, 1:01 pm

D'oh! Of course, momentum... :oops:

Still, I think there needs to be more research into less-lethal weaponry, like beanbag guns, and more use of them.



Woodpecker
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26 Nov 2014, 2:54 pm

eric76 wrote:
Magneto wrote:
As well as a high chance of survival for the individual shot, I believe? You're not very likely to hit the heart, so as long as medical attention is prompt, they should survive...

Though I think there needs to be a lot more focus on less-lethal weapons. The aim, after all, is to knock the target down and incapacitate them, not to kill them. Perhaps arming the police with rubber bullets would be a good idea? As long as it has enough force to knock them on their back without killing them, even if it does break a few ribs...


Being hit with a rubber bullet isn't going to knock anyone much bigger than a housecat on their back. They might happen to fall backwards, but the part about being knocked backwards by a shot is nothing more than theatrical portrayals.

If being hit by a bullet was enough to knock the person on the back like we see on tv, it would likely do very serious damage to anyone firing the bullet. The bullet is not going to pick up great multiples of momentum between the firearm and the target.


Well I am glad that someone paid attention during their physics lessons at school, this sounds like something from Newtons laws of motion.


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Magneto
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26 Nov 2014, 3:04 pm

Unless we use a missile, rather than a bullet... 8)



Dillogic
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26 Nov 2014, 6:36 pm

Sucky situation; you can see it at 12 seconds. Police pull up and start to get out, kid looks like he's going for the pistol, and there you go. Over in seconds.



Jacoby
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26 Nov 2014, 7:25 pm

Dillogic wrote:
Sucky situation; you can see it at 12 seconds. Police pull up and start to get out, kid looks like he's going for the pistol, and there you go. Over in seconds.




that's not okay, sorry

i'm tired of all these jittery punk cops acting like they're in Fallujah



Dillogic
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26 Nov 2014, 7:31 pm

Jacoby wrote:
that's not okay, sorry

i'm tired of all these jittery punk cops acting like they're in Fallujah


Perhaps, perhaps not.

This seems like it needs to be taken in the context of the whole incident; what brought the police there, what they said to him (they were supposedly talking to him via the loudspeaker), and what the police assumed.

Though with saying that, it looked like the kid was drawing from my eyes, and I'd assume that's what was happening if I gave orders to surrender/hands up.



eric76
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26 Nov 2014, 11:48 pm

Dillogic wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
that's not okay, sorry

i'm tired of all these jittery punk cops acting like they're in Fallujah


Perhaps, perhaps not.

This seems like it needs to be taken in the context of the whole incident; what brought the police there, what they said to him (they were supposedly talking to him via the loudspeaker), and what the police assumed.

Though with saying that, it looked like the kid was drawing from my eyes, and I'd assume that's what was happening if I gave orders to surrender/hands up.


My understanding is that the police were dispatched to the location based on some number of reports of someone pointing a firearm at people.



ksf777
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27 Nov 2014, 12:04 am

If anyone expresses a middle ground on these polarizing topics the politically left and right will tear you apart.



Dillogic
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27 Nov 2014, 4:28 am

ksf777 wrote:
If anyone expresses a middle ground on these polarizing topics the politically left and right will tear you apart.


Just go with the evidence, grasshopper.

Opinions and beliefs are just that.



androbot01
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27 Nov 2014, 7:39 am

Wow! That was fast. It seems that the cops were scared. They shot him and they were still too scared to get close to him. Understandable I suppose.
I still think it could have been a case of suicide by cop.



Dillogic
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27 Nov 2014, 8:05 am

androbot01 wrote:
Wow! That was fast.


Most self-defense situations are over in a few seconds. It's pretty much "do or die" if you intend to survive them.



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27 Nov 2014, 9:35 am

I think this was a bad shoot. If someone is not holding a gun( in the waistband), and they are told to drop it, it stands to reason they have to grab it before they can drop it. In my opinion there wasn't enough time between the cop getting out of the car and the boy getting shot.



eric76
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27 Nov 2014, 10:25 am

staremaster wrote:
I think this was a bad shoot. If someone is not holding a gun( in the waistband), and they are told to drop it, it stands to reason they have to grab it before they can drop it. In my opinion there wasn't enough time between the cop getting out of the car and the boy getting shot.


If the officer was going to have them take the firearm out and drop it, would they tell him to pull it out and drop it or would they have him pull it out in a way that would make it more difficult to turn the firearm on them. For example, pull it out with the wrong hand and only with two fingers on the handle. They wouldn't want him to pull it out in such a way that he could point it at them and shoot them.

I assume that they would more likely have him put his hands above his head and one officer cuff first one wrist and then the other while his partner keeps him covered in case he tries to reach for the firearm.



androbot01
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27 Nov 2014, 3:05 pm

I watched it again and the kid does seem to be pointing in the direction of the car. But what I don't get is why the car had to come in so fast like that. They had him in their sights, they could have watched for a bit to see what he did. They seemed to be in a hurry to kill him.



trollcatman
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27 Nov 2014, 3:40 pm

Don't they have a better protocol when they hear about children with guns? Rushing in with guns doesn't seem like a good idea when just about every young boy has toy guns at some point in their life. When 1% of the kids with guns has a real one, shooting first doesn't sound like such a good idea (and yeah, I made up the number).