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Fnord
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07 Apr 2020, 11:58 am

magz wrote:
Is this your opinion on all charity organisations?
That pretty much nails it.  Other people telling me what I should give, when I should give, how much I should give, and to whom I should give it are trying to usurp my free will and deprive me of my right to choose.  Besides, my time with the United Way enabled me to learn that on the average only about 17% of the money you give to these "charities" actually goes toward doing the work that those "charities" say they do.  The rest is used up in "administrative costs".
magz wrote:
Even if you know hoarding would be the sole reason for the said shortages?
I began my "hoarding" over 20 years ago when we first moved into this house, so as to avoid any panic-runs on the local markets.  This build-up of resources has been carefully planned so as to minimize its impact on the local economy, as well.
magz wrote:
By the way, we don't have shortages here.
By the way, neither do I.
magz wrote:
After posting, I knew mentioning Potlach was a mistake. Too easy to attack the example instead of taking the point.
When you romanticize cultures that really no longer exist, it is easy for others to criticize them.  It's like Trump wanting America to return to the way it was in the 1950s, when women were still second-class citizens and non-white people were still being lynched by angry white mobs, because he believes that doing so would "Make America Great Again".
magz wrote:
How about all the religions that consider greed a deadly sin?  Like Buddhism or ... Christianity?
There is greed, which motivates people to higher achievements for the rewards offered by success. Then there is greed, which is the desire to own everything.  Besides, I have said it before and I'll say it again: I Hate Religion, especially all those religions imposed by self-appointed "prophets" and greedy evangelists who see nothing wrong with preaching their personal versions of the "Prosperity Gospel" to gullible poor people.



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07 Apr 2020, 12:04 pm

magz wrote:
So, you're not into the Star Trek Utopia of exploring the universe as The Humanity. Or massive state-funded testing to contain a disease.
Star Trek is a fantasy, nothing more. State-funded testing comes out of my taxes, which I am required to pay under penalty of law. Since everyone else is required to pay their taxes, my share of the yearly contribution is mere pennies, maybe even less than a penny.



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07 Apr 2020, 12:20 pm

Unconfirmed reports that Wuhan Corona virus sufferers have been stuffed in body bags while still alive and unconfirmed reports of screams emanating from crematoria with the assumption that people considered lost causes are being burned alive.

Radio Free Asia article



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07 Apr 2020, 12:43 pm

Magna wrote:
Unconfirmed reports that Wuhan Corona virus sufferers have been stuffed in body bags while still alive and unconfirmed reports of screams emanating from crematoria with the assumption that people considered lost causes are being burned alive.

Radio Free Asia article


WTF I won't click that link but are you serious?


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magz
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07 Apr 2020, 12:47 pm

Fnord wrote:
When you romanticize cultures that really no longer exist, it is easy for others to criticize them.  It's like Trump wanting America to return to the way it was in the 1950s, when women were still second-class citizens and non-white people were still being lynched by angry white mobs, because he believes that doing so would "Make America Great Again".
I've admitted it wasn't a good example. Let's leave aside the societes we've never met, focus on ones we know. A lot of problems I'm hearing about on WP are not present where I live. Like, pressure on buying big homes to "prove you're middle class". City organization making life without a car impossible. Or sudden hoarding of toilet paper on any sign of problems ahead. That's why I believe the cultural factor is important and greed and consumption do not need to be on the level standard for traditionally capitalist societes.
Fnord wrote:
magz wrote:
How about all the religions that consider greed a deadly sin?  Like Buddhism or ... Christianity?
There is greed, which motivates people to higher achievements for the rewards offered by success. Then there is greed, which is the desire to own everything.  Besides, I have said it before and I'll say it again: I Hate Religion, especially all those religions imposed by self-appointed "prophets" and greedy evangelists who see nothing wrong with preaching their personal versions of the "Prosperity Gospel" to gullible poor people.
Hate religion but active in your church. No problem, your life. We all live with our tiny paradoxes.
"Prosperity Gospel" is not a phenomenon here... again, culture. While some greed is likely inevitable, capitalism + consumerism seem to have made it some kind of a moral value, ultimate goal of life. It doesn't have to be this way.

Star Trek is a fantasy that explores possible directions of further development of culture.
It's a general role of fiction, to explore topics.


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Last edited by magz on 07 Apr 2020, 12:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Fnord
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07 Apr 2020, 12:48 pm

IsabellaLinton wrote:
Magna wrote:
Unconfirmed reports that Wuhan Corona virus sufferers have been stuffed in body bags while still alive and unconfirmed reports of screams emanating from crematoria with the assumption that people considered lost causes are being burned alive. Radio Free Asia article
WTF I won't click that link but are you serious?
It's from an episode of X-Files.



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07 Apr 2020, 1:01 pm

magz wrote:
... Hate religion but active in your church.  No problem, your life.  We all live with our tiny paradoxes...
Bars and pubs don't interest me, neither do sporting events or parties.  I don't socialize with people from work, so church is about the only place left where I can go and meet people my age who share similar interests.  Sometimes I argue with the Sunday-School teachers (over doctrine, of course), and sometimes the church hosts a banquet.  The pastors don't complain if I nod off during services unless I snore.

Really, church is probably the only place where I can socialize in person to some extent without actually getting involved in other people's lives, and by the time I start feeling anxious about being in a crowded place, it's time to go home.
So it's not all bad.



magz
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07 Apr 2020, 1:06 pm

Fnord wrote:
magz wrote:
... Hate religion but active in your church.  No problem, your life.  We all live with our tiny paradoxes...
Bars and pubs don't interest me, neither do sporting events or parties.  I don't socialize with people from work, so church is about the only place left where I can go and meet people my age who share similar interests.  Sometimes I argue with the Sunday-School teachers (over doctrine, of course), and sometimes the church hosts a banquet.  The pastors don't complain if I nod off during services unless I snore.

Really, church is probably the only place where I can socialize in person to some extent without actually getting involved in other people's lives, and by the time I start feeling anxious about being in a crowded place, it's time to go home.
So it's not all bad.

Based on your exchanges with Mr Greatshield, there is rather more to it than you admitted above ;)


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jimmy m
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07 Apr 2020, 1:17 pm

Back on Page 4 of this thread on 25 January, I noted the importance of controlling indoor humidity levels in order to limit the spread of the coronavirus.

jimmy m wrote:
For those concerned about this virus, one of the strategies for combating it should be mentioned. That is controlling the humidity levels indoors. Maintain the air between 40% and 60% relative humidity in your homes and businesses.

The following article describes why and the research backing up this approach.

This Inexpensive Action Lowers Hospital Infections And Protects Against Flu Season


There is a new paper coming out that reinforces this perspective.

Paper: Seasonality of Respiratory Viral Infections

In the conclusions: How might we use these insights to prevent respiratory infections and illnesses in the winter months? In addition to vaccines and antiviral drugs, nonpharmaceutical interventions to prevent respiratory infections are gaining attention. Lifestyle (eating healthy, sleeping more than 7 h/day) and hygiene practices (washing hands, wearing facemasks) are known to increase antimicrobial resistance and prevent transmission, respectively. In addition to these measures, we might consider controlling the indoor environment to combat respiratory infections. Such inter- ventions with humidifiers have been realized since the 1960s with promising results. More recently, a study in Minnesota found that humidifying preschool classrooms during January to March to ∼45% RH results in a significant reduction in the total number of influenza virus and viral genome copies found in the air and on objects compared to control classrooms. Such nonpharmaceutical interventions can be combined with vaccination strategies to achieve better prevention of respiratory viral infections.


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07 Apr 2020, 1:28 pm

A California pulmonologist, Dr. Tom Yadegar, and medical director of the intensive care unit at Providence Cedars-Sinai Tarzana Medical Center described the protocol he created to help identify and treat the most extreme COVID-19 cases, saying the key is to find these patients and prevent them from going on ventilators.

The new coronavirus is spread by microscopic droplets from coughs or sneezes and causes mild to moderate symptoms in most. For some, especially older adults and the infirm, it can cause pneumonia and lead to death.

Speaking from Los Angeles on Tuesday, Dr. Tom Yadegar, a specialist in critical care medicine who has been treating COVID-19 patients, said he noticed several patients were deteriorating quickly and needed to be put on ventilators. He said he realized that he had to find out why these patients were experiencing sudden deterioration.

He said that prompted him to start researching what was happening to those COVID-19 patients. Yadegar explained that through his research he found out that “what was happening is a process called cytokine storm syndrome.”

According to the National Cancer Institute (NCI), cytokine storm, which can occur as a result of infection, autoimmune conditions or diseases, is “a severe immune reaction in which the body releases too many cytokines into the blood too quickly.”

“Cytokines play an important role in normal immune responses, but having a large amount of them released in the body all at once can be harmful,” NCI explained.

On Tuesday, Yadegar explained that “in this syndrome, the immune system is activated – you have intense inflammation and subsequently it leads to patients requiring mechanical ventilation.”

He said once he figured out what the diagnosis was, he started doing more research to try and figure out “how do we look for it in a laboratory value so that we can find it before it happens because when it happens, it's almost too late.”

He added that “it’s very important to find these patients and prevent them from going on ventilators.”

Yadegar said he came up with “a handful of lab tests” that he thought were useful “and we started ordering them on admission when the patients were presenting to the ER [emergency room] and then tracking them every few days and it was a very clear pattern that we learned.”

“You can predict on presentation who is going to be at risk for it and then if you follow certain markers and their clinical course you can actually tell who is going to develop it and, more importantly, you can intervene to prevent them from getting to that point where they need a ventilator,” Yadegar said.

He said that as people’s immune systems kick in, he has a better result by actually suppressing that person’s immune system, which he said was “pretty counterintuitive.”

Source: California pulmonologist on how he's identifying and treating extreme COVID-19 cases


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magz
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07 Apr 2020, 1:35 pm

jimmy m wrote:
A California pulmonologist, Dr. Tom Yadegar, and medical director of the intensive care unit at Providence Cedars-Sinai Tarzana Medical Center described the protocol he created to help identify and treat the most extreme COVID-19 cases, saying the key is to find these patients and prevent them from going on ventilators.

The new coronavirus is spread by microscopic droplets from coughs or sneezes and causes mild to moderate symptoms in most. For some, especially older adults and the infirm, it can cause pneumonia and lead to death.

Speaking from Los Angeles on Tuesday, Dr. Tom Yadegar, a specialist in critical care medicine who has been treating COVID-19 patients, said he noticed several patients were deteriorating quickly and needed to be put on ventilators. He said he realized that he had to find out why these patients were experiencing sudden deterioration.

He said that prompted him to start researching what was happening to those COVID-19 patients. Yadegar explained that through his research he found out that “what was happening is a process called cytokine storm syndrome.”

According to the National Cancer Institute (NCI), cytokine storm, which can occur as a result of infection, autoimmune conditions or diseases, is “a severe immune reaction in which the body releases too many cytokines into the blood too quickly.”

“Cytokines play an important role in normal immune responses, but having a large amount of them released in the body all at once can be harmful,” NCI explained.

On Tuesday, Yadegar explained that “in this syndrome, the immune system is activated – you have intense inflammation and subsequently it leads to patients requiring mechanical ventilation.”

He said once he figured out what the diagnosis was, he started doing more research to try and figure out “how do we look for it in a laboratory value so that we can find it before it happens because when it happens, it's almost too late.”

He added that “it’s very important to find these patients and prevent them from going on ventilators.”

Yadegar said he came up with “a handful of lab tests” that he thought were useful “and we started ordering them on admission when the patients were presenting to the ER [emergency room] and then tracking them every few days and it was a very clear pattern that we learned.”

“You can predict on presentation who is going to be at risk for it and then if you follow certain markers and their clinical course you can actually tell who is going to develop it and, more importantly, you can intervene to prevent them from getting to that point where they need a ventilator,” Yadegar said.

He said that as people’s immune systems kick in, he has a better result by actually suppressing that person’s immune system, which he said was “pretty counterintuitive.”

Source: California pulmonologist on how he's identifying and treating extreme COVID-19 cases

That's interesting!
A bit similar to what we believe about the Spanish Flu - it also killed by immune system overreaction.
But it doesn't have the distinctive pattern of killing strong patients that Spanish Flu had.


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07 Apr 2020, 1:42 pm

Magna wrote:
QuantumChemist wrote:
Fnord wrote:
jimmy m wrote:
I found it interesting that the threat of the coronavirus dates back to the 1100's.
Coronaviruses were first isolated from chickens in 1937.  After the discovery of Rhinoviruses in the 1950's, about half of all colds still could not be ascribed to known agents.  In 1965, scientists used cultures of human ciliated embryonal trachea to propagate the first human coronavirus (HCoV) in vitro.  There are now approximately 15 species in this family, which infect not only man but cattle, pigs, rodents, cats, dogs and birds (some are serious veterinary pathogens, especially in chickens).


Yesterday, I let my Dr. Frankenstein side out for a while while pondering the true lasting effects of this virus. I am not talking about the overall deaths as those are easy to see. The net effect is that it causes a slight change in the DNA of those affected and survive. It is probably too small to notice with simple genetic tests, with the exception of antibody formation. However, extend that out over several human generations and the changes to the genetic code becomes much larger. Viruses contribute to human genetic evolution in a big way.

If you do not think this is true, there exists viruses that do directly change genetic coding in humans so much that it can lead to cancers. We have HPV shots to prevent one specific form of this. My dark side sees where that can be used with evil intent. If you combine the effects of several viruses together, it can lead to so interesting results. This is something that can be engineered to a purpose. I will leave it at that.


Thank you Dr. Frankenstein. The hypothetical that you state based on the realities of how viruses are known to affect humans reinforce my continued skepticism that this current virus is entirely natural and exists without any human manipulation, intervention or creation.

Those who contract the virus will be assimilated into the Matrix.
Don’t catch the virus.
Just a tip from the Lizards. :P


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07 Apr 2020, 1:43 pm

WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THE CORONAVIRUS ENDS?

When people have been cooped up in their homes, surviving the quarantine, they need a release. They will find it by hitting the national parks, amusement parks and the great outdoors. This trek will almost burst the seams in attendance numbers, forcing some of these sites to ration access. How can I predict this?

All I have to do is look at China.

A popular tourist attraction in the Anhui province of China was reopened this weekend and then quickly closed to visitors when more than 20,000 flocked to the site.

Image

Image


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07 Apr 2020, 1:45 pm

Misslizard wrote:
Those who contract the virus will be assimilated into the Matrix.
Don’t catch the virus.
Just a tip from the Lizards. :P

Does it assimilate those already assimilated by the Borg?


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07 Apr 2020, 1:49 pm

magz wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
Those who contract the virus will be assimilated into the Matrix.
Don’t catch the virus.
Just a tip from the Lizards. :P

Does it assimilate those already assimilated by the Borg?

Yes.It has mutated for that.The Borg cube will now be a giant Corona virus sphere bumping through the cosmos.


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07 Apr 2020, 1:49 pm

My dad said Boris Johnson has died from Covid19..is it true?


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