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Raptor
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05 Aug 2014, 8:59 am

/\ :roll: :roll: It's about NOT facilitating your own misfortune. How hard can that be to grasp??


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sonofghandi
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05 Aug 2014, 9:17 am

Raptor wrote:
/\ :roll: :roll: It's about NOT facilitating your own misfortune. How hard can that be to grasp??


And I'm saying that no matter how foolish you think someone is, the primaty focus should be on those who do wrong. Crime is worse than stupidity in my book, so IMO more focus should be on the criminal.


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Raptor
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05 Aug 2014, 9:56 am

sonofghandi wrote:
Raptor wrote:
/\ :roll: :roll: It's about NOT facilitating your own misfortune. How hard can that be to grasp??


And I'm saying that no matter how foolish you think someone is, the primaty focus should be on those who do wrong. Crime is worse than stupidity in my book, so IMO more focus should be on the criminal.


Well no s**t! Did I ever say that doing the crime was not the primary culprit? No, I didnt even imply it. Getting back to drunkenness and rape, what I said was it's best for girls not to make themselves more vulnerable by being excessively intoxicated at parties or anywhere else in public.
I think I've been clear enough on this and I'm not going to change my stand on it.


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sonofghandi
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05 Aug 2014, 10:21 am

Raptor wrote:
sonofghandi wrote:
Raptor wrote:
/\ :roll: :roll: It's about NOT facilitating your own misfortune. How hard can that be to grasp??


And I'm saying that no matter how foolish you think someone is, the primaty focus should be on those who do wrong. Crime is worse than stupidity in my book, so IMO more focus should be on the criminal.


Well no sh**! Did I ever say that doing the crime was not the primary culprit? No, I didnt even imply it. Getting back to drunkenness and rape, what I said was it's best for girls not to make themselves more vulnerable by being excessively intoxicated at parties or anywhere else in public.
I think I've been clear enough on this and I'm not going to change my stand on it.


Considering that your only real input was that girls shouldn't get drunk, I made the assumption that this was your primary focus on the issue. You seemed to be putting a load of blame on females who drink more than they probably should, which I have a problem with.


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05 Aug 2014, 10:28 am

sonofghandi wrote:
Raptor wrote:
sonofghandi wrote:
Raptor wrote:
/\ :roll: :roll: It's about NOT facilitating your own misfortune. How hard can that be to grasp??


And I'm saying that no matter how foolish you think someone is, the primaty focus should be on those who do wrong. Crime is worse than stupidity in my book, so IMO more focus should be on the criminal.


Well no sh**! Did I ever say that doing the crime was not the primary culprit? No, I didnt even imply it. Getting back to drunkenness and rape, what I said was it's best for girls not to make themselves more vulnerable by being excessively intoxicated at parties or anywhere else in public.
I think I've been clear enough on this and I'm not going to change my stand on it.


Considering that your only real input was that girls shouldn't get drunk, I made the assumption that this was your primary focus on the issue. You seemed to be putting a load of blame on females who drink more than they probably should, which I have a problem with.


There is a lot of focus on the victim's behaviour in this thread. It's almost like the actions of a male rapist are something that cannot be altered, so women have to do what they can to protect themselves. Is this true? Is rapist behaviour unalterable?



Raptor
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05 Aug 2014, 10:58 am

Ann2011 wrote:
There is a lot of focus on the victim's behaviour in this thread.
That wasn't the intent but there has been an inordinate amount of misunderstanding (intentional or unintentional is debatable) and clarifying but apparently to no avail.

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It's almost like the actions of a male rapist are something that cannot be altered, so women have to do what they can to protect themselves.
A rapists behavior can and should be "altered" by a shot of pepper spray to the face, a kick in the nads, or better yet a few bullets delivered to the center of mass to name a few possible alterations. However, if someone is inebriated to the point of not having command of their faculties then they are not only a tempting target but also unable to identify a threat, let alone deal with it in one of more of the above prescribed methods.


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05 Aug 2014, 1:56 pm

Dox47 wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
Maybe chastity belts should come back in style.The girls and boys can drink their fill,pass out,and not worry about personal space intruders.But how do you pee with one on?Beer = bathroom trips.


You need the one with the slotted front...

Maybe one with an alarm that goes off."Intruder alert,Intruder alert."Something like a car alarm.


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05 Aug 2014, 6:19 pm

Raptor wrote:
However, if someone is inebriated to the point of not having command of their faculties then they are not only a tempting target but also unable to identify a threat, let alone deal with it in one of more of the above prescribed methods.


Yeah, but if you extrapolate from that then any victim who can act to avoid being such could be chastised in the same way. But this wouldn't be right. It is not for the victims to conform to their attacker's standards.
Raptor, I know you said someone, but I'm specifying women because that seems to be the general focus and I think women deserve no more chastisement then men for attending drinking parties and becoming so inebriated as to be not in control of their functioning. But I have to ask, does anybody need to be doing this? Perhaps the problem of rape could be addressed by dealing with the excessive drinking that exists among young people, especially on campuses. But I know that comes down to money. Beer and liquor producers are a big part of the economy.



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05 Aug 2014, 8:21 pm

Raptor wrote:
However, if someone is inebriated to the point of not having command of their faculties then they are not only a tempting target but also unable to identify a threat, let alone deal with it in one of more of the above prescribed methods.


Ann2011 wrote:
Yeah, but if you extrapolate from that then any victim who can act to avoid being such could be chastised in the same way. But this wouldn't be right. It is not for the victims to conform to their attacker's standards.
It's not about downplaying the crime of rape but about lessening one's vulnerability to it.

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Raptor, I know you said someone, but I'm specifying women because that seems to be the general focus and I think women deserve no more chastisement then men for attending drinking parties and becoming so inebriated as to be not in control of their functioning.
By "someone"and not specifically women my intent was that women aren't the only ones that should exercise caution about overindulgence and it's not just about rape. I'm not claiming the high ground either because I've been shitfaced too many times to count. I knew I'd be more vulnerable to anything in that state but took the risk anyway.

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But I have to ask, does anybody need to be doing this?
Need to? No, but that doesnt matter.

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Perhaps the problem of rape could be addressed by dealing with the excessive drinking that exists among young people, especially on campuses. But I know that comes down to money. Beer and liquor producers are a big part of the economy.
It's not just about money.
Ban drinking on campus and now it becomes a challenge like everything else that's illegal.
That and/or it'll drive all the drunken binges and parties off campus and the locals will have fits over that.
The cause of rape isn't booze any more than the cause of misspelled words is pencils. Rapist are predators and one of the ways to avoid being their prey is not to be so vulnerable. There will always be rapists so it's more a matter of countering them in the field or in the act than trying weed them out before the fact or catch and prosecute them after the fact.


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05 Aug 2014, 8:53 pm

Telling people not to make themselves easy targets is not "victim blaming", it's simple practicality. In a perfect world, you should be able to flash your cash in a poor neighborhood, leave valuables in the open in your house in front of an open window, leave your car running while you run into a shop for a second, or, yes, drink to excess in public, without suffering adverse consequences because of predatory people, but we don't live in that world, and it's stupid, not to mention potentially dangerous, to act as though we do. That's the entire point I'm trying to make here, and I suspect it's Raptor's as well.


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05 Aug 2014, 9:19 pm

Okay, I get what you are saying that it's not a perfect world - it's full of predators and one has to reduce one's vulnerability. It's just that the focus is on the poor behaviour of the victim rather than outrage that someone would do such a thing. It's like we've culturally given up on even attempting a perfect world.
I don't mean banning alcohol on campuses either, what I mean is people should have a different attitude to it. Wishful thinking there.
I don't think drunkenness is the cause of rape, but I do think it's a contributing factor. Like women, men make mistakes in judgement when they're drunk.



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05 Aug 2014, 9:28 pm

Ann2011 wrote:
Okay, I get what you are saying that it's not a perfect world - it's full of predators and one has to reduce one's vulnerability. It's just that the focus is on the poor behaviour of the victim rather than outrage that someone would do such a thing. It's like we've culturally given up on even attempting a perfect world.
I don't mean banning alcohol on campuses either, what I mean is people should have a different attitude to it. Wishful thinking there.
I don't think drunkenness is the cause of rape, but I do think it's a contributing factor. Like women, men make mistakes in judgement when they're drunk.


Close enough for now......


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05 Aug 2014, 11:15 pm

Raptor wrote:
Raptor wrote:
However, if someone is inebriated to the point of not having command of their faculties then they are not only a tempting target but also unable to identify a threat, let alone deal with it in one of more of the above prescribed methods.


Ann2011 wrote:
Yeah, but if you extrapolate from that then any victim who can act to avoid being such could be chastised in the same way. But this wouldn't be right. It is not for the victims to conform to their attacker's standards.
It's not about downplaying the crime of rape but about lessening one's vulnerability to it.

Quote:
Raptor, I know you said someone, but I'm specifying women because that seems to be the general focus and I think women deserve no more chastisement then men for attending drinking parties and becoming so inebriated as to be not in control of their functioning.
By "someone"and not specifically women my intent was that women aren't the only ones that should exercise caution about overindulgence and it's not just about rape. I'm not claiming the high ground either because I've been shitfaced too many times to count. I knew I'd be more vulnerable to anything in that state but took the risk anyway.

Quote:
But I have to ask, does anybody need to be doing this?
Need to? No, but that doesnt matter.

Quote:
Perhaps the problem of rape could be addressed by dealing with the excessive drinking that exists among young people, especially on campuses. But I know that comes down to money. Beer and liquor producers are a big part of the economy.
It's not just about money.
Ban drinking on campus and now it becomes a challenge like everything else that's illegal.
That and/or it'll drive all the drunken binges and parties off campus and the locals will have fits over that.
The cause of rape isn't booze any more than the cause of misspelled words is pencils. Rapist are predators and one of the ways to avoid being their prey is not to be so vulnerable. There will always be rapists so it's more a matter of countering them in the field or in the act than trying weed them out before the fact or catch and prosecute them after the fact.


How ever did you fly back to your nest shitfaced? :lol: :lol: :lol:


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06 Aug 2014, 9:10 am

^I bet he woke up next to a Golden eagle and wondered how he got there. :D


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06 Aug 2014, 9:35 am

I've driven home on "auto-pilot" a few times even before I was legally old enough to drink.
Auto-pilot meaning you and your car got home although there is no memory of driving home and you were in no condition to be walking let alone driving. Additionally, there is evidence that you drove your car and not someone else by the fact that you found your car the next morning parked half sideways with the door left open and a puddle of puke next to it.


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06 Aug 2014, 11:57 am

Raptor wrote:
I've driven home on "auto-pilot" a few times even before I was legally old enough to drink.
Auto-pilot meaning you and your car got home although there is no memory of driving home and you were in no condition to be walking let alone driving. Additionally, there is evidence that you drove your car and not someone else by the fact that you found your car the next morning parked half sideways with the door left open and a puddle of puke next to it.


I had driven home shitfaced more often than I like to admit in my younger years. As I had gained a tremendous tolerance to alcohol through many misspent nights, and weighed three hundred pounds in those days, and so was able to absorb beer much better, I was never in a state where I had no memory of driving home. :lol:
Today, my wife would murder me if I ever did anything that stupid again.


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