Police: Autistic teen With AK-47 Opened Fire

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CRACK
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16 May 2008, 4:12 pm

enough of the gun control arguments. the only people responsible for this tragedy is the autistic teen and, to a much lesser extent, the father. That is all.



iamnotaparakeet
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16 May 2008, 4:15 pm

What was the kid's reason?



slowmutant
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16 May 2008, 4:16 pm

Hallelujah! The autistic teen is RESPONSIBLE!

He's done a bad thing and now he faces the consequences of his actions.



iamnotaparakeet
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16 May 2008, 4:22 pm

We are all responsible for our own actions, so he is responsible for his.

Now, what was his reason? Was this action out of violence? Did he plan it? Did he not know what he was doing by pointing and squeezing the trigger? Or did the rifle drag him around firing on its own?



slowmutant
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16 May 2008, 4:25 pm

Whatever his motive was, it won't vindicate him.



iamnotaparakeet
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16 May 2008, 4:27 pm

slowmutant wrote:
Whatever his motive was, it won't vindicate him.


No, it won't. Nice to find out why he decided to do this though.



Silver_Meteor
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19 May 2008, 6:35 pm

Dox47 wrote:
slowmutant wrote:
A linear accelerator won't get you arrested for possession. A "linear accelerator" could be anything, depending on how you spin the semantics. This is altogether ridiculous. :roll:

Guns are weapons. Ask a police officer.

Jeff Cooper is correct about the scalpel, btw. It's a surgical instrument used to generate incisions. Who the hell is Jeff Cooper?


I'm probably wasting my time, but this sort of (deliberate?) complete missing of a point drives me crazy.

Firstly, by pointing out that a gun is simply a linear accelerator, I was making no comment on the laws of any particular country. I was simply reducing an object to it's engineering term, in this case a firearm. Not just "anything" can be called a linear accelerator, but a few common ones would be cars, bows, some air tools, etc. They propel, or accelerate, an object in a straight line. That's all they do. To what purpose is completely the choice of the operator.

Secondly, police officers enforce the law, they do not make the law. They don't even have to UNDERSTAND the law, they just have a book of rules and regulations that they make sure everyone follows. I can tell you from personal experience, they are not a good source of information on the law. A criminal lawyer is a better source, but even they are not infallible.

Thirdly, where do you draw the line between a weapon and a tool? Knives are a very useful tool, cooking and opening things would be quite difficult without them. They are also a very good weapon. As a person with martial arts experience, at close range I'll put my money on an Escrimador with a blade over a cop with a gun. So which is it, a weapon or a tool? Is it both, and what does that distinction matter anyway? I could save your life with a weapon, or I could kill you with a tool, who cares what it's called. I'm not the one hung up on semantics, it would seem.

Finally, my guns would not get me arrested for possession here. Thankfully, I live in a country where the average citizen in trusted to be responsible with firearms, a system that works, for the most part. I'm licensed to carry my pistols, and I do so wherever I go, so if something were to happen, I'd be prepared to handle it, a luxury not afforded to citizens of certain other countries.

Btw, Jeff Cooper was a military veteran that is generally considered the father of competitive practical pistol shooting. He helped to popularize the 1911 style pistol and the .45ACP cartridge it chambered, and is also remembered for a long lived column in Guns and Ammo magazine.


There is a difference. Something like a shotgun was designed as a legitimate hunting weapon. An AK-47 on the other hand is not. It was designed primarily as an anti-personnel device used in the military. There is no legitimate need for civilians to have these kinds of guns when an old fashioned pistol or shotgun will protect you just as well.


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Dox47
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19 May 2008, 7:15 pm

Silver_Meteor wrote:
There is a difference. Something like a shotgun was designed as a legitimate hunting weapon. An AK-47 on the other hand is not. It was designed primarily as an anti-personnel device used in the military. There is no legitimate need for civilians to have these kinds of guns when an old fashioned pistol or shotgun will protect you just as well.


Depends on what you are defending yourself from. If you watch footage of the LA Rodney King riots, for example, you can see Korean shop owners on the roofs of their stores fending off hoards of looters with "assault" rifles. The mere presence of the weapons was enough of a deterrent to keep criminals away from theirs shops. I doubt they could have done that with pistols or shotguns, at least without firing a warning shot and or making an example of the first looter to test their resolve. Besides which, in this country at least, self defense is a legitimate reason to own a gun, and a military rifle is built for that exact purpose. You get into a real gray zone when you start down the road of assigning labels to things. I'm a certified gunsmith, I can modify a "target" rifle to perform in a similar if not better way than an "assault rifle", or build one from scratch given enough time. Legislation restricting firearms ownership does nothing to deter or prevent crime, it only deprives people like me of a legitimate hobby, and prevents me from effectively defending myself and my family.



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19 May 2008, 7:37 pm

:roll:
I don’t really care what his rationale was for trying to light up a basketball court with an AK, let him be judged and pay up for it.

His father, minister or not, has every right to own an AK-47 or whatever else. In this case with his son being unstable, though, I think it would have been prudent to have the weapons in a locked metal cabinet or cable-locked. It’s really a judgment call in that you’d have to know the kid’s mental condition in order to determine the necessity and level of securing the weapons. If you need it in an emergency (and it happens) you don’t want it to be too inaccessible.

The arguments about the necessity of personal firearm ownership is one that’s been kicked around here before. As a human being, in any country, we all have the right to protect ourselves. There have always been and always will be bad people out there whom we need to protect ourselves from. Don’t hold your breath waiting for that to change because it obviously never will.
Believing that all would be well and the sun would shine upon us every day if we could just do away with guns is not only naïve but a very dangerous mindset.

Don’t wait for the police to protect you either because it’s not their function to protect individuals no matter what they tell you. Not only is it not their function to protect you but they aren’t logistically capable of providing it. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure that out.

When someone is breaking into your house you need protection THEN. When a gang of thugs in the hood decide they don’t like your looks at a red light and decide to drag you out of your car and break every bone in your body you need protection THEN. When during the aftermath of a disaster (hurricane, earthquake, etc.) and you have bands of roving undesirables out and about looking for trouble and little to no police presence you need protection THEN.
This isn’t a paranoia thing about living in fear of these things happening or about waiting for any excuse to “whack” someone, either.

Using deadly force to defend yourself from intentional bodily harm or death does not make you as bad as the person trying to harm you. They came to you looking for trouble and are getting what they bargained for whether they think they bargained for it or not.
Carrying a firearm and/or having one ready at home does not mean you are looking for trouble it means you are prepared for it. Does wearing seatbelts or having airbags in your car mean you want to have an auto accident?

Forget the tiresome old arguments about all the people being “killed by guns” every year.
Look at how many in that same time span that die in car and other vehicle accidents, occupational accidents, electrocution, burning, poison, injury from animals, drowning, falls, malnutrition, assault by means other than firearms, medical malpractice, natural disasters, illnesses and diseases, etc.
Work on at least some of those and make a real impact on fatalities.

It is the place of no government to deny us this basic human function of self preservation or to restrict which tools we use to carry it out with.

I don’t know why this is so hard for some of us here to understand. I would think that being on the spectrum would give us all a better sense of logic in such simple things as this but I guess not.



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19 May 2008, 7:42 pm

Dox47 wrote;

Quote:
Depends on what you are defending yourself from. If you watch footage of the LA Rodney King riots, for example, you can see Korean shop owners on the roofs of their stores fending off hoards of looters with "assault" rifles. The mere presence of the weapons was enough of a deterrent to keep criminals away from theirs shops. I doubt they could have done that with pistols or shotguns, at least without firing a warning shot and or making an example of the first looter to test their resolve. Besides which, in this country at least, self defense is a legitimate reason to own a gun, and a military rifle is built for that exact purpose. You get into a real gray zone when you start down the road of assigning labels to things. I'm a certified gunsmith, I can modify a "target" rifle to perform in a similar if not better way than an "assault rifle", or build one from scratch given enough time. Legislation restricting firearms ownership does nothing to deter or prevent crime, it only deprives people like me of a legitimate hobby, and prevents me from effectively defending myself and my family.


Thank you!
I couldn’t have said it better.



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19 May 2008, 10:00 pm

Raptor wrote:
Dox47 wrote;
Quote:
Depends on what you are defending yourself from. If you watch footage of the LA Rodney King riots, for example, you can see Korean shop owners on the roofs of their stores fending off hoards of looters with "assault" rifles. The mere presence of the weapons was enough of a deterrent to keep criminals away from theirs shops. I doubt they could have done that with pistols or shotguns, at least without firing a warning shot and or making an example of the first looter to test their resolve. Besides which, in this country at least, self defense is a legitimate reason to own a gun, and a military rifle is built for that exact purpose. You get into a real gray zone when you start down the road of assigning labels to things. I'm a certified gunsmith, I can modify a "target" rifle to perform in a similar if not better way than an "assault rifle", or build one from scratch given enough time. Legislation restricting firearms ownership does nothing to deter or prevent crime, it only deprives people like me of a legitimate hobby, and prevents me from effectively defending myself and my family.


Thank you!
I couldn’t have said it better.


I remember seeing footage of those store owners defending themselves and they were using handguns.


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iamnotaparakeet
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19 May 2008, 10:59 pm

Silver_Meteor wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Dox47 wrote;
Quote:
Depends on what you are defending yourself from. If you watch footage of the LA Rodney King riots, for example, you can see Korean shop owners on the roofs of their stores fending off hoards of looters with "assault" rifles. The mere presence of the weapons was enough of a deterrent to keep criminals away from theirs shops. I doubt they could have done that with pistols or shotguns, at least without firing a warning shot and or making an example of the first looter to test their resolve. Besides which, in this country at least, self defense is a legitimate reason to own a gun, and a military rifle is built for that exact purpose. You get into a real gray zone when you start down the road of assigning labels to things. I'm a certified gunsmith, I can modify a "target" rifle to perform in a similar if not better way than an "assault rifle", or build one from scratch given enough time. Legislation restricting firearms ownership does nothing to deter or prevent crime, it only deprives people like me of a legitimate hobby, and prevents me from effectively defending myself and my family.


Thank you!
I couldn’t have said it better.


I remember seeing footage of those store owners defending themselves and they were using handguns.


Assault rifle overplayed or argument from different data? Firearms just the same, though a Katana would also keep most people away.



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19 May 2008, 11:03 pm

Raptor wrote:
I don’t know why this is so hard for some of us here to understand. I would think that being on the spectrum would give us all a better sense of logic in such simple things as this but I guess not.

How about tantrums and meltdowns? I would find a gun nearby when that happens to be very dangerous, but then, I am against gun ownership.


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19 May 2008, 11:43 pm

One of the reasons why I don't like guns. If the kid were any younger, like under 10, the father would have been charged instead.



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20 May 2008, 11:05 am

Peaceful people need 24/7 access to deadly weapons so that they may become deady people in the blink of an eye?

And the useless police force incapable of doing their jobs?

This is exactly why guns do not come out of vending machines in high school corridors, $1.50 each with 3 seconds of wait-time.

If only the most unstable people owned guns, they would in time become the police. Over the course of a few generations, there'd be a well-armed militia made of frothing psychopaths trumpeting their God-given right to guns. Riddling with bullets anyone who opposes them. Enter Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome.



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20 May 2008, 11:41 am

Quote:
I remember seeing footage of those store owners defending themselves and they were using handguns.


Not all of us were limited to only handguns. For that matter, not all of us were Korean.

Pops


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