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frenchmanflats
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08 Dec 2015, 9:55 pm

Edenthiel wrote:
frenchmanflats wrote:
nurseangela wrote:
Those who aren't religious or who haven't read the Bible will not know what's going on since it's a religious war.

You are correct. There is a war between Western, Democratic values versus Islamic, Radical, Sharia based values. Paris and San Bernardino highlighted this. This Islamic fundamentalism is coming straight from the Middle East.

Curious. What does that say about their morals and ethics (as a generalized group), verses that of atheists(again, grouped) or practitioners of religions that don't just preach "peace" but practice it as well?



The battle between Islamic Fundementalism and Christianity for hundreds of years. A very notable battle is the Battle of Tours in 732 where the Islamic invasion was stopped cold by Charles Martel.Later Christian chroniclers and pre-20th century historians praised Charles Martel as the champion of Christianity, characterizing the battle as the decisive turning point in the struggle against Islam, a struggle which preserved Christianity as the religion of Europe; according to modern military historians



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09 Dec 2015, 7:32 am

Sylkat wrote:
Dear Smudge, lots of us do some creative spelling, so go ahead and post!

:wink:


:D


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09 Dec 2015, 12:20 pm

frenchmanflats wrote:
Edenthiel wrote:
frenchmanflats wrote:
nurseangela wrote:
Those who aren't religious or who haven't read the Bible will not know what's going on since it's a religious war.

You are correct. There is a war between Western, Democratic values versus Islamic, Radical, Sharia based values. Paris and San Bernardino highlighted this. This Islamic fundamentalism is coming straight from the Middle East.

Curious. What does that say about their morals and ethics (as a generalized group), verses that of atheists(again, grouped) or practitioners of religions that don't just preach "peace" but practice it as well?



The battle between Islamic Fundementalism and Christianity for hundreds of years. A very notable battle is the Battle of Tours in 732 where the Islamic invasion was stopped cold by Charles Martel.Later Christian chroniclers and pre-20th century historians praised Charles Martel as the champion of Christianity, characterizing the battle as the decisive turning point in the struggle against Islam, a struggle which preserved Christianity as the religion of Europe; according to modern military historians


It only became the so called 'religion of Europe' after the Christians destroyed pre-existing pagan cultures, and forcibly converted people, coerced them to convert and killed many who refused however.


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09 Dec 2015, 12:27 pm

SweetLeaf, I agree with you on that point as, pagan or early religions had existed before Christianity came about both in Europe and even in the Middle East as well so, some things should not be seen as being around for eons..And yes, Christianity did a great deal of coercion or force conversion which, is not such a wonderful thing but, one that is relevant.


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09 Dec 2015, 12:30 pm

nurseangela wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
BenderRodriguez wrote:
^
That is an excellent post, my hat's off to the rational and calm manner in which you reacted, Dox.

As someone who lives in a country where people haven't forgot yet where racial profiling, fear mongering, mass hysteria and turning neighbour against neighbour lead to, I don't want to see such terrorist acts turning us into a police state, driven by fear, ignorance and disregard for the law, under the guise of "protecting our children"


Yeah that is my concern, I don't want a police state in the name of keeping us safe from 'terrorism'... rehetoric about turning muslims into second class citizens because there are Islam extremists is a wonderful first step to a police state were they start rounding up people to imprison and kill. You know first they start with the muslims, then maybe the mentally ill, than maybe anyone who looks like they could be a muslim or from the middle east and of course on and on and so forth.


(I really need to be studying, but I was checking my emails.)
Anyway, I agree with this too. The thing is if people don't want a police state and Marshall Law, then the only other way is to ban any and all gun restrictions and let the citizens arm themselves so they can at least have some form of protection from these bastards. (Kansas has already done this with no conceal carry licenses needed so actually anyone can carry - similar to the Old West.) Businesses and schools also need more weapons. Closing the borders will not help because these idiots are getting in by legal methods and have no records. There's also going to be a problem if you start having suicide bombers - there will be no protection from that. Freedom always comes with a cost.


Banning any and 'all' gun restrictions seems a little bit extreme I mean there still should be some regulation. Also not everyone who has a gun would know how to use it in an emergency situation...I think no regulations whatsoever could be problematic, but of course I think people should be able to arm/defend themselves. I also don't really agree with 'gun free' zones especially where there is no armed security.

Also I thought you were supporting this whole banning all Muslims from owning guns, isn't that quite the gun restriction itself?


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09 Dec 2015, 12:32 pm

Lukeda420 wrote:
nurseangela wrote:
That's not what ISIS is. ISIS is a religion whose goal is to bring about the end of Western Civilization (which is us) and to also bring back their "Mahdi" which is their "Jesus". They need to create as much havoc as possible in order to do this. This is a religious war. That's why all the Christians are being killed. They want to rule the world and have Sharia Law be the only religion. They hate our Western way of living (labeling us the Big Satan and Israel is the Little Satan). This is only going to get worse.

It's being talked about on the radio how they think Iran will send a nuclear weapon right over here blowing us up or causing an EMP. They are already backing out of the Nuclear Agreement set about 4 months ago - with Obama saying nothing.

http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/wor ... -own-terms


They're not just killing Christians. They're killing anyone who disagrees with them or stands in their way or just happens to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. They're even killing the Muslims that don't support them. ISIS is a cult based on the perversion of Islam.

^this.


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09 Dec 2015, 12:35 pm

Sylkat wrote:
Insanity is right;

Here is a woman raised in Pakistan in a culture which stones women to death for an accusation of adultery, a woman of intelligence and education.......

She finds and marries a man she loves, comes to America, a place of freedom like she has not experienced before, a nice home, a steady income, has a child she loves, and then throws this beautiful life away by killing people she has never met, being shot to death

Yep,
'Insanity' is an accurate word


There are people who have grown up here who have shot up schools, malls, movie theaters ect...thus throwing away their life of freedom and beauty as you put it. There are women from places like that who come here, have experienced this newfound freedom and proceeded not to go extreme and shoot up some place to as well. Why should someone like that be treated as a suspected terrorist because a person from that demographic turned out to be one?


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nurseangela
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09 Dec 2015, 2:10 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
nurseangela wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
BenderRodriguez wrote:
^
That is an excellent post, my hat's off to the rational and calm manner in which you reacted, Dox.

As someone who lives in a country where people haven't forgot yet where racial profiling, fear mongering, mass hysteria and turning neighbour against neighbour lead to, I don't want to see such terrorist acts turning us into a police state, driven by fear, ignorance and disregard for the law, under the guise of "protecting our children"


Yeah that is my concern, I don't want a police state in the name of keeping us safe from 'terrorism'... rehetoric about turning muslims into second class citizens because there are Islam extremists is a wonderful first step to a police state were they start rounding up people to imprison and kill. You know first they start with the muslims, then maybe the mentally ill, than maybe anyone who looks like they could be a muslim or from the middle east and of course on and on and so forth.


(I really need to be studying, but I was checking my emails.)
Anyway, I agree with this too. The thing is if people don't want a police state and Marshall Law, then the only other way is to ban any and all gun restrictions and let the citizens arm themselves so they can at least have some form of protection from these bastards. (Kansas has already done this with no conceal carry licenses needed so actually anyone can carry - similar to the Old West.) Businesses and schools also need more weapons. Closing the borders will not help because these idiots are getting in by legal methods and have no records. There's also going to be a problem if you start having suicide bombers - there will be no protection from that. Freedom always comes with a cost.


Banning any and 'all' gun restrictions seems a little bit extreme I mean there still should be some regulation. Also not everyone who has a gun would know how to use it in an emergency situation...I think no regulations whatsoever could be problematic, but of course I think people should be able to arm/defend themselves. I also don't really agree with 'gun free' zones especially where there is no armed security.

Also I thought you were supporting this whole banning all Muslims from owning guns, isn't that quite the gun restriction itself?


Howdy. I don't remember saying to ban all Muslims from owning guns - they are already getting them. I did say that all citizens of the US should be able to have any gun they want or need in able to arm themselves. I think I agreed with you also on not wanting a police state, but I think that we should stop all immigration (not just Muslims) until things cool down.


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09 Dec 2015, 2:14 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
Lukeda420 wrote:
nurseangela wrote:
That's not what ISIS is. ISIS is a religion whose goal is to bring about the end of Western Civilization (which is us) and to also bring back their "Mahdi" which is their "Jesus". They need to create as much havoc as possible in order to do this. This is a religious war. That's why all the Christians are being killed. They want to rule the world and have Sharia Law be the only religion. They hate our Western way of living (labeling us the Big Satan and Israel is the Little Satan). This is only going to get worse.

It's being talked about on the radio how they think Iran will send a nuclear weapon right over here blowing us up or causing an EMP. They are already backing out of the Nuclear Agreement set about 4 months ago - with Obama saying nothing.

http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/wor ... -own-terms


They're not just killing Christians. They're killing anyone who disagrees with them or stands in their way or just happens to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. They're even killing the Muslims that don't support them. ISIS is a cult based on the perversion of Islam.

^this.


I agree, but their main targets are Christians and Jews. If you remember the Oregon shooting at the college (that I do believe was a lone wolf) asked the ones he was going to shoot whether they were Christian or not then proceeded to kill the Christians and only wound the others that weren't by shooting them in the leg. I don't think many picked up on that or they just didn't talk about it much, but it scared the crap out of me because I knew now it was starting here.


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09 Dec 2015, 2:49 pm

nurseangela wrote:
If you remember the Oregon shooting at the college (that I do believe was a lone wolf) asked the ones he was going to shoot whether they were Christian or not then proceeded to kill the Christians and only wound the others that weren't by shooting them in the leg. I don't think many picked up on that or they just didn't talk about it much, but it scared the crap out of me because I knew now it was starting here.


You mean Christopher Harper-Mercer? The self hating guy whose mom said he had Aspergers and who identified as mixed race and as a white supremacist who believed he would be welcomed by the devil in hell? This wingnut did not sound like a Muslim to me. Do you have any evidence to support this idea? Or is this more Alex Jones type stuff?



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09 Dec 2015, 3:57 pm

I looked up the Umpqua College shooting, and I do not see anything Muslim-related or religion-related, but rather the actions of a severely disturbed individual.


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09 Dec 2015, 4:19 pm

I have to agree with Sylkat on the Umpqua college shooting as that was not religious based but, rather someone whom had various psychological issues going on.


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09 Dec 2015, 5:51 pm

If the battle of Tours was lost Arabs would probably have gone on to conquer much of Western Europe and turned it Muslim. As it took nearly 800 years for Christianity to reconquer just Spain, there is thus a strong possibility that Europe would have remained Muslim perhaps as far as the present day, with all that implies for world history since 732.
Defeat at Tours would have been a disaster for Christian France, and by extension the rest of Western Europe. Martel's reputation as a war leader and warrior would have been gone,even had he survived the battle, and the remaining Frankish territories would have freed themselves from the (limited) authority he had imposed over them through force in the previous decade. As no immediately available army was in place to confront the Arabs, they would then swiftly have overrun and conquered Southern France. Arab cavalry moved much more swiftly than the mainly infantry armies of the Franks at this period.



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09 Dec 2015, 5:59 pm

Adamantium wrote:
nurseangela wrote:
If you remember the Oregon shooting at the college (that I do believe was a lone wolf) asked the ones he was going to shoot whether they were Christian or not then proceeded to kill the Christians and only wound the others that weren't by shooting them in the leg. I don't think many picked up on that or they just didn't talk about it much, but it scared the crap out of me because I knew now it was starting here.


You mean Christopher Harper-Mercer? The self hating guy whose mom said he had Aspergers and who identified as mixed race and as a white supremacist who believed he would be welcomed by the devil in hell? This wingnut did not sound like a Muslim to me. Do you have any evidence to support this idea? Or is this more Alex Jones type stuff?


http://nypost.com/2015/10/01/oregon-gun ... g-rampage/


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09 Dec 2015, 7:37 pm

I read the article...

Still do not see a religious fanatic.

I still perceive a mentally ill person whom desperately need professional help, probably needed to be institutionalized, considering the rage he was carrying.

The two California murderers were apparently formerly devout Muslims who came under the influence of a very dangerous Apocalyptic group, and were brainwashed into committing a horrible act.

I personally do not see a parallel, except for fear and pain and destruction caused by someone's deliberate actions.


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09 Dec 2015, 9:57 pm

Very strange details coming about Enrique Marquez, the guy who is said to have purchased the rifles for the San Bernardino terrorists, and his aparently fraudulent marriage to the sister of the wife of Syed Rizwan Farook's brother...

http://abcnews.go.com/International/san ... d=35674749

The sense that I am getting of Marquez is of a sad and lonely guy who was used by the Farook family--they got him to buy their weapons for jihad and they got him to marry a woman from Russia so she could get into the country.

I thought this detail from the end of that article was particularly interesting:

Quote:
A family friend of Malik in Pakistan previously told ABC News the couple met through family members as early as 2009, but an attorney for Farook’s family has said the couple found each other online and only met in 2013.


This certainly raises the possibility that the whole family is lying. I think of the interviews Raheel and his wife gave a few days after the attack, denying all knowledge and find them less and less credible.