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05 Apr 2020, 10:24 pm
beady wrote:
If it turns out that Trump was right in touting Hydroxychloroquine, there are going to be a lot of red-faced democrats. 
How’s the saying go...
Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in awhile.
How’s the saying go...
Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in awhile.
They will just pretend that did not happen and go on to the next thing. At least you were a little more original and didn't use the 'a broken clock is right twice a day' line.
funeralxempire
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05 Apr 2020, 10:30 pm
beady wrote:
If it turns out that Trump was right in touting Hydroxychloroquine, there are going to be a lot of red-faced democrats.
I don't imagine many medical professionals will start to appreciate him touting a drug that hadn't been tested for that use and still isn't proven to be significantly effective. At the time he first mentioned it all the research so far was based on how it behaved in a test tube, and studies are still ongoing to test it. Hydroxychloroquine itself is potentially harmful, the doses being used in this application are about 1g/day, 2g will kill a person.
He'll toot his own horn if it turns out to be an effective treatment, but considering he doesn't understand what goes into confirming that something is safe and effective, if "correct" it really will be 'a blind squirrel' like you said. It won't actually be correct because just like when you started learning division, the end result isn't the only thing that matters, part of what you had to demonstrate was that you knew why the answer was right.
Quote:
The drug is known to have short-term side effects such as nausea, diarrhea and tinnitus while long-term use can irreversibly impair eyesight. It’s forbidden for pregnant women as it can cause congenital defects in babies.China Health Commission revised the dosage in a Feb. 29 notice tightening chloroquine use. The drug cannot be given to pregnant women, those with heart disease, terminal liver and renal disease, retina and hearing loss and patients on antibiotics such as azithromycin and steroid.
It can now be given only to patients between 18 to 65 years of age for a seven-day treatment course. Patients weighing over 50 kilograms (110 pounds) can take 500mg twice a day — the usual dose — while those weighing less will be administered the drug just once a day after two days of use, according to the latest guidelines.
A woman in Wuhan proved how lethal chloroquine can be when it’s taken beyond the recommended dose. On Feb. 25, Shanghai-based The Paper reported that she took 1.8 grams of the drug she ordered online after suspecting she had the coronavirus. She did not, but the drug caused her to develop malignant cardiac arrhythmic, which can cause sudden death, and she was admitted to the intensive care unit.
It can now be given only to patients between 18 to 65 years of age for a seven-day treatment course. Patients weighing over 50 kilograms (110 pounds) can take 500mg twice a day — the usual dose — while those weighing less will be administered the drug just once a day after two days of use, according to the latest guidelines.
A woman in Wuhan proved how lethal chloroquine can be when it’s taken beyond the recommended dose. On Feb. 25, Shanghai-based The Paper reported that she took 1.8 grams of the drug she ordered online after suspecting she had the coronavirus. She did not, but the drug caused her to develop malignant cardiac arrhythmic, which can cause sudden death, and she was admitted to the intensive care unit.
While I wouldn't go as far as to explicitly blame Trump for the case of his two supporters who took chloroquine sourced from aquarium supplies with at least one of them dying as a result, that does seem to be the likely outcome of promoting a drug without actually understanding what exactly you're promoting. Even if he isn't liable, he contributed to that situation. If he wants credit he'll also have to accept blame, if he won't accept any blame he's really not entitled to any credit either.
All of that said, it would be nice if it is a safe and effective treatment. Anything that contributes to less human suffering over this is probably a good thing.
https://nationalpost.com/health/canada- ... e-wide-use
https://nationalpost.com/news/world/cov ... ll-a-human
05 Apr 2020, 10:35 pm
beady wrote:
Pepe wrote:
If it turns out that Trump was right in touting Hydroxychloroquine, there are going to be a lot of red-faced democrats.
How’s the saying go...
Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in awhile.
"True", but irrelevant.
Hardcore partisans wouldn't admit the obvious truth,
That even a monkey can be right 25% of the time in a 4 choice multiple-choice test,
If that monkey was on the opposite side of the political divide.
Partisanship is very unaspie.
It is surprising and disappointing that there is so much of it around.
Bloody humans.
funeralxempire
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Joined: 27 Oct 2014
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05 Apr 2020, 10:36 pm
05 Apr 2020, 10:40 pm
Pepe wrote:
beady wrote:
Pepe wrote:
If it turns out that Trump was right in touting Hydroxychloroquine, there are going to be a lot of red-faced democrats.
How’s the saying go...
Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in awhile.
"True", but irrelevant.
Hardcore partisans wouldn't admit the obvious truth,
That even a monkey can be right 25% of the time in a 4 choice multiple-choice test,
If that monkey was on the opposite side of the political divide.
Partisanship is very unaspie.
It is surprising and disappointing that there is so much of it around.
Bloody humans.
A lot of aspies are more NT than autistic so that is why you see so much of that sort of thing here.
funeralxempire
Veteran
Joined: 27 Oct 2014
Age: 40
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 30,804
Location: Right over your left shoulder
05 Apr 2020, 10:44 pm
EzraS wrote:
Pepe wrote:
beady wrote:
Pepe wrote:
If it turns out that Trump was right in touting Hydroxychloroquine, there are going to be a lot of red-faced democrats.
How’s the saying go...
Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in awhile.
"True", but irrelevant.
Hardcore partisans wouldn't admit the obvious truth,
That even a monkey can be right 25% of the time in a 4 choice multiple-choice test,
If that monkey was on the opposite side of the political divide.
Partisanship is very unaspie.
It is surprising and disappointing that there is so much of it around.
Bloody humans.
A lot of aspies are more NT than autistic so that is why you see so much of that sort of thing here.
We're people, it would be expected that we'd be prone to acting like people at least some of us, at least some of the time.
05 Apr 2020, 10:47 pm
funeralxempire wrote:
beady wrote:
If it turns out that Trump was right in touting Hydroxychloroquine, there are going to be a lot of red-faced democrats.
I don't imagine many medical professionals will start to appreciate him touting a drug that hadn't been tested for that use and still isn't proven to be significantly effective. At the time he first mentioned it all the research so far was based on how it behaved in a test tube, and studies are still ongoing to test it. Hydroxychloroquine itself is potentially harmful, the doses being used in this application are about 1g/day, 2g will kill a person.
He'll toot his own horn if it turns out to be an effective treatment, but considering he doesn't understand what goes into confirming that something is safe and effective, if "correct" it really will be 'a blind squirrel' like you said. It won't actually be correct because just like when you started learning division, the end result isn't the only thing that matters, part of what you had to demonstrate was that you knew why the answer was right.
Quote:
The drug is known to have short-term side effects such as nausea, diarrhea and tinnitus while long-term use can irreversibly impair eyesight. It’s forbidden for pregnant women as it can cause congenital defects in babies.China Health Commission revised the dosage in a Feb. 29 notice tightening chloroquine use. The drug cannot be given to pregnant women, those with heart disease, terminal liver and renal disease, retina and hearing loss and patients on antibiotics such as azithromycin and steroid.
It can now be given only to patients between 18 to 65 years of age for a seven-day treatment course. Patients weighing over 50 kilograms (110 pounds) can take 500mg twice a day — the usual dose — while those weighing less will be administered the drug just once a day after two days of use, according to the latest guidelines.
A woman in Wuhan proved how lethal chloroquine can be when it’s taken beyond the recommended dose. On Feb. 25, Shanghai-based The Paper reported that she took 1.8 grams of the drug she ordered online after suspecting she had the coronavirus. She did not, but the drug caused her to develop malignant cardiac arrhythmic, which can cause sudden death, and she was admitted to the intensive care unit.
It can now be given only to patients between 18 to 65 years of age for a seven-day treatment course. Patients weighing over 50 kilograms (110 pounds) can take 500mg twice a day — the usual dose — while those weighing less will be administered the drug just once a day after two days of use, according to the latest guidelines.
A woman in Wuhan proved how lethal chloroquine can be when it’s taken beyond the recommended dose. On Feb. 25, Shanghai-based The Paper reported that she took 1.8 grams of the drug she ordered online after suspecting she had the coronavirus. She did not, but the drug caused her to develop malignant cardiac arrhythmic, which can cause sudden death, and she was admitted to the intensive care unit.
While I wouldn't go as far as to explicitly blame Trump for the case of his two supporters who took chloroquine sourced from aquarium supplies with at least one of them dying as a result, that does seem to be the likely outcome of promoting a drug without actually understanding what exactly you're promoting. Even if he isn't liable, he contributed to that situation. If he wants credit he'll also have to accept blame, if he won't accept any blame he's really not entitled to any credit either.
All of that said, it would be nice if it is a safe and effective treatment. Anything that contributes to less human suffering over this is probably a good thing.
https://nationalpost.com/health/canada- ... e-wide-use
https://nationalpost.com/news/world/cov ... ll-a-human
OMG!
What have I started?!
My point was that the Australian medical people think there may be something to the drug. <sigh>
Some of you guys are so easily distracted.
funeralxempire
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Joined: 27 Oct 2014
Age: 40
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Posts: 30,804
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05 Apr 2020, 10:53 pm
Pepe wrote:
OMG!
What have I started?!
My point was that the Australian medical people think there may be something to the drug. <sigh>
Some of you guys are so easily distracted.
What have I started?!
My point was that the Australian medical people think there may be something to the drug. <sigh>
Some of you guys are so easily distracted.
I'm not disagreeing that there might be something. But, non-experts shouldn't be using their platform as US president to tout it before the risks are understood, your point is valid and not being argued against, but so is mine (and hopefully it's not be argued against either).
https://www.forbes.com/sites/victoriafo ... 5a443255f8
If you care about someone who takes metformin, you would care about someone potentially convincing them to take a drug that is likely to kill them because of interactions that neither party knew about, especially given the risk is known to the medical community.
05 Apr 2020, 11:06 pm
EzraS wrote:
Pepe wrote:
beady wrote:
Pepe wrote:
If it turns out that Trump was right in touting Hydroxychloroquine, there are going to be a lot of red-faced democrats.
How’s the saying go...
Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in awhile.
"True", but irrelevant.
Hardcore partisans wouldn't admit the obvious truth,
That even a monkey can be right 25% of the time in a 4 choice multiple-choice test,
If that monkey was on the opposite side of the political divide.
Partisanship is very unaspie.
It is surprising and disappointing that there is so much of it around.
Bloody humans.
A lot of aspies are more NT than autistic so that is why you see so much of that sort of thing here.
A lot of misguided aspies have been polluted/corrupted by neurotypical social values/non-values , groupthink and deceptive practices.
Too many are ego-driven, I have found.
That was an eye-opener when I came here 7 years ago.
But what can you do?
Someone who values a scientific methodological mindset has to accept the truth, process it, and factor it in from there on in.
Makes things more messy/complicated/interesting.
<exits>
<has trouble walking through doorways with such a big head>
05 Apr 2020, 11:08 pm
05 Apr 2020, 11:11 pm
funeralxempire wrote:
Pepe wrote:
OMG!
What have I started?!
My point was that the Australian medical people think there may be something to the drug. <sigh>
Some of you guys are so easily distracted.
What have I started?!
My point was that the Australian medical people think there may be something to the drug. <sigh>
Some of you guys are so easily distracted.
I'm not disagreeing that there might be something. But, non-experts shouldn't be using their platform as US president to tout it before the risks are understood, your point is valid and not being argued against, but so is mine (and hopefully it's not be argued against either).
https://www.forbes.com/sites/victoriafo ... 5a443255f8
If you care about someone who takes metformin, you would care about someone potentially convincing them to take a drug that is likely to kill them because of interactions that neither party knew about, especially given the risk is known to the medical community.
I'll keep this short because it is off topic.
Did Trump *ever* tell people to take the drug?
I don't know because American politics isn't that important to me,
Unless I feel in need of a laugh.
funeralxempire
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Gender: Non-binary
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05 Apr 2020, 11:12 pm
funeralxempire
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05 Apr 2020, 11:24 pm
jimmy m wrote:
When a prescription drug is used off-label, a doctor makes the determination for medical use, with the consent of the patient. Someone deciding to drink fish tank cleaner on their own is just plain stupid.
Taking advice from someone who's clearly a simpleton is just plain stupid, but we already know much of his cult fits that description.
You're not wrong about off-label uses, I have no inherent problem with off-label uses but that's also besides the point. Given the esteem some of his followers hold him in, he should have the humility to leave giving medical advice to medical professionals. His choice not to has the potential to harm his most devoted and gullible fans.
Pepe wrote:
I'll keep this short because it is off topic.
Did Trump *ever* tell people to take the drug?
I don't know because American politics isn't that important to me,
Unless I feel in need of a laugh.
Did Trump *ever* tell people to take the drug?
I don't know because American politics isn't that important to me,
Unless I feel in need of a laugh.
I don't recall exactly what he said because most of what he says isn't worth remembering verbatim. I'm not sure it matters because I don't imagine many of his supporters spend much time debating the exact details of what he said and what he meant. He repeatedly mentioned it as a cure and didn't provide any details or warning or encouragement to discuss it with professionals. He phrases things as sales pitches and that's not really an appropriate way to discuss potentially risky medical treatments, that's my core point. I'd be just as critical if it was Jagmeet Singh or some other politician I find agreeable doing the same thing.
05 Apr 2020, 11:25 pm
funeralxempire wrote:
You say that as though we'd somehow be 'purely asd-minded', but it's not 'pollution' or 'corruption' from others, it's innate because no one is purely ASD-minded. Some people are more, some are less, but even people who might appear severe in many categories won't be 'pure' in every regard at all times and even folks who don't meet or even strongly resemble the criteria for diagnosis may still display traits associated with at times.
Fix up the quote while you still have time.
Last edited by Pepe on 05 Apr 2020, 11:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
05 Apr 2020, 11:32 pm
funeralxempire wrote:
You say that as though we'd somehow be 'purely asd-minded',
I never said that, nor did I implied it.
You came up with that concept all by yourself.
Aspies *tend* to have certain qualities.
They can be perverted as a result of using a social "Operating System" which is foreign.
I have seen it.
I have lived it.
Can we stop now?
I'm not going to say any more on the subject.
06 Apr 2020, 12:54 am
funeralxempire wrote:
jimmy m wrote:
When a prescription drug is used off-label, a doctor makes the determination for medical use, with the consent of the patient. Someone deciding to drink fish tank cleaner on their own is just plain stupid.
Taking advice from someone who's clearly a simpleton is just plain stupid, but we already know much of his cult fits that description.
You're not wrong about off-label uses, I have no inherent problem with off-label uses but that's also besides the point. Given the esteem some of his followers hold him in, he should have the humility to leave giving medical advice to medical professionals. His choice not to has the potential to harm his most devoted and gullible fans.
Pepe wrote:
I'll keep this short because it is off topic.
Did Trump *ever* tell people to take the drug?
I don't know because American politics isn't that important to me,
Unless I feel in need of a laugh.
Did Trump *ever* tell people to take the drug?
I don't know because American politics isn't that important to me,
Unless I feel in need of a laugh.
I don't recall exactly what he said because most of what he says isn't worth remembering verbatim. I'm not sure it matters because I don't imagine many of his supporters spend much time debating the exact details of what he said and what he meant. He repeatedly mentioned it as a cure and didn't provide any details or warning or encouragement to discuss it with professionals. He phrases things as sales pitches and that's not really an appropriate way to discuss potentially risky medical treatments, that's my core point. I'd be just as critical if it was Jagmeet Singh or some other politician I find agreeable doing the same thing.
He did not give medical advice and his followers did not run to drink purple kool-aid. That is just partisn nonsense.
