UK is introducing a new soft drink tax.

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Whole fruit sugar is still sugar. It's healthier to digest & process, but it's still just as calorie dense and likely to cause weight gain. Excess amounts of sugar, even natural sugar, is an unhealthy vice. Believe it or not, sugar used to essentially be an exotic spice that was consumed very infrequently. Now it's in everything and people are paying the price with their health.

On second glance, I'm not sure your tax math is correct because I don't know how many ounces are in the packages you listed prices for. Maybe the prices aren't that high? Assuming $18.02 is accurate, though, no I don't think it's too high. The higher price is supposed to deter consumption, and if people do choose to continue buying just as much, they can pay towards the extra costs of healthcare they create with all the medical issues gluttony contributes to.

I think my attitude towards it is stronger here because we have socialized medicine, so others' medical expenses cost me money and that's annoying when costs can be lowered by people eating healthier and keeping active. Vancouver has the fittest population in the country and we're still too fat.

I hope the amount will increase and fewer people will drink that crap regularly. But really, people are creatures of habit and they'll just pay the extra tax just like smokers who now pay $10-15/pack here. If other vices get taxed (we already tax many.. alcohol cigarettes gambling cannabis) so be it. Gotta pay to play. There should probably be some sort of health warning on products with excessive amounts of sugar. Age restriction? Nah, kids should still be able to buy candy. People should just be conscious of the fact that it's a treat to be enjoyed once in a while or in celebration of something (birthday cake) vs. a main staple of their diet.

They do tax everything I use and I pay. The average total tax rate that the average Canadian family pays was 42.5% in 2017, the second highest of the G7 Nations. We pay a LOT of taxes and fees here on everything. I'm used to things being taxed.

Gasoline is already individually taxed here. Isn't it where you are? We pay the highest gas taxes in North America here in the Vancouver area of BC - and the highest prices at the pump. Gas is $1.54cdn/L right now, which is $5.82cdn/US gallon for regular right now. ($4.55usd/us gallon) That's in thanks to many individual taxes on gasoline like carbon tax, transit system tax, roads/bridges etc. And now they're talking about gps enabled road pricing tolls in addition to the huge prices we pay for car insurance to our gov't monopoly insurance co that skims money off into general tax revenues so car insurance is another tax... and now that it costs an insane amount to live in Vancouver people are living farther out and commuting more and paying big time for it.

https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg ... tolerance/


Cigarettes are nearly impossible to quit, though. Raising taxes on them doesn't make people stop smoking, it just puts Americans further and further into poverty. Economics isn't my strong point, but I fail to see how rampant poverty and crime improves our society.


Boy, have I got some news for you...

I don't know if it's federal, but I know Michigan has had high gasoline taxes for a long time. It's supposed to go towards fixing roads...

Maybe your browser doesn't display images. The image I displayed was for Kern Nectar, which is made with whole fruit; No high fructose corn syrup; 100% natural. The sign says $11.99 + $6.03 sweetened beverage recovery tax which = $18.02 (as the sign says). This is something parents feed to their kids to get 100% natural whole fruit in them. I personally am given a fruit and vegetable combo drink because getting me to eat fruits and vegetables is problematic.



It's just seems a bit contrary to associate soda pop and fruit juice with alcohol cigarettes gambling and cannabis, because they're not really in that realm. What's happened here is, they've stepped out of that realm, which means anything could be next.

Last edited by EzraS on 07 Apr 2018, 1:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

Cigarettes are possible to quit. Many people do it. But it's probably harder than quitting sugar or alcohol. But people still do it AND our socialized healthcare here subsidizes (or covers) their cost of quitting aides. (patch, gum, drugs etc)

Raising taxes on cigarettes might impoverish one generation or so of highly addicted smokers, but it'll deter many more from the next to even start smoking because they can't afford to pay for it at $10-15/pack right now. I hope they raise the taxes higher and they're $15-20/pack. It's now illegal to smoke in public parks and beaches here, or within several meters of a door or window of a public place or private business, can't smoke in cars with kids or in work vehicles or in bars or restaurants at all anymore. The whole point is to discourage people from doing it at all because it costs our medical system & economy FAR too much money and resources.

You're right, bad example.



67.8 cents a gallon is way too much. It will likely keep getting higher and citizens have no say in the matter. I guess I'm supposed to approve of that, but I don't.

I originally viewed the thread on my phone and pics were tiny. Maybe you're not understanding some basic facts about fruit juice. It's highly concentrated and calorie dense. It takes the juice of several fruits to fill one glass. People aren't supposed to drink fruit juice by the water glass full. Traditionally (I'm talking our parents and grandparents generation, it all but disappeared in my generation) a juice glass was 4 ounces and wouldn't be filled to the brim. A cup is 8 ounces. A can of pop is 12 ounces. A water glass may be up to 16 ounces. Basically, most people who drink fruit juice over consume it and get too much sugar because of it.

People would be better off managing portion control by eating whole fruits and vegetables if they can't limit their intake of fruit juice. Further, it's a fruit & vegetable industry myth that you need to consume 5-8 fruits and veggies a day or whatever. You can't go too wrong with extra veggies, especially green leafy ones, but people don't even need 5-8 pieces of fruit per week. I'm more with the camp that 1-2 piecs a week is enough. Sometimes I'll eat a banana a day for a couple weeks, but then about zero fruit for a couple months. Had both a grapefruit and an orange lately - very tasty - especially since I rarely eat them.

So then tax the next unhealthy thing that's costing society. My guess is maybe vapes and vape juice if it's not already taxed high.

Fruit juice has water added to it. The primary (first listed) ingredient in Kern Nectar is filtered water.
Concentrated orange juice from a can is 1 can juice plus 3 cans water. People are supposed to consume 2 one cup servings of fruit a day, that's 16 ounces and fruit is mostly fluid. If you squeeze all the juice out of a peeled orange, the leftover portion would not weigh very much.



Not according to the American Cancer Society.



I'd like to see where, outside of your own surmising, that is recommended.





That's fine. However, drinking fruit juice doesn't equate to vaping, does it?

Put an average sized apple and an orange through a juicer. You won't get anywhere near 16 fluid ounces from the two of them combined. According to google, it takes 3-6 apples to produce 8 ounce of juice. Oranges contain ~2 ounces of juice, so 4 to 8 ounces. You'd have to juice 4 apples and 4 oranges for 16 ounces of juice. People who drink large glasses of fruit juice are over consuming sugar. I used to do it as a kid/teen, but not now.

The book where I read about a culture of people consuming very high protein/seed/nut diets w/ only 1-2 pieces of fruit/week was called "The Secret Life of Plants." It made sense the the healthiest, strongest, fastest, fittest people ate a diet like this vs. high in sugar. I know my strength and general health and fitness are much better on a diet like this than high carb/sugar.

Smoking cannabis doesn't equate to smoking cigarettes or drinking alcohol, but all of them are taxed with sin taxes in part because of their negative effects on health and the costs associated.

The recommendation by nutritionists and the american cancer society, isn't 2 pieces of fruit a day, it's 2 servings of fruit a day. A serving is one cup or 8 ounces. How many cored diced apples does it take to fill an 8 ounce cup?



"The Secret Life of Plants" has been criticized by botanists such as Arthur Galston for endorsing pseudoscientific claims.[7] According to Galston and physiologist Clifford L. Slayman many of the claims in the book are false or unsupported by independent verification and replicable studies.[8]

Botanist Leslie Audus noted that the book is filled with nonsensical "outrageous" claims and should be regarded as fiction.[1]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Secre ... #Criticism

My guess is that your miracle autism diet would probably also meet similar criticism, sorry to say.




Why is it logical to equate soda pop and fruit juice with cannabis, without also expecting it to have the same restrictions applied such as having to be an adult to consume it? That's what cannabis, tobacco and alcohol all have in common. You have to be 18-21 to consume them.

Furthermore it is illegal to give someone underage cannabis, tobacco and alcohol, so by what logic should it be legal to give someone underage soda pop and fruit juice?

One cup = approx one average sized apple. Have you never seen a measuring cup? Nor held an apple in your hand? Now picture them side by side. They're a similar volume.

I've read The Secret Life of Plants. The bit about a culture's diet has nothing to do with the critiques of fringe science stuff like attaching sensors to plants and measuring their pain or emotional response, or using certain types of photography to visually perceive their aura or vitality. Those are the types things people are going to look sideways at and say they don't believe, not a little historical reference to a group of people who didn't consume a high sugar diet and were healthier for it.

If I truly cared what criticism my diet would receive I wouldn't have shared my story here. I know what it's done for me and that's that.

Because we've proven over 100 years that pop is safe for children to consume. It just needs to be in moderation. Also ideally made of real ingredients vs. HFCS etc. Sugar isn't exactly an intoxicant and afaik it doesn't do damage to a developing brain. But clearly people don't realize on their own that over consuming it is bad for them and thus a warning label might help give them an idea of what an appropriate serving size and frequency is. It'd be nice to see sugary treats going back to being treats vs. what people eat all day every day. People would be far healthier for it.

For what it’s worth dry measurements differ from wet measurements. A one cup measuring device for dry goods is smaller than a liquid one. Chunks of apple and orange would be measured in the dry cup and their squeezed out juice in the wet cup.

Also you add water to some juice containers to reconstitute it. The juice had water in it naturally, it was removed when it was processed (not sure why) and you add it back in. You’re not really watering down the original nature of the juice.

Um, no. That's not how it works. Measurements of volume are measurements of volume, period. You may be confusing the difference between ounces of MASS (16 ounces to a lb) and fluid ounces. (8 to a cup) But a cup is a cup is a cup, 8 fluid ounces of volume regardless of whether what's being measured is wet or dry.

They concentrate juice to ship it for sale far cheaper than shipping all that extra water weight and wasting space/fuel etc. It only makes sense that things that can be concentrated for sale should be. Kool-aid powder, laundry soap, frozen fruit juices etc.

I understand what you mean, but in baking liquid measurements are different than dry. (At least with Imperial measurements). That’s why a cook will have two sets of measuring cups. My glass liquid 1 cup holds more than my dry 1 cups. It’s not much but my dry one cup holds 240 ml, my wet 250. Metric is more precise than Imperial.

I just mentioned the concentrate as to me, it seemed like Ezra might think the juice was being diluted rather than being returned to its more natural state.

Then two or three cored apples, being the equivalent of two 8 oz cups, is the amount of fruit one should eat or drink per day. Which is what I was saying all along I believe.



Safe to consume in moderation. So a "sin tax" in this case would help enforce moderation. That's acceptable. But then again, if most food had a heavy tax applied to it, people would consume less of it and that would reduce/eliminate obesity. So it comes back to the government needing to enforce restrictions on a lot of food items, to make obesity control through government intervention effective.

You're ignoring my post where I pointed out that it takes 8 apples & oranges to make one 16 fluid ounce glass of juice, so there's a big difference between eating 2 cups of whole fruit (2 apples, or 1 apple and 1 orange) and drinking 2 cups of fruit juice.

Another government tactic, which was deployed here before the 2010 Winter Olympics, is to offer tax deductions for exercise classes/gym memberships etc. The objective of our government was to get people to get in better shape so we'd look better to the rest of the world when they showed up to party and saw our crowds on TV.

IMO, those sorts of tax credits should be permanent and should apply to all citizens regardless of age (there were special tax breaks for school aged dependants getting fitter etc) as it's good for not only the health and fitness industries, but productivity in general, as well as reduced healthcare costs. I've seen a video our of Russia where if you do x number of squats in front of a camera sensor you get a free train/public transportation fare ticket. Governments can do more to incentivize health & fitness besides just taxing unhealthy junk foods.