Are we about to make a truely fantastic discovery????

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As recently as the early 1950s (before satellites) people thought Mars might have advanced life forms. the war of the worlds radio program that caused mass panic in the 1920s was based on a firm belief not only aliens lived on Mars but they were capable of invading the earth.

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Dude you messed up!

You are replying to *A* post that I made, but not to the one quoted here. Your above post has nothing to do with my post that you quoted.

The post that you are replying to was when i said that "Martians" became passe' in sci fi in the interwar era".

you're reply has many factual errors.

Low brow non scientists (ie your great grandparents and mine)who were tuned into that Mercury Network broadcast were open to the possibility that Mars MIGHT have intelligent life. I dont know of any actual astronomer who "firmly believed that Mars had living intelligent beings after the First World War.

Though Nicola Tesla (not an astronomer) did mess around with trying to send and receive radio signals "from Mars" in the 1920s.

HG Wells "War of the Worlds" was written in the Nineteenth Century.

The infamous Orson Welles broadcast of the novel was in 1938 (eve of WWII), and not in "the 1920s". And the panic it caused probably had more to with that fact (anxiety about earth bound enemies invading us like Hitler) than with a "firm belief" in the existence of Martians.

But you're right than even today there are flakes on the Gaia Network who talk about Martians.

"?" Indeed!

Terrestrial conquerors from Earth OF Earth love to pillage and plunder. But Hitler and Napoleon would take portable works of art, but not big structures (the Rosetta Stone, but not the whole Pyramids). Hitler pillaged great paintings in France, but he didnt cart off the Eiffel Tower.

Your Martians wouldnt take huge structures from Earth. And even if they did..why would would they not ALSO build monumental structures of their own on their own planet?????

Wouldnt it be more likely that those alleged "faces" and "pyramids" folks see in photographs of Mars would be built by Martians to impress fellow Martians than that they would be imports from Earth?

Sure! I think as far back as 1894 scientists worked out there were no water or oxygen in the Martian atmosphere. But this did not stop speculation right up to the early 1950s that mars had river channels and possibly once had great civilisations. Space program and improvement in telescopes put an end to that speculation but to be honest even when the first Viking lander (Viking 1) landed on Mars in 1976, scientists had no idea what to expect.

Actually that is somewhat close to the truth. But there are several layers. I need to unwrap these layers one at a time. The first layer is UFOs. Or more specifically Earthlings that have been kidnapped and traveled to another planet and returned back to Earth. There are many accounts and normally we put these stories in the CRAZY IDIOT TABLE, of our minds. But for a little bit, let us look a little deeper into these stories.

According to Wikipedia, Alien abduction (also called abduction phenomenon, alien abduction syndrome, or UFO abduction) refers to the phenomenon of people reporting what they believe to be the real experience of being kidnapped by extraterrestrial beings and subjected to physical and psychological experimentation.

According to John E. Mack, a psychiatrist who gave credence to such claims, most of those who report alien abductions and believe their experiences were real are sane, common people, and psychopathology was associated only with some cases. Mack reported that some abduction reports are quite detailed, and an entire subculture has developed around the subject, with support groups and a detailed mythos explaining the reasons for abductions.

While the term "alien abduction" did not achieve widespread attention until the 1960s, modern speculation about some older stories interpreted them as possible cases. UFO researcher Jerome Clark dubbed them "paleo-abductions".[12]

-- In the November 27, 1896, edition of the Stockton, California, Daily Mail, Colonel H. G. Shaw claimed he and a friend were harassed by three tall, slender humanoids whose bodies were covered with a fine, downy hair who tried to kidnap the pair.

-- In the October 1953 issue of Man to Man Magazine, an article by Leroy Thorpe titled "Are the Flying Saucers Kidnapping Humans?" asks the question "Are an unlucky few of us, and perhaps not so few at that, being captured with the same ease as we would net butterflies, perhaps for zoological specimens, perhaps for vivisection or some other horrible death designed to reveal to our interplanetary invaders what makes us tick?"

-- Rogerson writes that the 1955 publication of Harold T. Wilkins's Flying Saucers Uncensored declared that Karl Hunrath and Wilbur Wilkinson, who had claimed they were contacted by aliens, had disappeared under mysterious circumstances; Wilkins reported speculation that the duo were the victims of "alleged abduction by flying saucers".

So I will try and lay out and merge this level into the narrative. From my perspective, there is an advanced civilization that exist on Mars. It exist within the interior of Mars. The outer layer provides the beings in Mars to exist, shielded from the high levels of radiation that exist on the surface. These beings are conducting physical experiments on humans in the same way that humans conduct physical experiments on animals. There have been many stories of alien space ships crashing on Earth and even some pictures of the aliens found within the crafts.



The first part of this 60 Minute report explores the evidence that advanced civilizations exist around Earth.

I am going to deviate a little on this discussion and explore an important part - Water.

Water is an essential part of human existence. Without water we will die in a few days. We can live without food for several days or weeks, but we cannot live without water. So if an advanced civilization exist there is a good chance that it will also need water.

We get our water from many sources. Most of the city folks turn on a valve in their homes and water flows out just like magic. But water comes from two sources. One is above the ground and the other is below the ground. Mine comes from deep underground. Some people live on small islands and get their water from rainfall. They collect the water and store it in large chambers and take it out when they need it. Some people take their rainwater from rivers high on top mountains. But most people take rain water that has traveled down rivers and streams. Many times this water has been filled with contaminants from upstream. So people will take the water, store it and purify it and then provide it to the people living within cities.

But my water is different. It comes from the ground. Water flows underground all over planet Earth. All you need is a way to bring it to the surface. My water comes from 35 feet below my house. I have a underground water pump that brings it into my house. The pump is around 40 years old and still works well.

So what is the point? It is actually an important question. If an advanced form of life exist on Mars, where do they get their water from? It is not on the surface. But perhaps it comes to them from the same way I get my water from - from underground their planet.

This brings up some very interesting data from NASA. There is vast amounts of water underground on Planet Mars.

the popularity of alien abduction in popular culture took off after the famous Barney and Betty Hill Abduction case in 1961
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barney_an ... l_incident

If you are interested in this topic there's several lines of interesting claims revolving around alien bases (on earth, the moon and Mars) including but not restricted to:
Project Star Gate
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stargate_Project
and cattle mutilations
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cattle_mutilation

the last one is most interesting as it involves global phenomena of cattle being found inexplicably drained of blood plasma, and missing specific organs, some of which according to veterinary investigation involve no incisions and yet the organs have been somehow taken out of the cattle. the connection to bases is the concept that aliens use bases on both earth and other nearby planets to conduct experiments on humans and animals.

I see, so initially we were discussing microbial life, but now it's about accessing water by advanced beings. A number of "alternative" authors have postulated the extensive network of subsurface volcanic tubes offer a convenient home for advanced beings to both a. travel beneath the martian landscape b. remain undetected from nosy earth astronomers and c.access water that is both miles under the surface but also transported from the martian polar ice.

Actually, this is much, much deeper then just a discussion on Alien visitors from Mars. Just wait until I begin discussing the next level which describes the first alien encounter on Mars. It goes back almost a million years ago.

Here is a link to an interesting discussion on UFOs.

The Government’s Former UFO Hunter Found Something More Concerning Than Aliens

In the article with Scientific American, Sean Kirkpatrick describes his 3 decades of investigating UAP (unidentified anomalous phenomena) for the U.S. government. He begins by describing the two tasks he was assigned to perform:

(First Task) The Congress really gave us two main missions. There was an operational mission, which is to investigate contemporary sightings with military pilots, operators [and] sensors to understand what’s happening in our domain. You can think of that as the current time going forward.

The second mission was a historical mission, which was to look at everything the United States government has done on this topic, going back to 1945, as well as look at whether or not there’s been any sort of hidden program by the government that’s been kept from Congress on investigating UAP/UFOs or reverse engineering of said things.

Later he wrote: So a lot of people point out, “Are you telling me that 12 of these vehicles traveled interstellar space, found Earth, got to Earth, and they all crashed in the United States in the last mile?” That’s just not rational, right?

Actually that answer makes a lot of sense. But it is really the first task assignment "to investigate contemporary sightings with military pilots, operators [and] sensors to understand what’s happening in our domain."

If an advanced civilization exists deep within Mars, then they would probably have a saying similar to "Never Leave a Man Behind". They would go to extreme lengths to remove all evidence of their presence from the scene of an accident. And accidents like this would be extremely rare.

Their first task was to identify what is causing these UFO craft witnessed by the military.

Last edited by jimmy m on 21 Aug 2024, 6:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

^^^ If you check the recently (2 days ago) published book by the former Pentagon head of AATIP Luis Elizondo
https://www.amazon.com.au/Imminent-Insi ... B0CW1DWNQ5

He makes it clear Kirkpatrick has been tasked with managing the fallout from his own whistleblowing from back in 2017. there is literally nothing more important than the prospect that non-human intelligence has already interacted with the US government or at the very least the US government has acquired alien technology and been studying it now for decades according to the latest congress testimony from US navy pilots Graves and Fravor and intelligence officer David Grusch.

So of course Kirkpatrick is saying a. yes, there are weird things in the sky b. but there are no aliens and c. we have bigger fish to fry.....so the usual thing...nothing to see here folks

This is a report from the Office of the Director of National Intelligence. It is dated 25 June 2021. The title is "Preliminary Assessment: Unidentified Aerial Phenomena".

Preliminary Assessment: Unidentified Aerial Phenomena

Within the report are some of the following information:

Limited Data Leaves Most UAP Unexplained.
But Some Potential Patterns Do Emerge
And a Handful of UAP Appear to Demonstrate Advanced Technology

In 18 incidents, described in 21 reports, observers reported unusual UAP movement patterns or flight characteristics.

Some UAP appeared to remain stationary in winds aloft, move against the wind, maneuver abruptly, or move at considerable speed, without discernable means of propulsion. In a small number of cases, military aircraft systems processed radio frequency (RF) energy associated with UAP sightings.

The UAPTF holds a small amount of data that appear to show UAP demonstrating acceleration or a degree of signature management.

The title of the book is Imminent: Inside the Pentagon's Hunt for UFOs by Luis Elizondo
I took a look but very little data was available on the link you provided. It did describe the author:

Luis "Lue" Elizondo is the former head of the Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program (AATIP), the Pentagon unit that researched UFOs, now known as Unidentified Anomalous Phenomena (UAP). Prior to AATIP, he oversaw counterespionage and counterterrorism investigations worldwide for the Department of Defense and also worked for the Office of the National Counterintelligence Executive and the Office of the Director of National Intelligence. He is a proud US Army veteran who later served his country around the world, including South Korea, Latin America, the Caribbean, Afghanistan, and other countries throughout the Middle East. He is a graduate of the University of Miami, where he studied microbiology and immunology.

ABC News provides a review:
Book Review: Former Pentagon insider says U.S. unwilling to release all its UFO info

In “Imminent,” long-time Defense Department researcher Luis Elizondo argues that mysterious flying objects, now called unidentified anomalous phenomena, pose a national security threat

A procession of books in recent years have explored the UFO phenomenon but few perhaps with the authority Luis Elizondo brings as a Defense Department insider, laboring for decades to learn who the visitors are, where they are from and what they want.

In the 275 pages of “Imminent: Inside the Pentagon’s Hunt for UFOs,” Elizondo provides evidence of what the U.S. Department of Defense knows with this somewhat surprising conclusion – Defense Department higher-ups often thwart Elizondo and his team’s efforts.

Why? Elizondo writes that the defense establishment doesn’t want to present a problem it neither can explain nor offer a solution. But are these visitors a threat? Elizondo concludes that the visitors’ capabilities make them a “very serious national security issue.”

Earliest documented UFO sightings go back to before World War II and since then, many UFOs have violated sensitive military airspace but no one appears to have been deliberately hurt by a UFO in the United States. However, perhaps given his combat experiences and long association with Defense Department work, Elizondo worries about another 9-11-type attack, a threat we should have anticipated but did not.

Elizondo became so alarmed at what he was learning about UFOs (over the past 2 decades) that the Defense Department refused to disclose to the public that he ultimately resigned his job with the Defense Department so he could go public with much of what he knows about the presence of visitors whose vehicles are far more advanced than what we earthlings have built. Several passages in the book are redacted and Elizondo writes multiple times that he cannot say more about certain subjects.

Perhaps more alarmingly, as he points out, the Defense Department and other government entities at every level tend to regard our elected representatives as “temporary hires” who need to be managed and fed information as the departments see fit. The Defense bureaucracy, for example, didn’t trust President Nixon, so it didn’t tell him much about UFOs.

The Defense Department recently has released more information on UFOs, thanks largely to Elizondo and his colleagues, but given the reluctant government pace, the bureaucracy doesn’t appear to judge UFOs as an “imminent” threat.

Meantime, the American people — make that the world — seem to regard the proven-beyond-reasonable-doubt arrival of visitors from far away as news eliciting little more than a shrug.

A Defense Department briefing detailing much more of what it knows might change that. A good starting point might be what happened to the remains of non-human bodies that have been recovered from crash sites.

Elizondo fears the Defense Department never will disclose what it knows about that.

So this article looks like a good book to read. I will need to buy a copy.

Yes I published a whole thread on this report back in 2021. the CIA basically acknowledged the presence of UAPs but refused to entertain aliens but they did have a category for "other" which could open the door to other explanations.