Not so nice parents

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magz
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04 Jun 2019, 5:33 am

cyberdad wrote:

magz wrote:

cyberdad wrote:

magz wrote:

I gave my best, most recent knowledge on twin studies on autism and their results:
The broader definition of autism, the higher influence of genetic factor.

So, if one day a genetic test for autism is created, it most likely wouldn't be able to tell severe autism from Asperger's from BAP.

I think this is likely that when/if genes are mapped for autism that parents will probably opt to terminate regardless because of the lottery of ending up with a child who will never be normal in their eyes.

I would call it a very consumptionist attitude towards parenting.

Tell that to the 95% of parents who terminate a downs syndrome baby when they get their amniocentesis results

Did I ever state it's uncommon?

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TwilightPrincess
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06 Jun 2019, 8:35 am

cyberdad wrote:

magz wrote:

cyberdad wrote:

magz wrote:

I would call it a very consumptionist attitude towards parenting.

Tell that to the 95% of parents who terminate a downs syndrome baby when they get their amniocentesis results

Most don’t get that testing done in the first place because it does come with a very small risk of pregnancy loss. People whose families are predisposed to various ailments are more likely to go through with it. I had blood drawn to test for various genetic problems, but my results were fairly low risk, so the doctor wouldn’t have recommended anything further unless I had wanted it.

I wouldn’t have chosen to have further testing done because I was going to keep the baby regardless of what the results would’ve been. Abortion was not for me, personally, but I’m not against other women choosing that option.

I wouldn’t have considered DS a big deal but that’s probably due to my upbringing.

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magz
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06 Jun 2019, 9:44 am

Twilightprincess wrote:

I didn't do the testing for exactly the same reason.
But it would be extremely hard to raise a child with Down syndrome, especially for my husband. We both cope with life using our intellect first and we would have no idea what to do with a child who couldn't.

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TwilightPrincess
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06 Jun 2019, 11:17 am

magz wrote:

Twilightprincess wrote:

Young children don’t use their intellect, either, but we still love them.

It’s sort of like having a child that reaches a specific age and then stays there for the rest of his or her life.

My male friend with Down Syndrome was like a 10-12 year old. We had lots of fun playing hide-and-go seek and tag together when I was little. He was always ready for fun.

My female friend with DS was like a 5 or 6 year old. We had lots of tea parties together. She also liked drawing and coloring pictures of hearts. A girly girl!

This really is not that relevant to our current discussion...

It’s hard for parents to still have children to take care of when they are aging themselves and people with DS tend to have lots of health issues as well. But my friends have (and had

) a very strong and positive impact on their community.

Once again, I believe abortion is a person’s choice and right, but it just wouldn’t have been for me. I might have considered it if I had had a child with an illness that causes a lot of daily physical pain, though... It’s awful to see a child in pain.

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06 Jun 2019, 7:35 pm

This is actually in my fathers area of expertise. I didnt read the article, but if the embryo was tested than thats a MAJOR screw up by the genetics lab. Like, downs is a really easy abnormality to spot so they really did mess up. However, its super hard to sue for something like that. Theres really not much to sue on now that the baby is born. The parents are just gonna get a heap of bad press for it.
Personally, Ive never met a parent of a downs kid who wouldve wished their child hadnt been born. The first several years are difficult-and theyll always be kinda difficult-but they are also very loving and happy children.

(so i only glanced over the comments right above mine so this is just in response to the original post sry)

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CockneyRebel
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07 Jun 2019, 12:51 am

Abortion should not be a right. It's murder any way you look at it. Abortion stops a beating heart. I dream of a future where all babies that are conceived are born. Abortion hurts us all.

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magz
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07 Jun 2019, 1:04 am

Twilightprincess wrote:

Young children don’t use their intellect, either, but we still love them.

There are people who don't like young children...

I wouldn't abort but it would be really hard. Even "normal" parenting is too much for us.

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TwilightPrincess
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07 Jun 2019, 10:05 am

magz wrote:

Twilightprincess wrote:

Young children don’t use their intellect, either, but we still love them.

There are people who don't like young children...

I wouldn't abort but it would be really hard. Even "normal" parenting is too much for us.

I think that if people don’t like young children they should try to avoid getting pregnant in the first place. It’s really important to bond with kids during those early years.

magz
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07 Jun 2019, 10:13 am

The fact of them being your children makes a huge difference.
Also, it improves over time so one may be willing to survive the first few years.

By the way, what you said sounds rather judgemental.

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Fnord
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07 Jun 2019, 11:43 am

cyberdad wrote:

A couple has been granted extra time to sue a Gold Coast ultrasound clinic and doctor over their failure to diagnose their unborn daughter with Down syndrome...

magz
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07 Jun 2019, 11:49 am

Fnord wrote:

cyberdad wrote:

A couple has been granted extra time to sue a Gold Coast ultrasound clinic and doctor over their failure to diagnose their unborn daughter with Down syndrome...

That's weird ... I never knew that 21-Trisomy ("Down Syndrome") could be detected via ultrasound. I thought it could only be detected in vivo by genetic examination of an fluid sample obtained through amniocentesis. The case makes about as much sense as suing a watermelon salesperson because tapping on the rind did not detect the worm inside.

:roll:

Ignorance over science? I sure hope not!

Yes, it can be detected with ultrasound. https://www.nature.com/news/2002/021216 ... 16-14.html <- this is an old article. When I was pregnant, it was already a routine test.
However, unlike the amniocentesis test that poses some risks to the fetus, the ultrasound examination is not 100% precise.

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Fnord
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07 Jun 2019, 11:55 am

magz wrote:

... unlike the amniocentesis test that poses some risks to the fetus, the ultrasound examination is not 100% precise.

Hmm... "... the proportion of false alarms jumps to 8% for patients of African descent...", according to the article, while amniocentesis is more than 99% accurate. I'd bet that the ultrasound technician's lawyers will mitigate the lawsuit with figures like these.

This is a rhetorical question, so you don't have to answer it (just give it some thought): Which form of contraception would you rather use: one that's 92% effective, or one that's 99% effective (or better)?

magz
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07 Jun 2019, 12:08 pm

Ultrasound is cheap and doesn't pose any risk.
When I was pregnant, they told me that if I wanted to be sure, amniocentesis would give way more certainity (numbers included).
I didn't go for it - but with the information I got, it would be seen as my choice not to go for it, nothing to sue about.

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TwilightPrincess
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07 Jun 2019, 12:48 pm

magz wrote:

The fact of them being your children makes a huge difference.
Also, it improves over time so one may be willing to survive the first few years.

By the way, what you said sounds rather judgemental.

It’s not judgmental. Bonding is really important for early childhood development. I can’t imagine intentionally getting pregnant and not liking young children.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5330336/

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07 Jun 2019, 12:56 pm

Twilightprincess wrote:

... I can’t imagine intentionally getting pregnant and not liking young children.

Me neither. It's hard enough to imagine parents not liking their own 'accidental' children, even though I know it happens.

magz
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07 Jun 2019, 1:07 pm

Twilightprincess wrote:

It’s not judgmental. Bonding is really important for early childhood development. I can’t imagine intentionally getting pregnant and not liking young children.

Yet it happens all the time.
Not liking young children is passe so many don't admit it but people do it.

Ability to relate to a particular young child is something very different from liking young children in general.
From my toddlerhood I remember I hated adults who "loved sweet little babies". I related to those who could hold a matter-of-fact conversation about something interesting. My way of relating to young children is based on their curiosity - for a very young child, everything is interesting. This is where we can form a bond.
My husband's way of relating to children is through creativity. It requires some minimal age, unlike curiosity that is present from birth.

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