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blooiejagwa
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02 Apr 2020, 10:17 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:
EMTs have stopped taking people in cardiac arrest to coronavirus-strained hospitals
Quote:
Cardiac arrest victims whose hearts cannot be restarted at the scene are now being left there — rather than being brought to coronavirus-strained hospitals for further revival attempts, according to a new guidance for medical responders.

The Regional Emergency Medical Services Council of New York, which oversees the city’s ambulance service, issued the guidance on Tuesday in a letter obtained by The Post.

Previously, people whose hearts could not be restarted on the scene would be brought to the hospital.

But the new guidance is a grim calculus that’s meant to save lives, one veteran EMS worker told The Post.

“They’re trying to do what they can with the people who have the most likely chance of being saved,” the worker said.

Under the rule, “if you can’t get revived on scene, that’s it. They’re going to work on you, but if they can’t get a pulse back, they won’t transport you” to the hospital, the worker explained.

The decree — which took effect immediately — comes as city ERs and intensive care units are swollen with critically ill coronavirus patients.

Paramedics will still render aid at the scene under the directive.

Artificial ventilation and/or compressions must not be delayed,” the memo states, adding that chest “compressions must begin as soon as it is determined the patient does not have a pulse.”

But the guidelines change if the patient cannot be revived before arriving at a hospital.

“No adult non-traumatic or blunt traumatic cardiac arrest is to be transported to a hospital with manual or mechanical compression in progress without either return of spontaneous circulation (ROSC) or a direct order from a medical control physician unless there is imminent physical danger to the EMS provider on the scene,” the directive said.

“In the event a resuscitation is terminated, and the body is in public view, the body can be left in the custody of the NYPD.”

EMS workers were told to call an “NYPD DOA Removal” telephone number if the cops are delayed getting to the scene.

The Post revealed Wednesday that the NYPD was considering a volunteer “DOA Team” of detectives to retrieve the bodies of coronavirus victims as the number of fatalities from the deadly pandemic continues to grow.

Officials said Wednesday that the death toll from the virus was at 1,374 with more than 45,000 cases.

The Regional Emergency Medical Services Council did not respond to a request for comment.

I do not recall this or a field hospital being set up in Central Park during any flu outbreak.



Coronavirus-stricken Chris Cuomo says he chipped a tooth while shivering
Quote:
Coronavirus-stricken CNN anchor Chris Cuomo was shivering so severely Tuesday night that he chipped a tooth, he revealed on-air Wednesday while describing his symptoms.

“I’ve never had anything like it,” Cuomo, the younger brother of New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo, said as he broadcast from the basement of his home.

“I never experienced any kind of fever like what I have going on all the time, and the body aches, and the tremors and the concern about not being able to do anything about it.”

The younger Cuomo tested positive for the disease Tuesday.

Talking on air Wednesday to CNN’s chief medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, Cuomo, 49, acknowledged his chipped tooth.

“You had these rigors … so bad, that I think you chipped a tooth,” said Gupta, who was recalling the symptoms Cuomo was experiencing as the two talked on the phone Tuesday night.

“Yes,” Cuomo interjected.

Wednesday was the second consecutive day Cuomo worked from home with the bug.

Gupta assured Cuomo that it’s okay to take a day off.

“You’re totally right,” Cuomo said. “You gotta take care of yourself first or you can’t take care of anybody else.”

Despite the serious symptoms, Cuomo said “it’s been a great day” since finding out neither his wife nor kids have tested positive for the coronavirus.


My dad sent me a fwd from a supposed dr in Italy saying they turn away the cardiac arrest etc patient favouring corona patients as they were unprepared fr this emergency. Then wheb the patient dies they label it as them as having died of Covid19. No idea whether this is true. :?


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jimmy m
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02 Apr 2020, 10:24 am

There was another interesting article on coronavirus models. Models are an imperfect tool. They are based on many assumptions, best guesses. They rely on the data that fed into them to be accurate. But there is a trend in society that once the government latches onto a model that it attacks any competing models. There is a level of scientific intolerance.

One of the paradoxes of the coronavirus crisis is that the need for public scrutiny of government policy has never been greater, but there’s less tolerance for dissent than usual.

I’m thinking in particular of the work of Professor Neil Ferguson and his team at Imperial College London, which has done so much to inform the government’s decision-making. Remember, it was Professor Ferguson’s prediction last month that an extra 250,000 would die if the government didn’t impose extreme social distancing measures that led to the lockdown last week [in Great Britain].

Anyone questioning Professor Ferguson’s analysis is likely to be met with a tsunami of opposition. Witness the furious reaction provoked by Professor Sunetra Gupta and her team at Oxford University when they published a paper suggesting half the UK’s population could already have been infected. The Financial Times printed a critical letter co-signed by a group of scientists that was reminiscent of left-wing academics denouncing one of their colleagues for dissenting from woke orthodoxy. They used the word ‘dangerous’ in their description of the Oxford research, as if merely challenging Imperial’s model would cost lives, and Professor Ferguson has made the same argument to condemn other critics of his work. ‘It is ludicrous, frankly, to suggest that the severity of this virus is comparable to seasonal flu — ludicrous and dangerous,’ he said.

But it’s only ‘dangerous’ to question his research if you take for granted that it is correct. What if the claim that 40 million people would have died if the world had carried on as normal is wrong? The Oxford modelling was criticised on the grounds that many of the assumptions made by Professor Gupta were ‘speculative’ and had no ‘empirical justification’, but the same is true of the Imperial model. The FT’s Jemima Kelly said Oxford’s research should be taken with a large dose of salt because it was ‘not yet peer reviewed’, but Imperial’s paper hasn’t been peer reviewed either. As John Ioannidis, professor in disease prevention at Stanford University, has pointed out, some of the major assumptions and estimates that are built into the Imperial model — such as the case fatality rate — ‘seem to be substantially inflated’.

A more prudent approach would be for the government not to place too much confidence in any one model, but to encourage different teams of experts to come up with predictions of their own and challenge their rivals. That’s the tried-and-tested scientific method and it has been bizarre to see respected pundits and senior politicians simultaneously argue that we should be strictly guided by ‘the science’ and that any scientist expressing dissent from the prevailing orthodoxy is behaving ‘irresponsibly’. Wasn’t that precisely the same argument used by the Chinese authorities for silencing the doctors who first raised the alarm in Wuhan? Shutting down dissent during an actual war might make sense, but in a war against a virus it is vital that we should stick to the scientific method. As Sir Karl Popper said: ‘The point is that whenever we propose a solution to a problem, we ought to try as hard as we can to overthrow our solution, rather than defend it.’

Source: Dissent Over Coronavirus Research Isn’t Dangerous – But Stifling Debate Is


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beneficii
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02 Apr 2020, 10:43 am

EzraS wrote:
beneficii wrote:
EzraS wrote:
There are several people who post here who don't think this is of any significance and are tired of hearing people "whining about the economy".


It sounds like you've got an agenda.


WTF? You act so damn weird towards me. I should have known better than to reply to one of your posts.


You were complaining about several posters on here, without naming names but still in such a way that everyone knows who you're talking about. At least have the guts to name names if you're going to do that. Otherwise, you're just passive-aggressively wimping out.


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02 Apr 2020, 11:00 am

blooiejagwa wrote:
My dad sent me a fwd from a supposed dr in Italy saying they turn away the cardiac arrest etc patient favouring corona patients as they were unprepared fr this emergency. Then wheb the patient dies they label it as them as having died of Covid19. No idea whether this is true. :?


There sure are uncertain things going on in Italy.



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02 Apr 2020, 11:01 am

jimmy m wrote:
There was another interesting article on coronavirus models. Models are an imperfect tool. They are based on many assumptions, best guesses. They rely on the data that fed into them to be accurate. But there is a trend in society that once the government latches onto a model that it attacks any competing models. There is a level of scientific intolerance.

One of the paradoxes of the coronavirus crisis is that the need for public scrutiny of government policy has never been greater, but there’s less tolerance for dissent than usual.

I’m thinking in particular of the work of Professor Neil Ferguson and his team at Imperial College London, which has done so much to inform the government’s decision-making. Remember, it was Professor Ferguson’s prediction last month that an extra 250,000 would die if the government didn’t impose extreme social distancing measures that led to the lockdown last week [in Great Britain].

Anyone questioning Professor Ferguson’s analysis is likely to be met with a tsunami of opposition. Witness the furious reaction provoked by Professor Sunetra Gupta and her team at Oxford University when they published a paper suggesting half the UK’s population could already have been infected. The Financial Times printed a critical letter co-signed by a group of scientists that was reminiscent of left-wing academics denouncing one of their colleagues for dissenting from woke orthodoxy. They used the word ‘dangerous’ in their description of the Oxford research, as if merely challenging Imperial’s model would cost lives, and Professor Ferguson has made the same argument to condemn other critics of his work. ‘It is ludicrous, frankly, to suggest that the severity of this virus is comparable to seasonal flu — ludicrous and dangerous,’ he said.

But it’s only ‘dangerous’ to question his research if you take for granted that it is correct. What if the claim that 40 million people would have died if the world had carried on as normal is wrong? The Oxford modelling was criticised on the grounds that many of the assumptions made by Professor Gupta were ‘speculative’ and had no ‘empirical justification’, but the same is true of the Imperial model. The FT’s Jemima Kelly said Oxford’s research should be taken with a large dose of salt because it was ‘not yet peer reviewed’, but Imperial’s paper hasn’t been peer reviewed either. As John Ioannidis, professor in disease prevention at Stanford University, has pointed out, some of the major assumptions and estimates that are built into the Imperial model — such as the case fatality rate — ‘seem to be substantially inflated’.

A more prudent approach would be for the government not to place too much confidence in any one model, but to encourage different teams of experts to come up with predictions of their own and challenge their rivals. That’s the tried-and-tested scientific method and it has been bizarre to see respected pundits and senior politicians simultaneously argue that we should be strictly guided by ‘the science’ and that any scientist expressing dissent from the prevailing orthodoxy is behaving ‘irresponsibly’. Wasn’t that precisely the same argument used by the Chinese authorities for silencing the doctors who first raised the alarm in Wuhan? Shutting down dissent during an actual war might make sense, but in a war against a virus it is vital that we should stick to the scientific method. As Sir Karl Popper said: ‘The point is that whenever we propose a solution to a problem, we ought to try as hard as we can to overthrow our solution, rather than defend it.’

Source: Dissent Over Coronavirus Research Isn’t Dangerous – But Stifling Debate Is


I have never been a fan of models. Whether it be for this or climate change.



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02 Apr 2020, 11:02 am

Matt Stoller I think has a good piece here:

Quote:
The bill places immense power in the hands of a few actors, who will organize these programs and manage which financial institutions move the money into our commercial realm. Treasury secretary Steven Mnuchin has discretion over essentially unlimited financing for banks and big businesses, with aid from Federal Reserve chair Jay Powell, Small Business Administration head Jovita Carranza, and labor secretary Eugene Scalia.

In other words, government control over large swaths of the economy is our new normal. We are now living in a planned economy in which the financial futures of American families and businesses alike will be purely a function of political choices by Donald Trump’s cabinet. Our success in combating the coronavirus and restarting our economy depends on those decisions, and on the political pressure we the people apply in response.

While it’s tempting to see this bailout package as being similar to that of 2008, the analogy is flawed. During the Great Recession, the bailouts of Wall Street were an attempt to keep private credit flowing. The coronavirus relief bill, however, is an explicit takeover of Main Street-level activity by the state. It’s hard to wrap your mind around the ideological change that has taken place. Before this disease, Democrats were deeply skeptical of power grabs by the Trump administration. Today, Democrats are angry the President isn’t more aggressively commandeering private corporations and forcing them to make medical supplies. Think about what it means in a capitalist society for the government to take over the means of production. Now think about what it means for Democrats to demand that Trump seize more executive authority. Both of those things just happened.

America has been here before, though not in most of our lifetimes. The last time America operated in a planned political economy was during the Korean War. The Defense Production Act is, in fact, a relic of that period—an attempt to ensure that the government could mobilize production to meet the needs of the public during an emergency. The country’s previous experience with this offers a few lessons we need to internalize as we transition into a temporarily planned economy.


https://www.wired.com/story/the-relief- ... d-economy/

At the same time, on Twitter, Stoller complains that only the Republicans want to actually govern; the Democrats aren't actually interested in power.


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02 Apr 2020, 11:21 am

EzraS wrote:
blooiejagwa wrote:
My dad sent me a fwd from a supposed dr in Italy saying they turn away the cardiac arrest etc patient favouring corona patients as they were unprepared fr this emergency. Then wheb the patient dies they label it as them as having died of Covid19. No idea whether this is true. :?

There sure are uncertain things going on in Italy.

Probably lots of chaos.


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blooiejagwa
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02 Apr 2020, 11:27 am

My family sending doomsday style messages considering the financial impact. Doomsday had to happen sometime. Might as well be in our lifetime.


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blooiejagwa
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02 Apr 2020, 11:30 am

magz wrote:
EzraS wrote:
blooiejagwa wrote:
My dad sent me a fwd from a supposed dr in Italy saying they turn away the cardiac arrest etc patient favouring corona patients as they were unprepared fr this emergency. Then wheb the patient dies they label it as them as having died of Covid19. No idea whether this is true. :?

There sure are uncertain things going on in Italy.

Probably lots of chaos.


.Good News for Pakistan

A medical doctor in Italy explains why subcontinental people have better immunity and that many patients in Italy/Europe are being labeled as dying due to Corona virus, even though they died to Ischemic Heart Disease or other illnesses:

"My name is Ahmad Bashir. I did my MBBS in 1996 from King Edward Medical College, Lahore and presently I am a PULMONOLOGIST (specialist in diseases of the lungs). I am here in Italy since 2002.

After some years in Rome, I have been in Milan since the last 12 – 13 years. Since the Corona pandemic, I have been on duty in hospital. Let me tell you of the situation in Italy:

There is not an emergency in hospitals of Italy BUT a WAR like situation. Not only doctors, nurses and paramedical staff are on duty, but also 2nd year medical students are also working around the clock here as doctors.

I don’t know what is the correct impression in the outside world, but I believe Italian government made a very bad crisis management probably because it wasn’t prepared for it. People may not believe me, but what I saw is as follows:

In Milan, no other patient besides Corona is being entertained. The other night, a 50 year old came with cardiac arrest in the emergency. Doctors gave him some tablets, even though he required a stent. He died after one hour. When his dead body went out, he was also declared as to have died of the corona virus.

This is the normal routine everyday now. Two patients on dialysis were also labeled to have died due to the corona virus. The actual number of deaths due to the corona virus are very limited. Almost every dead body coming out of the hospital is being labeled as a corona patient.

One can verify all this from independent media. There are lot of people of the subcontinent here in Italy. To my knowledge not a single Indian or Pakistani died due to the Corona virus itself. I have told this to CureVac also.

Common cold virus is being addressed differently in different regions. People of the Subcontinent including Pakistan, India, Bangladesh, Afghanistan, probably due to the dirty atmosphere have the common cold at an average of seven attacks per year as compared to three or less in other areas.

This may have been a blessing in disguise as this may have increased the immunity of the population in these areas. Many are showing genetic resistance or immunity to the virus. Even the people of the subcontinent born in Italy have shown better immunity among the overall Italian public.

Because Pakistan is my home country, I am surprised at the panic there. From the behavioural studies of the virus, we can say that with the prevailing climate, atmosphere etc in Indo-Pak the natural cure is already there.

I pray that you spread this message and be free of the panic and misunderstanding. Ameen.”

Translated from Urdu.


I leave it to your discernment ..


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02 Apr 2020, 11:36 am

beneficii wrote:
EzraS wrote:
beneficii wrote:
EzraS wrote:
There are several people who post here who don't think this is of any significance and are tired of hearing people "whining about the economy".


It sounds like you've got an agenda.


WTF? You act so damn weird towards me. I should have known better than to reply to one of your posts.


You were complaining about several posters on here, without naming names but still in such a way that everyone knows who you're talking about. At least have the guts to name names if you're going to do that. Otherwise, you're just passive-aggressively wimping out.


No I was just mentioning something I had observed with no agenda attached. The nonsense you described is what is going on in your head, not mine. I think you have psychological issues, when it comes to me at least and I find it a bit creepy. Was that bold enough for you, or should I expound further?



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02 Apr 2020, 11:39 am

Exponential growth in NY suburbs

Quote:
Gov. Andrew Cuomo said it was "troubling news" to see a rising tide of coronavirus cases in suburbs like Nassau County, which are less dense than New York City, as the state reported a total of 8,669 new positives Thursday morning.

More than 92,000 New Yorkers have tested positive for the COVID-19 virus so far, the state figures show.

But Nassau County saw a third day of new positives, registering 1,033 additional coronavirus cases since Wednesday for a total of 10,587 county residents who have been infected since the start of the outbreak, the new figures showed.

The state figures also showed that Suffolk County had a high number of new positives, with 1,141 additional cases since Wednesday for a total of 8,746 diagnoses since the crisis started.

"Those numbers are concerning and we are watching those ... That is troubling news," Cuomo said.

Altogether, Long Island has now had 19,333 confirmed coronavirus cases since the outbreak's start, with 2,174 new positives since Wednesday.

I live in Nassau County and my theory as to why this is, is based on antidotal observations. Looking at NYC traffic cams the streets while not completely empty resemble 6AM on a Sunday morning. That is not the case here while not rush hour traffic there are plenty of cars on the road, like a normal weekday in between rush hours I would say. Most working people are home and all school kids are. Between families walking together and groups of kids playing and people walking their dogs there are noticeably more people out and about on the side streets then normal. Not that there is no social distancing people do walk away from me but people are too comfortable with people they know. IMHO when NYC is flattening or even dropping Long Island will still be having exponential growth. Cuomo and local officials need to bar all social outdoor activities. One should only be allowed outside for medical reasons, food one can not obtain online in a timely matter and SOLO exercise.

On a personal note my sister in law’s Uncle died from coronavirus. Even as a non social person I expect he will be far from the last person I know that is or will contract it and will not at all be surprised if one of those persons is me.


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Last edited by ASPartOfMe on 02 Apr 2020, 1:48 pm, edited 5 times in total.

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02 Apr 2020, 11:41 am

beneficii wrote:
EzraS wrote:
beneficii wrote:
EzraS wrote:
There are several people who post here who don't think this is of any significance and are tired of hearing people "whining about the economy".


It sounds like you've got an agenda.


WTF? You act so damn weird towards me. I should have known better than to reply to one of your posts.


You were complaining about several posters on here, without naming names but still in such a way that everyone knows who you're talking about. At least have the guts to name names if you're going to do that. Otherwise, you're just passive-aggressively wimping out.


I believe it's against the rules to confront people by name or on an individual basis since that kind of approach can be taken by some as a direct attack on them personally.

Example: "Some people seem to be overly sensitive on WP." This is Ok. It's an opinion.

Example #2: "[ name of specific WP member ], you're overly sensitive." I could be wrong if mods want to clarify, but I think this isn't Ok to do.



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02 Apr 2020, 11:43 am

I feel 9 million unemployed is a cause for alarm.

Once this is over, most people will get their jobs back—but how many, actually?



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02 Apr 2020, 11:46 am

That probably largely depends on how many businesses are unable to recover.



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02 Apr 2020, 11:50 am

EzraS wrote:
beneficii wrote:
EzraS wrote:
beneficii wrote:
EzraS wrote:
There are several people who post here who don't think this is of any significance and are tired of hearing people "whining about the economy".


It sounds like you've got an agenda.


WTF? You act so damn weird towards me. I should have known better than to reply to one of your posts.


You were complaining about several posters on here, without naming names but still in such a way that everyone knows who you're talking about. At least have the guts to name names if you're going to do that. Otherwise, you're just passive-aggressively wimping out.




let's not have bickering on the thread.


No I was just mentioning something I had observed with no agenda attached. The nonsense you described is what is going on in your head, not mine. I think you have psychological issues, when it comes to me at least and I find it a bit creepy. Was that bold enough for you, or should I expound further?


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02 Apr 2020, 11:52 am

There were banks during the depression that collapsed that led to large banks in the US swallowing them up. One of them which comprises of over 200 collapsed banks. In that time the data has a margin of unemployment of anywhere between 20-30%. Where will this be after the multiple ripple effects?


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