Emergence of a Deadly Coronavirus

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My concern is if the general public is made to use masks to go in public. The vast majority of the population have zero knowledge of masks so might get overconfident in the protective value of the ones they are wearing and compromise social distance or hygiene.

Apparently "even" an outbreak of the "common cold" ( many of which are caused by coronaviruses ), can cause a 6% increase in death rate in older people with underlying conditions, on certain wards in hospitals or care homes for example, and in younger immunosuppressed or with other illnesses. ....

But do the death records then list those deaths as caused by the common cold? No, because nobody takes colds that seriously, and the ( constantly changing ) "common cold" viruses are not on the official list of causes of death.

But Covid19 on the other hand has been put on the official list of causes of death.

Imagine how scared people would become of catching a cold, if they did the same with the cold viruses, if colds were officially classified as causes of death ... because they are a contributory factor in deaths, exactly like this new coronavirus ...

Imagine, as a few of the doctors and scientists quoted in the blog/journal are doing, what effect this virus would have had if no one had been scared of it, no health workers self-isolating/having to leave work for 7-14 days and depleting the staff levels because of suspected/mild cases of it, no one using more protective equipment than usual, no one cut off from family and friends, no one forced to stay indoors, give up their bowling in the square, their table on a sunny cafe terrace, their shopping for fresh fruit and vegetables at the market, their little local round/regular visits etc, no one old and weak and suddenly cut off from other people/family told that they tested positive for a virus which had caused China to quarantine a whole city it was so virulent ... which information might actually cause or hasten death because of its nocibo effect ( the opposite of placebo ).

And imagine if people paid this much attention to colds, and their effects on the old and already ill. ...

I'm also thinking that the extra use of oxygen may be because patients testing positive for coronavirus are being treated with more urgency/as higher priority and with greater expenditure of effort and resources than old already very ill people might otherwise have been treated, because scarier, more "reported"/closely observed, and more "loaded" with imagined implications for wider population.

I think that the doctors like the second one in the "12 experts questioning the coronavirus panic" piece ( linked to at the bottom of the first of the above articles ) are quite reasonably aghast at how this is playing out, at this emperor's new clothes story. It really is extraordinary how a combination of elements has conspired to create the illusion of a dangerous new disease and no one has been able to dispel that illusion and halt the crazy destructive reactions to it.

Unfortunately it may be a very long time before this effect wears off or is exposed because so long as this new cold remains on the official list of causes of death and deaths "with it" are included in lists of "Covid deaths" its apparent death toll is going to continue to rise exponentially, even if massively increased testing begins to show that it is only a small percentage of cases that seem to end in death. At what % will they decide to dismantle the lockdowns and other human rights infringements?

Have you heard about the South African police firing rubber bullets at the shoppers queuing too close together, or the people reporting their neighbours to the police for breaking lockdown rules, or the local being told to go home by police in his French village when he was obediently keeping to the 1km or less radius for exercise, or the 50% increase in cases of domestic abuse/violence against women and children, or the people breaking down in panic because no money for food etc? !

And I'm thinking that one of the reasons for the extreme reaction by the Chinese government in Wuhan may ironically be the exact same thing that led to internet conspiracy theories about coronavirus being a biological weapon, which is that Wuhan is where the Chinese government has its one and only level 4 approved/authorised disease research laboratories; ie they were afraid that the novel/new virus might be connected, by terrible accident, a leak or contamination etc, to their work in the labs there, and that it might be a truly terrible plague.

And I think that another couple of reasons for this level of reaction worldwide/in the west might be that for several years now anxiety and stress levels have been rising; inequality and the unhappiness and mental illness that extreme inequality has been shown to lead to has been increasing and this virus is something apparently simple to concentrate all that fear/worry and unhappiness on, and as I said before a lot of people have been *wanting" something like this to happen, longing for something big to disrupt everything because individual humans no longer seem to have the power to change anything ... This virus feels like a sort of saviour god, a Thor come with his hammer to shake things up and crush the baddies, and like all gods sacrifices are required, rituals must be observed.

This response is archetypal stuff.

But completely unscientific, and not scientifically justified.

Last edited by ouinon2 on 29 Mar 2020, 1:44 am, edited 2 times in total.

I guess we crossed each other. I posted his source video on the other thread. This guy basically says exactly everything that I have said here. In particular, he tells people to wear a mask when going out, and that any mask would do, that there is no need to use a medical-grade mask. I have been saying these things for weeks by now, but somehow it doesn't get into people's heads. (The video is a bit long, but take a look starting from 11:48).

In their great wisdom they decided to reduce the number of hours grocery stores are open.

Meaning they are going to be more crowded.

Their next brilliant maneuver will probably be to completely shutdown half the stores leading to even more crowding.

Indeed. It's absurd.

My concern is that there are not enough mask to go around at this minute. I would be happy if everyone in the world had an N95 mask to use intermittently when they are up and about and each member of the medical community had a big box of them. Production is ramping up but is running into problems.

What if Australia receives a shipment of N95s this week and the medical community sees an uptick in the number of cases and deaths? Now if these mask came from China and failed to meet the standards? What do you do?

Is the problem due to a design flaw? Is the problem due to a manufacturing flaw? Is the problem due to a material provider problem? Is the problem due to a substitution?

Is the problem overzealous inspectors?
Generally when a specification is written, the specification allows a little wriggle room. So does the product even though it might fail the spec, still meet the intent, the actual real world requirements?

Where is the flaw?

Can the masks delivered be quickly tested separating out good product from failed product?

Production is often mass produced which provides a quality product at a minimal cost. But manufacturing process is not totally written down. There is always a little bit of secret sauce that goes into it. Some guy on the subbasement floor that does one thing that makes the whole process work. Without him everything falls apart. Suppose this guy in China contracted the coronavirus and died. No more secret sauce.

And the other concern is that China sustained a massive pandemic. Is it over in China? If not, is someone inspecting the PPE to ensure that it is virus free? This PPE is a critical component for the medical community to perform their job. Is it safe?

The news story does not just describe a Dutch problem but rather a global problem at the moment.

Last edited by jimmy m on 29 Mar 2020, 9:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

I think they did that so they would have more hours to restock and disinfect.Otherwise it makes no sense.

That is what he is saying.

^ Agreed Misslizard. That is exactly what is supposed to be happening.

Our grocery store cleans all night long. It is allowing only seniors in the store from 7 am to 8 am, then everyone else can come in.

Meat and eggs are being rationed by the store.

People are maintaining their six feet distance for the most part.

Regarding the common cold: the reason no one pays so much attention to it now is because the cold viruses are fairly well understood.

The new coronavirus we do not know enough about. It is an unexpected and unknown and that is always more disturbing to people.

The only logic I can see to this is that their employees complained of both greater risk to exposure and the fact that schools/daycares are closed indefinitely they likely dont havr anyone to watch their kids while they work.

I dont know how businesses operate-- but maybe it could have been adjustwd to more fréquent shift changeovers to mitigate these problems, instead of reduced store hours.

To be honest in Canada... Ontario at least... Life is going on as usual (most stores open, people venturing out , reasonable degree of precautions, restaurants doing delivery instead of dine-in) but
1. Restaurants fired more ppl because of this
2. Small businesses too. My XH said he had to use numbers to select a bunch of people to get fired since thé business suffered

Here is a little more about the recent French study of 80 patients.

The French research team that was led by the epidemiologist, Didier Raoult, just posted online, this study offers more hope that the combination of hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin is helping COVID-19 patients.

Now, this was a study of 80 patients, more than double the size Professor Oz's earlier study had, but it's still not controlled. Nevertheless, 54 of the patients had CT scans for COVID pneumonia. Only three of them required an ICU, and the median age was 52, that's fairly young. About two-thirds or so had underlying medical conditions, and the results were stunning.

This is what it said, in part. "By administrating hydroxychloroquine combined with azithromycin, we were able to observe an improvement in all cases, except in one patient who arrived with an advanced form, who was over the age of 86 and in whom the evolution was irreversible. For all other patients in this cohort of 80 people, the combination of hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin resulted in a clinical improvement that appeared significant when compared to the natural evolution in patients with a definite outcome, as described in the literature."

Source: Coronavirus task force member Adm. Brett Giroir reacts to new study on hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin

I came across an article with coronavirus advise:

Opening your Amazon boxes and other online orders

One week before the news broke that at least 10 Amazon warehouse facilities had workers infected with the coronavirus, I warned my audience not to simply pull out a box-cutter and grab their orders out of a box. You can’t do that anymore. Lots of people touch your online orders.

Think about it. There are the people who packed the order, the ones who load the trucks and the final deliverer to your home. Technically, the virus could last for up to 24 hours on cardboard.

Only open your Amazon boxes, or other online orders, outside and immediately throw the box away. If you have latex gloves, use them. Clean the wrapping off the items you ordered and the item itself with disinfectant wipes. Make sure you’re using chemicals that are known to kill the coronavirus. Tap or click here to see the list.

Remove the gloves and rely on the CDC’s top recommendation. Wash your hands for at least 20 seconds in hot soapy water.

Paying for your purchases

It’s not wise to hand over your debit or credit card anymore for your purchases. You don’t know when the person handling it last washed his or her hands. Even worse, the person could be infected or an asymptomatic carrier.

Here’s where tech helps. First, set up your phone to use Apple Pay, Google Pay, or Samsung Pay. Think of it like a digital wallet in your phone that replaces your physical wallet. It contains your debit or credit card number.

When you’re done shopping and paying for your purchases, unlock your phone by using your face or entering your passcode. Tap your phone on the reader at the cash register, and like magic, you’re done. The charge will be processed using the debit or credit card you entered into your digital wallet.

Taking an Uber or Lyft

How fabulous has it been to open your phone, tap an app, and have someone ready to take you anywhere in a few minutes? During the pandemic, ride-sharing services have been deemed “essential” in many areas transporting medical personnel and the vulnerable around. But does this mean it’s safe to take an Uber or Lyft?

When you get into a car, you simply cannot comply with the CDC’s social distance rule of keeping six feet away from anyone else. Some drivers are using disinfectants after each rider, but there’s no way to know if it was done correctly or that it even happened. Avoid ride-shares if you can.

Getting meals and food delivered

Online meal home delivery companies such as Blue Apron, Hello Fresh, and Home Chef see a surge in orders. It makes sense because we’re all holed-up and need to eat.

Even though you ordered online, human hands put the boxes together that contain the meat, sides, vegetables, spices, instructions, and more. This advice is your groceries delivered, too. According to the CDC, there is no evidence food can infect you. Health officials still urge people to carefully clean packaging and to wash fruits and vegetables as a precaution.

When you receive your package, wear latex gloves and wipe the box down with disinfecting wipes. Open the package outside and throw the box away. If it’s a shelf-stable item, wipe it down with a disinfectant and put it in a safe area separate from the rest of your food. Let it sit for one to three days.

If your item is perishable, wipe down the container with disinfectant and put it in the refrigerator immediately. Try to isolate it from other items in your fridge. Wait one to three days, then wipe it down again before opening. Any fresh ingredients like fruits or vegetables should be carefully washed with soap immediately before storage and wash again before consuming.

If the item is something you need to eat right away, follow similar rules. Use latex gloves, sanitize the container it came in, and use clean kitchen utensils to transfer the food to a clean plate or bowl. Discard the containers, any plasticware, condiments, and napkins.

Source containing useful links: Sanitizing Amazon boxes, taking Uber and getting food properly during the coronavirus pandemic

See this is exactly what I meant ..

Covid19s main threat and the reason for all these precautions isnt deaths at all. Not so much as the treatment( prior to recovery ) overloading the medical system in the meantime and hurting patients overall regardless of the reason they need assistance..

My friend Rose (she has Aspergers and Ehler Danlos syndrome and Fibromyalgia l
got her IV thing for blood sugar stability taken away by government


because it is a non essential item according to them

beyond the capacity (in British Columbia) as the medical system..they dont have the $$ while dealing with the strain covid19 has put on.. She has to try and manage as best she can with pedialyte

Using the antibodies in blood from recovered patients to fight the coronavirus.

The research, published in the Journal of the American Medical Association, looked at five patients in Shenzhen, China who were deemed "critically ill." The experts found that giving them an experimental plasma transfusion that contained a "neutralizing antibody" helped in their recovery.

"These preliminary findings raise the possibility that convalescent plasma transfusion may be helpful in the treatment of critically ill patients with COVID-19 and ARDS, but this approach requires evaluation in randomized clinical trials," researchers wrote.

Though extremely limited in scope, with further research required, the findings do represent potential.

All five of the patients — who were between the ages of 36 and 65, including two women — were on ventilators at the time of treatment and had previously received "antiviral agents and methylprednisolone."

After they received the plasma transfusion, four of the five patients had body temperatures return to normal "within three days," their Sequential Organ Failure Assessment (SOFA) score decreased and the ratio of arterial oxygen partial pressure to fractional inspired oxygen (also known as the PaO2/FiO2 ratio or Carrico index and the PF ratio) increased within 12 days.

Four of the five patients saw their acute respiratory issues resolve within 12 days after receiving the plasma transfusion and three of them were taken off ventilators within two weeks of treatment. Three patients were eventually discharged and the other two are in stable condition.

The study was published after New York State recently announced it would also attempt to fight the pandemic using the blood plasma of recovered patients.

Source: Blood of recovered coronavirus patients could be used to help 'critically ill patients,' study suggests

I’m just so very scared .. my anxiety levels are through the roof