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Pepe
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07 Apr 2020, 6:22 pm

magz wrote:
Fnord wrote:
So, to repeat the question: what is the alternative to Capitalism/Consumerism if not Communism/Socialism?[/color]

On what level?
Individual? Minimalism is one of possible examples of alternative to consumerism.
Social? Solidarity vs NIMB.
Cultural? Inclusiveness/equality vs strong social stratification by income.
Political? All political systems suck, power corrupts.
Economical? I see three options and all real states do some mix of them:
1. Leaving goods to those who already have them (capitalism);
2. Gathering goods for common needs - infrastructure, state, environment, etc. - I don't know any name for this but there's no state without it;
3. Gathering and redistributing goods for individual needs (socialism).
So, well, I don't know the name for option 2.


Oi!
You two.
PPR is that-a-way -------------->
:mrgreen:



ASPartOfMe
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07 Apr 2020, 6:24 pm

Pepe wrote:
jimmy m wrote:
WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THE CORONAVIRUS ENDS?

When people have been cooped up in their homes, surviving the quarantine, they need a release. They will find it by hitting the national parks, amusement parks and the great outdoors. This trek will almost burst the seams in attendance numbers, forcing some of these sites to ration access. How can I predict this?

All I have to do is look at China.

A popular tourist attraction in the Anhui province of China was reopened this weekend and then quickly closed to visitors when more than 20,000 flocked to the site.


So many stoopid neurotypicals. :roll:
I'd be avoiding crowds like the plague, even when the cell doors are open.

Pun intended?


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07 Apr 2020, 6:33 pm

jimmy m wrote:
blooiejagwa wrote:
I was thinking that was more on a personal level. Minimalism less rush buying to display affection more family oriented lives etc
That writer is from a page about gardening to reduce dependence on store bought foods and save money.


This pandemic produced a lot of panic buying.

I think the first item that was targeted was face masks/respirators. This occurred before most Americans even realized there was a pandemic underway. I suspect most of the buying at this stage was Chinese buying up face masks supplies all over the globe and shipping them back to China.

The next item was toilet paper. I predicted that a couple weeks before it actually began.

Then there was hand sanitizer gel. That was followed by a run on paper towels.

One of the odd items that was sold out was flour. This was driven by the following. If I have to be quarantined, I might as well bake something.

Now in reading the news today, there is another item that is quickly being bought up. It is BABY CHICKS, little baby chicks are currently flying off the shelves. Who would have guessed. I suspect this is being driven by a strong desire to go back to nature. Grow your own gardens, raise your own animals. Live free and independent. Raise your own food.


Eggs are nourishing, and great as an ingredient in many dishes, but costly if you add it up for a family.

I hope the annoying behaviour of the cute chicks as adult chickens doesn't put off those people though. There are people who mistreat animals and if someone is getting them just for that, eggs, I wonder if they would be prepared to deal with all the responsibility that comes with them and treat them properly


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07 Apr 2020, 7:07 pm

I spoke with a friend of mine who is a police officer. She said no one was up for any pics, but said everyone loved the masks I made. She said someone else came to donate a large bag of them, but mine were more of a hit because of the design.



Pepe
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07 Apr 2020, 7:13 pm

magz wrote:
EzraS wrote:
I think maybe a lot of people are under the impression that every person who had covid19 put on their death certificate were in an ICU on a ventilator. But I don't think that is the case. I think probably many were at home, already in a nursing home, hospice, already in a regular hospital room for something else. I have heard of people at the end of their life from a terminal illness like stage 4 cancer technically dying of respiratory failure.

I think you're constructing a strawman right now.
None of us says covid isn't mild in vast majority of its cases.
That's exactly why it spreads so easily.


Bingo!



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07 Apr 2020, 7:15 pm

EzraS wrote:
It is not a government agency in charge of keeping records. It is a secondary source. Fox is CONSERVATIVE too and I think it's crap for the most part. That's not the issue.


Thankfully, that can't be said in Australia. :wink:
You Amerikans and your partisanship truth distortions. :mrgreen:



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07 Apr 2020, 7:59 pm

Fnord wrote:
blooiejagwa wrote:
I'm not sure how it is a red herring when the discussion was about a very specific image and quote.  I disagreed that it was about capitalism vs. XYZ as it referred to specific choices like not buying nonsense and filling that space with family time.  Giving more value to friends and family simply because right now you are unable to visit them.  Etc.  I think you like to argue and read something in people's response that isn't there.  As for alternatives don't ask someone as uneducated as me.
I will never understand how people can put faith in a mere slogan without ever really knowing what it means.


A certain orange haired individual convinced 46.1% of the US voting population to vote for him based only on slogans. Certain people being unduly harsh on blooiejagwa because of their phobia of social welfare.



Last edited by cyberdad on 07 Apr 2020, 8:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

cyberdad
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07 Apr 2020, 8:04 pm

[quote="ASPartOfMe"]New Zealand isn’t just flattening the curve. It’s squashing it.
[quote]

New Zealand learned from the 1980s when the US put sanctions on them when they banned US nuclear warships that they need to have a culture of self-sufficiency. Jessica Arden is an outstanding leader and taken concrete steps to isolate NZ (although its easier when you have a small population and live on an island).



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07 Apr 2020, 8:07 pm

https://www.wnyc.org/story/surge-number ... ed-deaths/

If you die at home from the coronavirus, there’s a good chance you won’t be included in the official death toll because of a discrepancy in New York City’s reporting process. The problem means the city’s official death count is likely far lower than the real toll taken by the virus, according to public health officials.



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07 Apr 2020, 8:10 pm

Syd wrote:
https://www.wnyc.org/story/surge-number-new-yorkers-dying-home-officials-suspect-undercount-covid-19-related-deaths/

If you die at home from the coronavirus, there’s a good chance you won’t be included in the official death toll, because of a discrepancy in New York City’s reporting process. The problem means the city’s official death count is likely far lower than the real toll taken by the virus, according to public health officials.


To be fair since a large percentage of deaths are due to other complications it may be difficult to attribute the virus to every incident of home deaths.



funeralxempire
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07 Apr 2020, 8:12 pm

Syd wrote:
https://www.wnyc.org/story/surge-number-new-yorkers-dying-home-officials-suspect-undercount-covid-19-related-deaths/

If you die at home from the coronavirus, there’s a good chance you won’t be included in the official death toll because of a discrepancy in New York City’s reporting process. The problem means the city’s official death count is likely far lower than the real toll taken by the virus, according to public health officials.


Interesting, that seems at odds with what some posters are claiming, but also more credible than those claims.


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07 Apr 2020, 9:12 pm

This article gives a projection for when the peak in deaths will be in each US state. I think that since it was around March 11th, 46 days ago, that this started to get really bad here, that 46 days after the peak date, significant progress will have been made and perhaps a lot of the restrictions we’re all having to deal with now can be put to rest after that.

I’m not too thrilled that Iowa’s isn’t until April 26th.

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-sho ... ate-s-peak


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07 Apr 2020, 9:26 pm

cyberdad wrote:
Fnord wrote:
blooiejagwa wrote:
I'm not sure how it is a red herring when the discussion was about a very specific image and quote.  I disagreed that it was about capitalism vs. XYZ as it referred to specific choices like not buying nonsense and filling that space with family time.  Giving more value to friends and family simply because right now you are unable to visit them.  Etc.  I think you like to argue and read something in people's response that isn't there.  As for alternatives don't ask someone as uneducated as me.
I will never understand how people can put faith in a mere slogan without ever really knowing what it means.


A certain orange haired individual convinced 46.1% of the US voting population to vote for him based only on slogans. Certain people being unduly harsh on blooiejagwa because of their phobia of social welfare.


I really wish people would stop distorting the facts. His face is orange, and his hair is yellow.



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07 Apr 2020, 9:29 pm

Staggering Surge Of NYers Dying In Their Homes Suggests City Is Undercounting Coronavirus Fatalities

Quote:
If you die at home from the coronavirus, there’s a good chance you won’t be included in the official death toll, because of a discrepancy in New York City’s reporting process.

The problem means the city’s official death count is likely far lower than the real toll taken by the virus, according to public health officials.

It also means that victims without access to testing are not being counted, and even epidemiologists are left without a full understanding of the pandemic.

As of Monday afternoon, 2,738 New York City residents have died from ‘confirmed’ cases of COVID-19, according to the city Department of Health. That’s an average of 245 a day since the previous Monday.

But another 200 city residents are now dying at home each day, compared to 20 to 25 such deaths before the pandemic, said Aja Worthy-Davis, a spokeswoman for the medical examiner’s office. And an untold number of them are unconfirmed.

hat’s because the ME’s office is not testing dead bodies for COVID-19. Instead, they’re referring suspected cases to the city’s health department as “probable.”

“If someone dies at home, and we go to the home and there [are] signs of influenza, our medical examiner may determine the cause of death was clearly an influenza-like illness, potentially COVID or an influenza-like illness believed to be COVID,” said Worthy-Davis. “We report all our deaths citywide to the health department, who releases that data to the public.”

But the health department does not include that number in the official count unless it is confirmed, a spokesman said.

“Every person with a lab confirmed COVID-19 diagnosis is counted in the number of fatalities,” the spokesman, Michael Lanza, said in an email. He said the city's coronavirus death tally does not break down who died at home versus who died in a hospital from the virus.

“While undiagnosed cases that result in at-home deaths are connected to a public health pandemic...not all suspected COVID-19 deaths are brought in for examination by OCME, nor do we provide testing in most of these natural at-home deaths,” Lanza said.

Typically, when someone dies at home, a loved one, acquaintance or neighbor calls the police or 911. First responders call in the medical examiner, who conducts a review to determine if there was foul play, then records a cause of death.

Worthy-Davis could not immediately provide a tally of how many “probable” COVID-19 deaths have been referred to the Health Department. The health department also could not provide the number of “probable” COVID deaths certified by OCME.

If a person had been tested before death, that record would be passed along, said Worthy-Davis. But testing protocols have generally excluded victims who are not hospitalized.

Statistics from the Fire Department, which runs EMS, confirm a staggering rise in deaths occurring at the scene before first responders can transport a person to a hospital for care.

The FDNY says it responded to 2,192 cases of deaths at home between March 20th and April 5th, or about 130 a day, an almost 400 percent increase from the same time period last year. (In 2019, there were just 453 cardiac arrest calls where a patient died, according to the FDNY.)

That number has been steadily increasing since March 30th, with 241 New Yorkers dying at home Sunday — more than the number of confirmed COVID-19 deaths that occurred citywide that day. On Monday night, the city reported 266 new deaths, suggesting the possibility of a 40% undercount of coronavirus-related deaths.

A spokeswoman for Mayor Bill de Blasio did not return a request for comment about the difference between probable and confirmed COVID-19 deaths. But the discrepancy troubled public health authorities and local elected officials.

“There’s no doubt we’re undercounting,” said City Councilman Mark Levine, who chairs the city’s Health Committee. “If the person had a confirmed test result before death then they were marked that was the cause of death on the death certificate. If someone did not have a confirmed test but it appears they had the symptoms, then OCME will flag them as a ‘possible’ [COVID death]. It’s unclear to me whether those are being counted in our total stats.”

Dr. Irwin Redlener, the director of Columbia University's National Center for Disaster Preparedness, called the discrepancy “a subset of the whole testing fiasco.” He said the city should be testing dead bodies and reporting the results.

“This difference between the [Medical Examiner] and the Health Department, that’s something that needs to be resolved urgently, that’s not okay,” Redlener said. “They have to be on the same page.”

Redlener said the city should also be tracking other deaths that occur as collateral damage.

“[People] may be dying because of reduced care for other non-COVID diseases” like diabetes, heart attacks or other chronic conditions, Redlener said. “Those to me, should be somehow tallied as we’re looking at the death toll of COVID.”

Meanwhile, city and hospital morgues and refrigerated trucks used to supplement them are nearing capacity, and first responders continue to answer unprecedented numbers of 911 calls every day. They’re averaging more than 6,400 a day over the last 11 days, compared to 4,500 before the pandemic, according to union officials.

To alleviate pressure on hospitals, last week the council that oversees emergency responders told paramedics and EMTs to try to revive a person whose heart has stopped beating in the field. If they can’t do so, the person is not taken to a hospital for further care.

“We had one lieutenant in his 16-hour tour respond to 11 cardiac arrests, which is beyond abnormal,” said Michael Greco, vice president of Local 2507, the union representing the Fire Department’s EMTs and paramedics. On Sunday, they fielded 187 calls for cardiac arrest, where they would have to try to revive people on site. They used to get 20 of those a day, he said.

“None of us were trained for this,” he said. “None of us signed up for this.”


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07 Apr 2020, 9:38 pm

Syd wrote:
https://www.wnyc.org/story/surge-number-new-yorkers-dying-home-officials-suspect-undercount-covid-19-related-deaths/

If you die at home from the coronavirus, there’s a good chance you won’t be included in the official death toll because of a discrepancy in New York City’s reporting process. The problem means the city’s official death count is likely far lower than the real toll taken by the virus, according to public health officials.


Appearently Dr. Brix said that anyone in the US who dies with Covid19, regardless of what else may be wrong, is now being recorded as a Covid19 death.

So it looks like the Covid19 death toll is going to start going way up.

It seems to me this is being done to facilitate their over exaggerated model predictions.

How do you make model predictions come true? Fudge the numbers of course.



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07 Apr 2020, 9:46 pm

I bet if the Covid Plague achieves global socialism the way Climate Catastrophe was trying to achieve it, we won't be hearing much about climate change any more. Looks like Greta Thunberg will be out of a job. Along with a billion other people.