150 dead after Germanwings jet crashes in the French Alps

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trollcatman
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26 Mar 2015, 10:04 am

Bondkatten wrote:

trollcatman wrote:

Ah, katten is Dutch for cats (plural). Bontkatten (with t) would mean something like "cats used for fur", which is fortunately not the meaning of bondkatten

At least cats always cheer me up.

De kat krabt de krullen van de trap

My boyfriend is from the Netherlands , so I understand a little Dutch, One day I will attempt to learn it properly...I hope

I can agree completely with your statement about cats cheering one up

Liesje leerde Lotje lopen langs de lange lindenlaan, maar toen Lotje niet wilde lopen liet Liesje Lotje staan.

I know some Dutch people move to Sweden for university, because it's cheaper than at home, especially if you have already completed (or failed) one university course. That is because the politicians are as cheap as the general population. I remember years ago the Swedish krone would fit inside shopping carts that required 1 Dutch guilder, and people would use the krone because it was worth less, even though they would get it back when returning the cart, hoping they could "trade" their cart with the krone in it for 1 guilder :cry:

trollcatman
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26 Mar 2015, 10:10 am

Adamantium wrote:

Fnord wrote:

We've made planes safer from terrorists posing as passengers and taking over. Now we have to make the pilots safer, and prevent them from deviating from the flight plan.

No, pilots must always be able to deviate from the flight plan. There are a huge range of contingencies in which it is necessary and normal to deviate from the flight plan. What they need to do is safegaurd against this specific problem.

Under FAA rules, this would not have happened because the guy would never have been alone on the flight deck. Or, to be more precise, he would have had to incapacitate the other person on the flight deck before commandeering the aircraft and using it as a suicide device and the need to assault a member of the crew is likely to have a higher inhibitory threshold than just pointing the nose down and waiting.

There are a number of cases of mass murder/suicide by pilot, including (in all likelihood) MH370, but not so many in the US.

Then what do they do for toilet breaks? Let some other personnel in to replace the pilot?

Adamantium
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26 Mar 2015, 10:22 am

trollcatman wrote:

Adamantium wrote:

Fnord wrote:

We've made planes safer from terrorists posing as passengers and taking over. Now we have to make the pilots safer, and prevent them from deviating from the flight plan.

Then what do they do for toilet breaks? Let some other personnel in to replace the pilot?

Correct.

The point is not to have a second qualified pilot on the flight deck when not required for safety, but to prevent one pilot from being alone on the flight deck to prevent this kind of thing and other problems (sole pilot has an aneurysm, stroke, heart attack, etc.) In the US this is often a stewardess.

The BBC reported at 14:51 today:

Quote:

Low-cost airline Norwegian Air Shuttle will now require two people to be in the cockpit at all times for safety reasons. "When one person leaves the cockpit, two people will now have to be there," its director of operations is quoted as saying by AFP news agency.

They got the message and are adopting the rules the US put in place after 9/11. I don't understand why Europe was in denial about the need for this.

trollcatman
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26 Mar 2015, 10:43 am

^^^ Especially after MH370. That's more or less a year ago, you'd expect them to prevent things like this.

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26 Mar 2015, 12:10 pm

They just gave the pilot's name on CNN - Andreas Lubitz. So far, not sounding like someone of Middle Eastern origin.

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Jacoby
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26 Mar 2015, 12:26 pm

It appears to be pilot suicide, this might of been what happened with MAL370 too. The cockpit doors after 9/11 seem really unnecessary, its basically a bank vault.

Adamantium
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26 Mar 2015, 12:58 pm

Jacoby wrote:

The cockpit doors after 9/11 seem really unnecessary, its basically a bank vault.

I don't think this is a logical response to this tragedy.

The armored doors are designed to prevent another 9/11. That seems like a pretty good idea still.
What needs to go with them are simple rules to prevent one crewmember from commandeering the plane. US airlines already do this. You can be sure El Al does this an much more. Now some European airlines are joining the practice.

What happened on this flight is not a reason to make the flight deck vulnerable again.

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26 Mar 2015, 1:18 pm

Adamantium wrote:

Jacoby wrote:

The cockpit doors after 9/11 seem really unnecessary, its basically a bank vault.

Well now we have two planes that have gone down likely by pilot suicide where they locked the co-pilot out, these are extremely unlikely scenarios and plugging one vulnerability has opened up another. We are lucky that neither of these pilots decided to crash into a building or something, there was nothing stopping them from doing so and the Germanwings flight was actually something 10 minutes away from a nuclear power plant

Adamantium
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26 Mar 2015, 1:31 pm

Jacoby wrote:

Adamantium wrote:

Jacoby wrote:

The cockpit doors after 9/11 seem really unnecessary, its basically a bank vault.

None of the airlines in the post-9/11 pilot suicides followed the procedures the FAA introduced in the United States along with the new cockpit doors. It was clear at the time that precisely this kind of "unthinkable" scenario was considered by the FAA and this is why someone from the cabin crew has to take the place of a pilot who leaves the flight deck for some reason--no one is ever alone on the flight deck. It was irresponsible of the governing authorities elsewhere not to follow the FAA guidelines that came in with the new security doors and there is some shared responsibility there for the preventable deaths in these mass-murder/suicides by pilot.

ASPartOfMe
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26 Mar 2015, 1:57 pm

trollcatman wrote:

ASPartOfMe wrote:

I have suspected terrorist from when this first happened, maybe lone wolf

I think a terrorist would have flown it into a building (which he could do, because he was the co-pilot and could operate the plane) or at least made some statement before flying into that mountain. Seems more like a copycat suicide to me.

Could be copycat terrorism, France hit again. Lone wolves are often home grown so they won't necessarily have Muslim name. No message has been released that does not mean it has been found or it will be released. According to Bin Ladin 9/11 was done for economic reasons and that attack did hurt the airlines. You don't need to announce an attack for economic reasons.

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26 Mar 2015, 2:32 pm

Conspiracy grapevine says flight 370 (carrying employees of Freescale Semiconductor, makers of military microprocessors) was taken to US Military base Deigo Garcia in the Maldives, from whence a text message was received from one of the passengers several days after the plane disappeared, saying they were being held hostage. No word since, and no flight 370.

>>Hijack Of MH370<<

>>Flight 370 Passenger Sends MSG<<

Look at the passenger manifest. Who was on that plane that an intelligence agency might target for assassination? Don't kid yourself that they wouldn't murder a whole planeload of people to get one person, the CIA killed nearly a thousand at Jonestown.

Post-hypnotic suggestion and psychotropic drugs make a lovely Manchurian Cocktail.

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Kraichgauer
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26 Mar 2015, 5:46 pm

will@rd wrote:

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Huh? I'll say that again - - huh?

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26 Mar 2015, 6:02 pm

Maybe the guy who crashed the plane wanted to make a scene and make a mark on the world.

Even tho I don't condone it at all, he likely felt invisible and wanted to feel like someone; like he could make an impact.

Please don't hate me guys I am looking at this objectively. I don't think he should have done it.

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androbot01
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26 Mar 2015, 6:21 pm

Maybe someone did something like this and he couldn't take it anymore:

beneficii
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26 Mar 2015, 7:09 pm

It's disgusting that he took unwilling others with him.

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androbot01
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26 Mar 2015, 7:18 pm

It's amazing how vulnerable we let ourselves be so often. Relying on others not to do things like this.

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150 dead after Germanwings jet crashes in the French Alps