HAMAS continue to taunt families of victims

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https://www.snopes.com/news/2023/11/01/ ... ect-hamas/

this is certainly one sided though. I am sorry FE, I normally agree on most things with you but even as recently as 2022, a majority of Palestinians, 59%, believe armed attacks against Israelis inside Israel are an effective measure to end the occupation, with 56% supporting them
https://pcpsr.org/en/node/912

It is not really surprising that HAMAS have come to be representative of the Palestinian people. Palestinian political violence has historically targeted Israelis, Palestinians, Lebanese, Jordanians, Egyptians, Americans, and citizens of other countries. Attacks have taken place both within Israel and the Palestinian territories as well as internationally and have been directed at both military and civilian targets. Tactics have included hostage taking, plane hijacking, boat hijacking, stone and improvised weapon throwing, improvised explosive device (IED), knife attacks, shooting sprees, lynchings, vehicle-ramming attacks, car bombs, suicide bombs and assassinations. In the 1990s, groups seeking to disrupt the Israeli-Palestinian peace process began adopting suicide bombings, predominantly targeting civilians, which later peaked during the Second Intifada. In recent decades, violence has also included rocket attacks on Israeli urban centers. The October 7, 2023, attacks resulted in massacres, and hostage-taking.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestini ... _attitudes

While I acknowledge common Palestinian people are largely being manipulated by groups like HAMAS due to harsh responses from the IDF and Israeli government policies, Israeli civilians (both Jewish and Arab) have been living under a constant state of war since 1948. I can't (in all honesty) understand why Israeli citizens and their children should be subject to intergenerational violence and terror like some form of warped sense of justice for something that happened almost a century ago?

People want assurance in their life, I understand the need for strong defence, obviously any number of subversive group can infiltrate Israel at any time with rockets or weapons or suicide bombs. As I said, Israel is going nowhere. the Palestinian groups purporting to represent Palestinian people will (unfortunately for them) learn the hard way you can't keep using violence as a negotiating tool. the people who pay are civilians.

I will let the Palestinian people speak for themselves. A majority of Palestinians, 59%, believe armed attacks against Israelis inside Israel are an effective measure to end the occupation, with 56% supporting them
https://pcpsr.org/en/node/912

Yes, that's not every Palestinian, but that's most.

Support for Hamas has been up and down, and it seems to strongly coincide with Israel’s piss-poor behavior. This isn’t just about 1948. It’s about ongoing oppression that began in 1948 but never stopped. People’s views make sense when they are taken in context.

The underlined is objectively false. The goal of giving much more land to the Jewish state was to ensure they had land for settlers, it wasn't based on the population that lived there currently.

Jewish settlers weren't widely distributed through out the Palestinian countryside, yet huge swaths of the countryside were included in the proposed Jewish state's borders.

I'd love to see what you're basing your claims on because they're in conflict with literally every source I've ever seen.[/quote]

That underlined statement does not say anything about the jewish settlers being widely distributed in those areas. You are attacking a straw man. I said that those areas were less densely populated and most Palestinians did not live there, i.e. there were large areas of land there that were uninhabited and at the time, it was also unsuitable for agriculture. (No, this does not mean that there were no Palestinians there either, just in case you decide show sources that were some Palestinian villages, I'm not saying there weren't.) Also more jewish settlements were in those areas than in the areas that would have become Palestine in the original partition plan.

The Palestinians who still lived in those areas were supposed to become Israeli citizens in the original UN resolution (there was never any plan for ethnic cleansing like the Nakba at the UN, the Israeli military did that unilaterally). What they complained about was that they'd be in the minority in that territory due to how the land was divided up in the original partition plan.[/quote]

It's worth noting that it sure sounds like you're repeating a variation of the a land without people for a people without land lie, while also conceding that you know it's a lie and don't wish to be reminded that you've seen evidence proving that it's a lie.

Dealing with those Palestinians in good faith might have required redrawing the borders and leaving more of Palestine in Palestinian hands. How dare they not wish to be second-class citizens in a hostile ethnostate. Can you believe how unreasonable they were?

Dealing with them in good faith doesn't appear to have ever been a priority. Giving them an intolerable deal as one leg of a take-it-or-leave-it deal, with leave it meaning they'd be at the mercy of the Stern gang and other terrorist organizations seems to have been the real intention all along.

In the article you posted:

You can't imagine why people who settled in a war zone are subjected to the ongoing war that their nation started?

It's almost like actions have consequences and a people who have been colonized will keep fighting back in order to defend themselves from the aggressors.

If Israelis don't want to deal with the consequences of their actions they need to stop committing those actions. As long as Palestinians exist they will continue to try to stop the theft of their homeland. Israel doesn't get to steal more from them because they're unhappy about being stolen from. The fact that it's been going on for nearly a century doesn't change who the aggressor has been the whole damn time.

Israel owes compensation to every single Palestinian harmed as a result of it's creation but instead responds with violence and further theft and yet somehow there's people who wish to insist well ackshully the Palestinians should just accept being ethnically cleansed because sometimes genocide is good, mmkay.

Israel has no right to further brutalize people they've stolen from. Israel needs to offer them a good enough deal to ensure peace, even if that means losing land and paying significant reparations. Anything short of that amounts to Israel getting away with a massive crime against humanity.

If Israel has no interest in doing the right thing the world needs to twist their arm until they reconsider. If they threaten the Samson option, call their bluff.

I'm sick of people who turn into flying monkeys in support of Israel.

I think you'll find I agree with these two points. Israel needs to compensate Palestinians (I have never had qualms about this). the Israelis have links to deep pocket books so this is what I mean't as leverage. Second, Israel needs to halt land grabs and give back anything beyond what was agreed in previous peace settlements. I believe this was agreed back when Yitzhak Rabin and Yasser Arafat created an accord in Camp David all those years ago. But these are things that if Israel is not playing its part then Pro-Palestinian groups should be calling for sanctions, not paying thugs to cross into Israeli space and murder children.

It takes two to tango. And let's not pretend Palestinians didn't put stock in Arab armed invasions over multiple decades to make Palestine free of Jews from the river to the sea.

Instead of rewriting post history I'll continue to hope that you learn from the subsequent posts.

How dare they appeal for help to stop their lands from being stolen.

And what lesson is that? I basically want exactly what the protestors who have closed down Melbourne central business district last night want which is to halt invasion of Gaza, halt land grabs and compensate Palestinians.
Except I am not draped in Palestinian flags, throwing feces at police or damaging property or calling for the destruction of Israel.
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cly35g91712o