Autistic five-year-old kicked out of restaurant

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It's kind of like contract law, you are not only paying for the food, but for the atmosphere and experience of the restaurant. By doing nothing about the screaming child, the restaurant is not holding up their end of the bargain, and is in violation of the implied contract. Threatening to withhold payment is the only real leverage the diner has in that situation, and they are fully justified in using it. The restaurant has a responsibility to it patrons, and that includes preserving the atmosphere for which they are paying.

If I was in the restaurant and heard a kid like that I would have run out before I got overwhelmed. I can't stand screaming little kids. Sure, I do have melt downs but only as a result of being overwhelmed or something similar, and then I am not screaming. Honestly, this is probably unrelated to Autism.

...yeah I know, where did I put that anywhere?

People are sitting here acting as though autism is being tossed around as an excuse when it's really in such scenerios intended to be a reason for what is going on.

My daughter does the same thing. I'm not going to act embarassed by my daughter either and NOT take her out. I do have my own methods to help her calm down which does involve going to the restroom, talking and repeating if necessary.

I also have my sweet tone of voice and not so sweet tone of voice. This is so she knows when I mean business.

I've been to places where people were just not very tolerant of kids period. Then I've been to places that were kid friendly and so as a customer who is ALSO tipping, if a waitress is going to pick sides and pin customers up against each other regarding kid vs. kidless...well I'm not going to give her a good tip.

If she or he was kind and patient she's going to get a good tip. Naturally if it's getting out of hand and if I were just sitting there not doing one thing about it and it was upsetting others, I would want to be told. No "hints" because I find hints to be rude. Flat out say "Hey look, please calm your child down because it's making other people's dining experience a bad one. There is a restroom around the corner if you must have a quiet place."

I wouldn't get upset (maybe other people might though). I would tell the waitress or waiter, thank you for being honest.

Kicking me out because some other customer wasn't going to pay over child screeching would make the me think the other person is using my child as an excuse for a free meal and that would make me annoyed enough to not go back or go tell that other customer to go piss off and the world doesn't revolve around just them and their money considering I'm paying to eat there too.


If I were the waitress and heard another customer claim they are going to refuse to pay, I would not take sides with that customer and turn against my other customer.

Last edited by catspurr on 02 Aug 2008, 3:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Thank you for the reply Dox47, and an interesting point you have made, I had not considered this.

This line(s) now come after a few minutes worth of consideration; I was not aware of the formal laws to support this, and also it was a non-violent form of protest which I can respect and commend at least.


--lee

If you are on the spectrum then why can't you remember what you were like as a child? How would you like it if your parents kept you locked inside the house all the time?

I remember quite well when I was a child and the experience of dining out.

Before we (me and my parents) were even seated (in my first few experiences of formal dining out), they explained to me that crying or screaming about things was not nice to the other people there and that my behavior was a reflection on them. They had my respect and love and I had theirs.

There was only one time I had a problem with the food in a restaurant, the starters were all fish (can't stand most fish except salmon). I was about five I think, I didn't have a tantrum or cry. I talked with my parents rather than screamed at them and it all got sorted, we decided to ask the waitress if it was ok for me to have something else. There was no tantrum.

A few incidents happened to me:

I was teaching sunday school and this new kid came. He did not do what the other children were asked to do. I stopped and waited. Then I asked another child to tell him to do what the other kids were doing. Then I asked him to participate and he refused instead hiding behind a door. The parents came and I told them that their child would not participate. They just said "haven't you heard of Asperger's syndrome?" I told them that I had Asperger's. I didn't really know what was going on.

The child was perfectly capable of sitting on the floor in a circle to listen to a story or sit at a desk and do some colouring or word match. The parents were definitely going to make this kid disabled for his whole life with their stupid excuses.

Another time I was in a restaurant with my friend who has cerebral palsy. We were enjoying our meals when a couple came up to our table. They were telling me -- talking pass my friend as is she couldn't hear or understand them --- saying that it was disgusting to watch the way my friend ate and chewed and that people like her should be locked up in institutions. I told them that we were there first and if they didn't like it, they could move to another table. The waiter and manager of the restaurant came and apologized to us and gave us a free desert.

Of course we were not screaming and kicking on the floor. If the kid is going to scream and disturb other patrons -- they should leave with her until she is calm. Likely something in the restaurant was causing the kid to scream: lighting, noise, too many other people nearby. If it was just the food, they could bring the child's own food -- the parents should know what is causing the meltdown and do what they can to prevent it. Sometimes the kids learn that screaming is the way to get what they want and they should be treated as any child who has a tantrum. I think there is a difference between a tantrum and a meltdown.

What were you like as a child MO2?

No one is saying lock your kid up. When I was a kid if I threw a tantrum in a restaurant I had to go sit in the car. My parents respected the people around them, and also wanted to teach me self control. I'd have to say that it worked fairly well, I don't think I ever did have to go sit in the car, the threat was enough.

Yeah but when you were a kid, your parent's wouldn't be threatened by the CPS and putting you in the car now would be considered abuse and you would be taken away.

I deal with my own daughter when it comes to restaurants but I'm giving the parents the benefit of a doubt in this situation because there have been some times when people would rudely inject their ugly responses even after getting the situation under control.

So let's see. We have people telling people how to parent yet their ideas of parenting could get their children taken away, we have people who hate kids now because they themselves don't like kids and don't see themselves ever having kids, we have this selfish ME ME ME mentality, we have kids that learn that all their parents are allowed to do thanks to the nanny police is give them time outs and take away their toys otherwise it's called abuse.

We aren't living in the 80's anymore. We are living in a politically correct dystopia. All they have managed to do is twist around a moral already there to have their way only for whoever they see fit when if people just followed the basic simple rule of treat others how you want to be treated, there wouldn't be such complications. Instead it's treat ONLY the people WE tell you to treat with respect, with respect.

See how exclusive it is?

Also, here on Wrong Planet, there seems to be alot of aspie adults who are tired of being treated like trash for being different and I think it should apply to kids and adults on the spectrum as well.

Yes children on the spectrum are prone to meltdowns. Sometimes it gets out of control and in a public situation if anyone is reading this and don't know how to handle it, pm me. The thing is this. Not just one method always works for all children. With my own child, one method works one day but that same method won't work the next day. That's why you have to come in with an assortment of methods. Plan A, Plan B, Plan C.

I see a problem with child intolerance in general but there is a whole system of flaws feeding it. Until parents also take a stand for their rights to discipline the way that works best for their child then these politically correct nanny nazi's who probably don't even have kids of their own are going to keep having their way and then more intolerance will form and less disciplined children.

I myself am worried about children on the spectrum being raised with such low expectations of themselves. I mean, the parents saying that the kid is an Aspie and that being an excuse for bad behavior (can't remember who said about that sry). How many other parents of A S kids think this?

I am also concerned with the parenting of N T kids as well sometimes. Incorrect parenting can cause any child to behave badly.


I've heard off my Mum that one of her customers used a method seen on tv, the child started to throw a tantrum and then the parent then pretended to throw a tantrum. The customer said it worked for her, the child looked at the mother puzzled and stopped mid-tantrum. I wouldn't say it would work with all kids but it may work in some (for once or twice), it may only work with N T kids. I don't know, just throwing the info out there. Let me know if it does work, thanks

I never threw temper tantrums that I know of. I exactly once copied the sound of someone else throwing one (I was young and in my very echolalic stage). My mother responded with something like overdone sympathy, and it so appalled me (and somehow left an impression of connection to what I'd just done, which was normally a difficult concept for me) that I never made that noise again. (I can imagine having turned out very spoiled if I liked that kind of attention, at least until my mom would have wised up.) My parents agree about this one.

I did however have meltdowns, which are an entirely different beast, and nothing on earth could stop them once started. They were definitely not about not getting my way though. My parents said I'd just continue screaming, sometimes for hours, and nothing they said or did, positive or negative, could make it stop, nor could they usually figure out why it was happening. (It was usually overload, pain, or both.)

Someone said on here that all kids have temper tantrums. I didn't, and that in itself is apparently one form of abnormal development autism can take. (Just like autistic babies can be extremely loud, like my brother, or extremely quiet, like me.) I wasn't any kind of angel because of this though, especially past puberty, when I had enough behavior problems that tantrums would've looked like a good thing in comparison. Not for lack of being disciplined though.

See, and this is why parents sometimes tell others their child is on the spectrum. It's not an excuse, it's a reason.

Just like someone else mentioned how the sound of child screaming hurts their ears and it's because of their autism, I could turn that around and say the person was just using it as an excuse when that is just apart of being on the spectrum.

Juniper, I used to throw tantrums with my daughter when she was two. It doesn't work anymore. It was fun while it lasted though. hahha

I know that my daughter throws both tantrums and has meltdowns. Meltdowns usually comes when transitioning from one place to the next like outdoors to inside or in restaurants, stores or telling her to go the other way. One time out in the middle of the road

It's hard for her to move on. Spotted this several months ago so told her to say "bye bye" to things that frustrated her or if we had to move on from outside and back in the house, would tell her to say bye bye outside.

It was working smoothly until recently. So now have had to add "bye bye outside...hello (pick favorite indoor toy or snack)" Now that works. She says bye bye outloud to the restaurants, the store any new place she once had difficulty with and would meltdown because it was hard for her to move on.

When it came to her melt down in the middle of the road even though it was hard to pick her up and luckily this street has hardly any traffic, a day later a car did come zooming by and my daughter was startled when walking down the sidewalk and used that as an opportunity to tell her that if she had been in the middle of the road, she would have been hit.

There is a difference between tantrum and meltdown. Somedays, she wakes up seeming a little more vibrant and doesn't throw tantrums or meltdown. Next day, getting her to do a simple task can result in a meltdown that can last for a really long time if I didn't get her to calm down. Sometimes just gotta turn off all sounds, not speak until you you can tell she's calmer even if still just a little upset.

Even through that, she knows her alphabet all the way through. She can count to 20, she's trying really hard to communicate more, she's helpful around the house with cleaning. She will help me if she sees me clean. She's showing interest in musical instruments, she's really good at lining up objects and she uses that to apply that to straightening up her play area. Overall, the positives outweigh the negatives.

Whatever your method, you need to be respectful of the people around you. In a restaurant, the patrons are paying to enjoy their meal, not listen to your child scream. It's not realistic for you to expect the rest of the world to revolve around your autistic child...out of consideration for others, you need to take the child out until you can get the meltdown under control. And if the parents don't have the common sense to do this, don't be surprised when restaurants ask them to leave.

Save your bitchy lecture for those who don't do anything about the meltdowns and tantrums.

Re-read what I've wrote.

Sorry you find my opinion "bitchy".

I did read what you wrote...





You seem to feel that restaurants are "picking sides" if they step in to address an out of control child who is disrupting other patrons. But customers have an obligation not to disturb others unduly and restaurants do have the right ensure that the atmosphere remains pleasant for all patrons.



The restaurant is trying to run a business...they are not there to provide an opportunity for your child to get out of the house, at the cost of running away other customers. No one suggested keeping autistic children locked up, but once the meltdown begins, take the child out.



Knowing the reason helps people understand that you are not a bad parent and that there is more going on than just a tantrum, but in the final analysis, the "reason" doesn't matter. The restaurant still needs parents to respond appropriately and will help them do so, if they don't manage it on their own.