Emergence of a Deadly Coronavirus

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EzraS
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07 Apr 2020, 10:50 am

jimmy m wrote:

EzraS wrote:

But it really does not matter what I believe or not or what I can prove or disprove. I mean it's not going to change anything. We are all at the mercy of our respective government. We here in Washington State we have to abide by whatever the governor Jay Inslee says.

Maybe that is the central point of this whole thread. There are two decision makers in this world. They are the government and the individual. We tend to put too much emphasis on the government and ignore the individual. When the tornadoes ripped through my property 11 years ago, the government did not come to my rescue. I relied upon myself to repair the damage and recover. In general when there are great disasters, it is the individual and their decisions and actions that count the most. Everyone is in charge of making decisions, even important decisions, such as surviving a pandemic. And these decisions count, they are important. Your life is in the balance.

So make wise decisions. Your life is in your hands.

What I mean is what has been put into law. If I can prove lockdowns are unnecessary, it's not going to change anything. The governor is still calling the shots on that. A shop owner is not going to be able to decide to reopen his shop, because he will just get shut down by the government and he knows it. Stuff like that.

jimmy m
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07 Apr 2020, 10:55 am

The Wall Street Journal had an interesting article today on the coronavirus.

Coronavirus Case Count

Of nearly 56,000 patients in China, 87.9% had a fever, 67.7% had a dry cough, 38.1% experienced fatigue, and 18.6% had shortness of breath. Other, less common symptoms included sore throat, headache, aches, chills, vomiting, diarrhea and nasal congestion.

I found it interesting that the threat of the coronavirus dates back to the 1100's.

The article also had an interesting graphic on the useability of face masks.

Here is a link to the article: Coronavirus Symptoms and How to Protect Yourself: What We Know

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EzraS
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07 Apr 2020, 10:55 am

Fnord wrote:

magz wrote:

... I don't think anyone who believes greed and endless consumption are wrong should be labelled socialist/communist. Do you?

I think that anyone who believes in robbing the "doers" to give to the "do-nothings" is either a Socialist, a Communist, or some measure of both.

Greed is an inherently human characteristic, and consumption cannot be stopped.

What is ironic is the do-nothing socialist who wants more free stuff is also being greedy.

magz
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07 Apr 2020, 10:58 am

Fnord wrote:

magz wrote:

... I don't think anyone who believes greed and endless consumption are wrong should be labelled socialist/communist. Do you?

I think that anyone who believes in robbing the "doers" to give to the "do-nothings" is either a Socialist, a Communist, or some measure of both.

1. How about giving voluntarily? How about calling others for giving voluntarily?
2. What about those who promote expanding my Option 2? More money for common needs, more things considered common instead of private goods?
3. What do you think about hoarding in face of shortages?

Fnord wrote:

magz wrote:

Greed is an inherently human characteristic, and consumption cannot be stopped.[/color]

I disagree. A lot of it is culture that may either praise greed or generosity. Otherwise, Potlach cultures would have never come into existence.

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EzraS
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07 Apr 2020, 11:01 am

CAN YOU PASS THE SMELL TEST? U.S. MILITARY BASE IN SOUTH KOREA TESTS VISITORS FOR COVID-19 WITH APPLE VINEGAR SCREENING

https://www.newsweek.com/smell-test-us- ... ng-1496183

I just sniffed some vinegar. No only do I not have the virus, I now have open sinuses.

Misslizard
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07 Apr 2020, 11:04 am

EzraS wrote:

Have someone walk in with dog poop on their shoes.The person that doesn’t complain has corona.

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Fnord
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07 Apr 2020, 11:05 am

jimmy m wrote:

I found it interesting that the threat of the coronavirus dates back to the 1100's.

Coronaviruses were first isolated from chickens in 1937. After the discovery of Rhinoviruses in the 1950's, about half of all colds still could not be ascribed to known agents. In 1965, scientists used cultures of human ciliated embryonal trachea to propagate the first human coronavirus (HCoV) in vitro. There are now approximately 15 species in this family, which infect not only man but cattle, pigs, rodents, cats, dogs and birds (some are serious veterinary pathogens, especially in chickens).

Karamazov
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07 Apr 2020, 11:06 am

jimmy m wrote:

The Wall Street Journal had an interesting article today on the coronavirus.

Coronavirus Case Count

Of nearly 56,000 patients in China, 87.9% had a fever, 67.7% had a dry cough, 38.1% experienced fatigue, and 18.6% had shortness of breath. Other, less common symptoms included sore throat, headache, aches, chills, vomiting, diarrhea and nasal congestion.

I found it interesting that the threat of the coronavirus dates back to the 1100's.

The article also had an interesting graphic on the useability of face masks.

Here is a link to the article: Coronavirus Symptoms and How to Protect Yourself: What We Know

Just had a skim of wikipedia’s page on Coronavirus NL63 interesting read: apparently it’s suspected of causing gastroenteritis and infantile heart problems.

jimmy m
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07 Apr 2020, 11:09 am

blooiejagwa wrote:

^ your wife ought to be reported anti-capitalist tendencies. I recall she sewed a bunch of masks to give for free when she could have hoarded them or charged upwards of 10 bucks per mask.

My wife is a capitalist - through and through. She spent the early part of her life in a communist country and knows very well the evils associated with that form of government. She believes in hard work. She definitely doesn't believe in socialism. But she also has a kind and generous heart.

blooiejagwa try and not get too riled by the conversations on this thread. There are many wounded souls on this website. I think you told me that you "had no filter" and spoke right off the top of your head.

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07 Apr 2020, 11:24 am

Not sure if this has already been posted.Air quality could be a factor.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ecowat ... 2645656760

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jimmy m
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07 Apr 2020, 11:24 am

Fnord wrote:

jimmy m wrote:

I found it interesting that the threat of the coronavirus dates back to the 1100's.

Before the SARS outbreak only two human coronaviruses (HCoV) were known: HCoV-OC43 and HCoV-229E. With the discovery of SARS-CoV in 2003, a third family member was identified. Soon thereafter, we described the fourth human coronavirus (HCoV-NL63), a virus that has spread worldwide and is associated with croup in children. We report here the complete genome sequence of two HCoV-NL63 clinical isolates, designated Amsterdam 57 and Amsterdam 496. The genomes are 27,538 and 27,550 nucleotides long, respectively, and share the same genome organization. We identified two variable regions, one within the 1a and one within the S gene, whereas the 1b and N genes were most conserved. Phylogenetic analysis revealed that HCoV-NL63 genomes have a mosaic structure with multiple recombination sites. Additionally, employing three different algorithms, we assessed the evolutionary rate for the S gene of group Ib coronaviruses to be ∼ 3 × 10− 4 substitutions per site per year. Using this evolutionary rate we determined that HCoV-NL63 diverged in the 11th century from its closest relative HCoV-229E.

Source: Mosaic Structure of Human Coronavirus NL63, One Thousand Years of Evolution

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QuantumChemist
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07 Apr 2020, 11:27 am

Fnord wrote:

jimmy m wrote:

I found it interesting that the threat of the coronavirus dates back to the 1100's.

Yesterday, I let my Dr. Frankenstein side out for a while while pondering the true lasting effects of this virus. I am not talking about the overall deaths as those are easy to see. The net effect is that it causes a slight change in the DNA of those affected and survive. It is probably too small to notice with simple genetic tests, with the exception of antibody formation. However, extend that out over several human generations and the changes to the genetic code becomes much larger. Viruses contribute to human genetic evolution in a big way.

If you do not think this is true, there exists viruses that do directly change genetic coding in humans so much that it can lead to cancers. We have HPV shots to prevent one specific form of this. My dark side sees where that can be used with evil intent. If you combine the effects of several viruses together, it can lead to so interesting results. This is something that can be engineered to a purpose. I will leave it at that.

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07 Apr 2020, 11:31 am

magz wrote:

How about giving voluntarily?

As long as it is entirely up to the individual to choose when to give, what to give, how much to give, and to whom it is given.

magz wrote:

How about calling others for giving voluntarily?

That makes it less of an individual choice, and more of a third-party mandate.

magz wrote:

What about those who promote expanding my Option 2 ... more money for common needs, more things considered common instead of private goods?

Socialism. Pfeh.

magz wrote:

What do you think about hoarding in face of shortages?

It makes perfect sense to me. I have over a dozen crates of MREs stashed in the basement, along with water, medical kits, 2-way radios, soap, et cetera. It's called "preparation" or "prepping". You should try it.

magz wrote:

... A lot of it is culture that may either praise greed or generosity. Otherwise, Potlach cultures would have never come into existence.

"Potlatch" cultures existed in primitive societies as a means of demonstrating personal influence and power, and were closely tied in with religious practices. I hope you are not proposing that any religious institution take over the government and force "Potlatch" practices down our throats.

Last edited by Fnord on 07 Apr 2020, 11:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

eikonabridge
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07 Apr 2020, 11:32 am

magz wrote:

... My government banning entrance to parks and natural forests is acting on panic - it makes no sense but they look like doing something. ...

They probably closed their parks because they have learned from what has happened in the US. See, the problem is that most people continue to believe that this is an airborne virus. People just never learn that this virus mainly propagates through their hands to finally land on their face. In California, even small (unattended) neighborhood parks are closed, now. There is a reason why they must be closed: people are just careless with what they touch.

Miami park ranger hospitalized with COVID-19. As infections rise, people urged to isolate
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/coronavirus/article241353321.html

COVID-19 Is Just as Bad for Parks as the 2019 Shutdown
... Seven employees have tested positive for the virus, even while the parks have no entrance fees, are short on staff, and are overwhelmed by visitors. ...
https://www.outsideonline.com/2411239/coronavirus-national-parks-impact

Lifeguard union asking San Diego to protect guards more amid COVID-19
... The local lifeguard union wants the city to do more to protect its guards. This comes a few days after learning that four lifeguards tested positive for COVID-19. At least 17 others are "presumed positive." A local union leader is pressing officials for answers. ...
https://www.10news.com/news/coronavirus/lifeguard-union-asking-san-diego-to-protect-guards-more-amid-covid-19

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Magna
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07 Apr 2020, 11:38 am

QuantumChemist wrote:

Fnord wrote:

jimmy m wrote:

I found it interesting that the threat of the coronavirus dates back to the 1100's.

Thank you Dr. Frankenstein. The hypothetical that you state based on the realities of how viruses are known to affect humans reinforce my continued skepticism that this current virus is entirely natural and exists without any human manipulation, intervention or creation.

magz
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07 Apr 2020, 11:41 am

Fnord wrote:

magz wrote:

How about giving voluntarily?

As long as it is entirely up to the individual to choose when to give, what to give, how much to give, and to whom it is given.

magz wrote:

How about calling others for giving voluntarily?

That makes it less of an individual choice, and more of a third-party mandate.

Is this your opinion on all charity organisations?

Fnord wrote:

magz wrote:

What about those who promote expanding my Option 2 ... more money for common needs, more things considered common instead of private goods?

Socialism. Pfeh.

So, you're not into the Star Trek Utopia of exploring the universe as The Humanity.
Or massive state-funded testing to contain a disease.

Fnord wrote:

magz wrote:

What do you think about hoarding in face of shortages?

Even if you know hoarding would be the sole reason for the said shortages?
By the way, we're not having any shortages here.

Fnord wrote:

magz wrote:

... A lot of it is culture that may either praise greed or generosity. Otherwise, Potlach cultures would have never come into existence.

After posting, I knew mentioning Potlach was a mistake. Too easy to attack the example instead of taking the point.
How about all the religions that consider greed a deadly sin? Like buddhism or... christianity?

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