jeb! says we all need to work longer hours :|

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I've worked at places where they had comp time for overtime. They said they could not afford overtime, it was a small business. However, he was the cheapest SOB I've ever met. There were things that needed to be done and that I wanted to get done myself and I was the only one who could actually do them properly. I didn't have time to do them during my shift and I asked Harinam Singh if I could work overtime to do it. He said he couldn't afford to pay overtime. I told him pay me my straight wage on those hours and he said he couldn't it would be illegal and I could get pissed at him for something else and then go report that even though it was my idea, and he would get in trouble. I suggested comp time, which was me doing the stuff I wanted to get done and keeping track of the time and then taking time off while on the clock at a later date and getting paid for the time off the clock. He agreed and thats what I did. I have no problem with that. This was stuff that didn't actually need to get done, I just wanted it done because it bugged me.

That was during the year that my husband and I worked at this vegetarian restaurant that was attached to the health food store. Some of the stuff in the kitchen, while being perfectly safe,, just bugged me. If I was going to work there, by God I wanted it organized, pretty and looking nice. He agreed that it would be nice to have those things done, but he couldn't pay to do them and I tried to show him what I wanted and he was going to do it but he just made a mess out of it. His wife Harinam Kaur tried, and she was worse. She was the laziest and most out of it lady I ever met. She didn't care how neat and organized anything was, she cared if it felt "spiritually positive" and thank God that was before Feng Shui because she would have Feng Shui'd the crap in the fridge and every thing else and made it impossible for anybody to work there. She was nuts. All she cared about was yoga and any new age thing that anybody made up so she could buy into it, and all he cared about was his tennis game and Baywatch. Both were pretty lazy when it came to any sort of cleaning, etc. But then they had a maid at home. She once walked around all day holding a flashlight with a red bulb in it on top of her turban that was supposed to shine into her brain to stimulate her pituitary gland. How that barely shining red light was supposed to get through yards and yards of white cotton for the turban and feet and feet of long filthy unwashed hair (she told me her reason for rarely washing it but I can't remember, I do remember that when she took her turban off her head stank though) and through her skull and into her brain I have no idea. But that is the kind of idea that she really bought into and just loved and tried to force on everybody who worked there. No. I refused.

So anyway, I said I couldn't stand it without doing something to the storage room and the prep area and I was gonna come in there in the middle of the night and do it and do it for nothing if he didn't work something out for it, and he was so scared of getting in trouble with the labor board that he went along with the comp time. But some people will scam the s**t out of you to get you to work free or cheaper.

However, I don't blame bosses for trying to get as cheap labor as they can. The cheaper your people work, the more profit you make. But, I think it's good practice to pay good people more money so you can keep them. If you have no customers cause your service or product sucks then you have no profit at all.

IMHO there needs to be a system in place to JAIL employers who make their employees work for no compensation.

I don't have a problem with not paying interns. They have no experience at the particular job although they have a degree in it. They may work out very well and be hired on afterwards or they may really suck and not make money for anybody. They are also gaining experience so they have that on their resume when they go look for their first real job. Also, if they work out well you can always choose to pay them but you can't really choose to take away their salary once you have agreed to it. Not without probably getting sued or at least a big old hassle.

Also, some colleges require you to do an internship before they let you graduate with the degree, so you are getting something you need for your degree. Many times they may let somebody who doesn't suck but isn't great stay on and work to complete the internship but not pay them at all because they aren't actually contributing anything worth anything. I think that is doing something to help the person, especially if you tell them how they are screwing up.

My oldest daughter has to do an internship before she graduates so she can get her degree and be an actual chef. She found one at the German bakery. The lady told her that she would let her know in a few weeks if she would pay her or not, and that she sometimes does pay people. My daughter gave her the bank info because she does direct deposit and then forgot about it. After a few weeks she went to the bank to deposit some money that her fiance gave her and she was totally floored that the lady had paid her and not mentioned it to her. Well, she may have mentioned it - she's not that great at English and my daughter is very quiet and shy and feels bad asking her over and over to repeat things.

Also, internships and volunteer work are great ways to get into a job you have no experience at or knowledge of really, but just want to learn how to do it. That is how I got the job at the funeral home. I was interested in it and wanted to learn about it. I wasn't going to school for it or anything so I wasn't doing an apprenticeship but I asked if I could come work for free anyway because I was interested in maybe doing that eventually. At first they had me just answering phones because it was still run by old Mr Oscar who was in his 70's and thought ladies had no place in the prep room. He kind of always thought that but the boys would let me in and teach me and let me help when Mr Oscar wasn't there. He wasn't there much as it was, so that was good. As long as I played little miss perfect lady who knew her place, Mr Oscar was happy with me and started paying me. He thought I was just the secretary and when he was there, I was. But when he was gone I was doing the work of an apprentice because the boys taught me.

it's the same at the vets office. I started working there because I needed cash since my husband was laid off because of the first Gulf War. I didn't start working for free but I started as an assistant to the vet. My job was to help him during exams and such and assist in surgery. I had a medical background and was perfect for that but I didn't have training and hadn't been to school for it so when they needed a vet tech to do some of the actual medical work they were going to advertise for one. It paid a good bit more too and I wanted it. I said let me do it for a month and you teach me and still pay me the same thing and lets see if I can learn it. He said OK and thats what we did. At the end of two months (one month learning and one month working at it on my own and asking for help when I needed it but that wasn't too often) they gave me the tech salary. The tech job was a lot more involved. I did workups which were exams and also diagnosed and treated minor stuff. I did procedures like tooth cleaning, ears crops, neuters on dogs and cats, cat spays, hematoma's and several other minor surgeries. If it was something we did fairly often and wasn't very, very delicate then he would teach me while I assisted him and then he would watch and assist me a few times and then he'd let me do it myself. I did all this plus the regular stuff I did as his assistant which was give shots, start IV's, draw blood, do the actual lab tests, etc. Stuff that was below a tech but above kennel help. I didn't need another person there to do that so I saved them some money by doing both jobs and I got a salary increase too - I didn't get both salaries but I got a good bit more than I was making. I did the surgeries and stuff under the vet's license. I had no idea it was legal for people to do that, but it was. Of course we NEVER EVER let the owners know that anybody but the vet was doing anything to their pets, but nobody ever asked. They all assume it's the vet that does it. If he didn't trust me and believe I knew what I was doing, he never would have let me do it. That was his job and his license and his liveliehood that was on the line there and he made sure I could do it before he turned me loose. I appreciate the fact that he taught me and trusted me. He said I should go to vet school but I had no interest in that and he knew it. I just needed to work until my husband was able to find another job and then I was going back home. If I hadn't offered to do it for less money then I never would have gotten that chance. The same with the funeral home. If I hadn't offered to do it for free I wouldn't ever have gotten my foot in the door. It was almost impossible down here back then for a lady to be an undertaker. It wasn't considered proper and there are still many funeral parlors that won't let a lady work a funeral even if they let her do the embalming. They want men to do it.

So working for nothing can sometimes be the best thing you could possibly do because it works into much more money later on and also it gives you a chance to lern about something you are very interested in.

Why? That isn't criminal.

slavery is at least technically illegal, "involuntary servitude" and all that.

Sorry for the confusion. Both my post and the preceding similar one by Fnord were sarcastic quotes from Charles Dicken's "A Christmas Carol". They were statements made by Mr. Scrooge.

i believe the point of this statement is that it should be criminalized under law.

do you mean to say that it is not morally criminal?

There are some employers who make unskilled, hourly laborers work unpaid off the clock under threat of losing their job.

Which, imho, is criminal, and those employers should spend a day in prison for every hour they made someone work off the clock.

Last edited by blauSamstag on 09 Jul 2015, 6:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Yeah, working longer hours at a crappy low paying job does wonders for hope.

@OliveOilMom
I'm well aware of what employers are doing...
My cousin a few years back quit his only internship, because they kept expanding his job duties to the point of having him stuff that required a lot of driving.
They kept pushing him to work over 30 hours, while being a full time at engineering school, and when they made him do job duties that required driving (which would have entailed half his work hours) they told him he had eat the cost for the gas (Gas was ~$4 a gallon here at the time). This was for an IT internship that paid then Michigan minimum wage of ~$8/hr at the time (now it is $9.50/hr will be $10 next year).

So he quit (he was about 8 months in) and his dad hired him to work at his company, where my cousin was hired in full time.
Strangely enough he couldn't land another IT internship despite have the years of coding under his belt due to the lack of formal paid industry experience.
He also said he couldn't get hired anywhere with his double degree in computer engineering and computer programming, that is why his dad hired him full time.

It is almost impossible for a college aged person or a person in their early 30s and recent grads (myself just turned 30 the other day) to land internship due to all the competition from career peoples in their 30s and 40s.

Literally most internships including unpaid require at least a bachelors (many now require masters, yes this shocked me too) and almost as much industry experience and certifications as entry level job (normally 3-5+ years of industry experience).
This why young people in their 20s and 30s aren't able to land jobs as whole.
Most of us are told we are overqualified to work retail, food services etc..., though those jobs are mostly staffed with non degree holders who are middle aged.

They claim teenagers for most part aren't able to get summer jobs due to employers hiring middle aged folk.


You know there is something seriously wrong when there is high competition for a McDonald's job, especially from older folk.

that is a travesty. but I'm amazed that more such businesses aren't already insisting their internees pay THEM for the experience. mark my words, that is coming if it ain't already here.

I know slavery isn't legal. This isn't slavery. It's a sh***y boss, but it isn't slavery. Not by a long shot.

...5

it is far more than a single shittty boss, it is too damned many of 'em making too many of us quasi-lumpenproles work for free.

You're a few years too late, my dear.
The UK started it with a company who auctioned off the internship to the highest bidder.
I do believe they are currently illegal here.

What is this mysterious looking number business you keep posting?

The only time I worked for free, my husband worked for free, or anybody I know worked for free was when they chose to. The world isn't full of evil business owners out to hurt the poor, innocent, doe eyed and trusting employees. Everybody is out for what they can get. Employees and employers.

I have a feeling that you would love to see all work stopped, nobody would ever have to go to work, we could all just sit around and wait on the government to send us our money so we could buy whatever we feel we are entitled to and nobody would have to do anything for it. I do think that in your vision of this you see that most people would still go to work because it would be for the good of society but that wouldn't happen. Maybe 739 people would go to work and the rest would sit at home enjoying themselves for about four days and then everything would grind to a halt and we would be in the middle of anarchy.

I think you are romanticizing the poor and the bums because you are poor, like I am, and because we are nice people (you are a WHOLE LOT nicer than I am lol) you think that people would be decent. You give people way too much credit. I may go too far in the opposite direction but I think my idea of things is closer to the truth than yours is. Honestly.

I really get frustrated with you because you see everything through rose colored glasses. I'm not mad at you, I'm just frustrated.

People are not as helpless as you seem to think they are. There is a small percentage who are, but for the most part people aren't. Also, the working world isn't fun or fair or anything at alll like that. It's survival. Survival is usually not pretty and comfortable and fun and nice. It's usually brutal and while we try and make it less brutal, it will always be brutal on some level. That is human nature.

I hate that you are so naive because you will constantly be disappointed in people, and you really are so nice and care so much that it will hurt you. I don't want to see you hurt but you see the world in an unrealistic way. While many things are possible on paper and in theory, when you factor in human nature they are impossible. I'll give you an analogy about what I mean, but it's something I think you would really want. I honestly think you would really enjoy seeing a store with the honor system. Come in and pick what you want, pay what you can afford and leave it in the box and take your stuff and leave. I think that you would believe that most people would do the right thing. I on the other hand think that not only the box of money but everything in the store would be gone by noon.

I think you know how human nature is, you aren't stupid by any means. You are very smart and you have been around the block. But I think you willfully ignore it because you want things to be a certain way. I'd like them to be the way you want them to too, but I know they can't. People screw it up. Most people that is.

I always feel bad when I argue with you about stuff like this and go on about how people are. It kind of feels like forcing a bunny rabbit to watch porn lol. That sounds stupid, I know. But you know what I mean. I just think you give people too much credit. I think if you really got to know a lot of the people you always stand up for, you wouldn't give a rats ass about them anymore. Not all of them, by any means. Just the majority. Of course I'm speaking only from my personal experience, but most of the people I know who are in the situations you want to help are either a lot less nicer than you think, and a whole lot tougher than you think.

Anyway, off to watch parks and recreation on Amazon. I'll check with you tomorrow. I'm honestly not being mean.

Love ya!