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Steve Scalise Shot during GOP Baseball Practice

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EzraS
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15 Jun 2017, 4:44 am

SH90 wrote:
EDIT:
I will disagree with EzraS on the coverage for people on ACA. At least the ones who have most of it covered by tax papers. They often have far superior coverage then the ones who actually pay for it for them.


I meant employer provided "affordable" healthcare. Now those people can bypass that and go with a plan offered by healthcare dot gov instead, but those plans are just as bad as the employer offered ones - unless they're subsidized. The folks getting it subsidized are getting a great deal. And I certainly understand their worry over losing it. But I don't believe that's the plan.



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15 Jun 2017, 5:08 am

New York’s Public Theater production of “ Julius Caesar, ” in which Central Park audiences watch Caesar as a blond-haired Donald Trump, who is pulled down from a podium by men in suits and assassinated with plunging knives. Kathy Griffin holding the decapitated head of Donald Trump.

The trivialization of the murder of a sitting president, --- because it's "fun" --- is not merely a reflection of "free speech"; it is a reflection of a sickness of character. When such abominable failures of human character are allowed to be trivialized, they are soon perceived as unexceptional. And once something becomes unexceptional, it is soon deemed acceptable.

The democrat/media climate of hate bears poisoned fruit.

Liberals were so worried about Trump destroying America before the election.
After the election, it's liberals who are destroying America.
Isn't that Ironic?



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15 Jun 2017, 5:43 am

Newt Gingrich says this has been brewing up since election night. He might be right, in an environment where their is so much anger towards the other side it only makes sense for a death like this to occur.



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15 Jun 2017, 5:56 am

Washington Post: Suspect’s friend said he is ‘not evil,’ believes he was fed up with politicians

This really disturbs me and makes me think that this baseball practice incident may be the first volley of much greater violence.

Quote:
“I guess I just want to let people know that he’s not evil,” Walsh said outside Hodgkinson’s home in Belleville, Ill. “I guess he was tired of some of the politics going on. Like in this state, we have politicians collecting a check and doing absolutely nothing for us.”


"I guess he was tired of some of the politics going on." This attempt to justify Hodgkinson's actions is really disturbing. It is an attempt to justify political violence. I can't believe someone would think that the shootings on the baseball field were anything but evil. They certainly weren't justifiable.



kraftiekortie
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15 Jun 2017, 6:11 am

No matter what, the shooting was a criminal act. Period, the end.



cyberdad
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15 Jun 2017, 6:30 am

Shrapnel wrote:
The trivialization of the murder of a sitting president, --- because it's "fun" --- is not merely a reflection of "free speech"; it is a reflection of a sickness of character. When such abominable failures of human character are allowed to be trivialized, they are soon perceived as unexceptional. And once something becomes unexceptional, it is soon deemed acceptable.

And GOP politicians comparing Obama and his wife to gorillas for jokes is acceptable?



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15 Jun 2017, 6:32 am

Lest we forget
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassina ... rack_Obama



EzraS
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15 Jun 2017, 7:13 am

cyberdad wrote:
Lest we forget
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassina ... rack_Obama


So their plan is to break that record? Maybe they already have. In less than a year even.



friedmacguffins
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15 Jun 2017, 10:59 am

Shrapnel wrote:
New York’s Public Theater production of “ Julius Caesar, ” in which Central Park audiences watch Caesar as a blond-haired Donald Trump, who is pulled down from a podium by men in suits and assassinated with plunging knives.


Pulled down from a podium by *black men in suits.

NYPT bastardized the plot of Shakespeare's original, in which the death blow is dealt by Caesar's closest associate. (Et tu, Brute?)

CAESAR:Let me have men about me that are fat,
Sleek-headed men and such as sleep a-nights.
Yond Cassius has a lean and hungry look.
He thinks too much. Such men are dangerous.

But, the plot was carried out, by the fat and sleek-headed.

The change agents are just passive instruments, in the hands of the elite.

Yuri Bezmenov called them useful idiots.

Let's say, hypothetically, that they successfully pull-off a coup. What will be the need for provocateurs, street theater, and agitprop, under the new administration.

In Russia, the biggest proponents of Communism would have outlived their usefulness, under Communism.



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15 Jun 2017, 11:11 am

Shrapnel wrote:
It would be instructive to contrast press treatment of this attack with that following the attack on Rep. Giffords in 2011. At that time an article in the NYT stated:" Ms. Giffords was also among a group of Democratic [sic] House candidates featured on the Web site of Sarah Palin’s political action committee with cross hairs over their district . . . ” I missed the New York Times’ and the Democrat Party’s mea culpa today.
It would also be nice if somebody on the left, somebody with a shred of credibility, would stand up and denounce campus violence, hate-speech, F-bombs by Gillibrand and Perez, idiots like Griffin, and all general vitriol masquerading as free speech.
I hope this event reduces the MSM and Hollywood hatred for Trump, at least a while. We need a break from the hatred


Double standards are the norm. Infowars these days is blaming the entire progressive movement for the actions of individuals and small groups.

Infowars had not mentioned the possibility that yesterdays attack was a "false flag". They are completely buying the "lamestream" media's description of the suspect as a progressive. Infowars is probably most responsible for popularizing the phrase "false flag".

When a libaterian/conservative/ gun rights supporter is a suspect they are the first to scream that the libertarian/populist movement is being framed. If it is not a false flag they say the suspect did it because society prescribes too many drugs (or the suspect was given drugs to make him do it.). Yet their sole explanation is that this suspect did it because he was brainwashed by the left, by Kathy Griffith, by the Trump beheading play. In this case that does not wash. The guy was 66 years old and despised Republicans a long time.

I used Infowars because nobody used them as an example yet but all of us have selective memories.


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15 Jun 2017, 12:02 pm

EzraS wrote:
SH90 wrote:
EDIT:
I will disagree with EzraS on the coverage for people on ACA. At least the ones who have most of it covered by tax papers. They often have far superior coverage then the ones who actually pay for it for them.


I meant employer provided "affordable" healthcare. Now those people can bypass that and go with a plan offered by healthcare dot gov instead, but those plans are just as bad as the employer offered ones - unless they're subsidized. The folks getting it subsidized are getting a great deal. And I certainly understand their worry over losing it. But I don't believe that's the plan.

Dude, you have a lot of WRONG notions about the ACA and the GOP replacement. If you want to learn about actual coverages, costs, and changes, I urge you to check out this website...

http://www.kff.org/

also, you can use this tool to see actual costs:

http://www.kff.org/interactive/subsidy-calculator/


As I said before, health insurance is too expensive for people who make above subsidy levels, which is currently 400% of federal poverty levels, but the solution is not to take away care from poor people.

Right now hospitals are required to treat everyone, regardless of their ability to pay. If we go back to pre ACA levels of insured, treatment of uninsured poor will drive costs up for everybody.

Like it or not, that is a fact.


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SH90
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15 Jun 2017, 12:05 pm

EzraS wrote:
SH90 wrote:
EDIT:
I will disagree with EzraS on the coverage for people on ACA. At least the ones who have most of it covered by tax papers. They often have far superior coverage then the ones who actually pay for it for them.


I meant employer provided "affordable" healthcare. Now those people can bypass that and go with a plan offered by healthcare dot gov instead, but those plans are just as bad as the employer offered ones - unless they're subsidized. The folks getting it subsidized are getting a great deal. And I certainly understand their worry over losing it. But I don't believe that's the plan.


As long as the employers plan is considered comprehensive. They wouldn't qualify for a government subsidy in the marketplace. They can still decline employer coverage, but they would be paying full price for Obamacare... I have seen in a few instances where single people my age, get nearly free coverage with stupid low out of pocket and deductibles. But they are young and healthy, most don't use it.

cyberdad wrote:
Lest we forget
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassina ... rack_Obama


Threats are made on presidents and other government officials all the time, and they all should be taken seriously... Very rarely does someone take action.



androbot01
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15 Jun 2017, 12:27 pm

Quote:
While Scalise dragged himself to safety, Griner and Bailey lept into action. In an extended firefight, the two agents took down shooter James Hodgkinson while battling through injuries of their own. Both were taken to the hospital after the gunfight, and are recovering from their injuries, officials say.


Heavy: The Hero Cops Who Prevented a Congressional ‘Massacre’

Image



GoonSquad
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15 Jun 2017, 12:28 pm

androbot01 wrote:
Washington Post: Suspect’s friend said he is ‘not evil,’ believes he was fed up with politicians

This really disturbs me and makes me think that this baseball practice incident may be the first volley of much greater violence.

Quote:
“I guess I just want to let people know that he’s not evil,” Walsh said outside Hodgkinson’s home in Belleville, Ill. “I guess he was tired of some of the politics going on. Like in this state, we have politicians collecting a check and doing absolutely nothing for us.”


"I guess he was tired of some of the politics going on." This attempt to justify Hodgkinson's actions is really disturbing. It is an attempt to justify political violence. I can't believe someone would think that the shootings on the baseball field were anything but evil. They certainly weren't justifiable.



No, this is not justifiable, but it is understandable. As I said before, this is what happens when people feel disenfranchised and disempowered politically.

The more either side marginalizes the other with extreme policies, abuse of power, etc. the more this kind of thing will happen.

This is not new. See the Gracchi:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gracchi

Quote:
The Gracchus brothers, Tiberius and Gaius, were Romans who both served as tribunes in the late 2nd century BC. They attempted to pass land reform legislation that would redistribute the major aristocratic landholdings among the urban poor and veterans, in addition to other reform measures. After achieving some early success, both were assassinated by enemies of these reforms.


These guys used populist politics and abused their power/office to push their agenda through. With no other recourse, their opponents resorted to violence to stop them. This, more than any other event, marked the beginning of the end of the Roman Republic.

The US is evenly divided politically. Both sides need to cool their rhetoric and learn to compromise again or violence will happen more often and the US republic will fail too.


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GoonSquad
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15 Jun 2017, 12:58 pm

SH90 wrote:
EzraS wrote:
SH90 wrote:
EDIT:
I will disagree with EzraS on the coverage for people on ACA. At least the ones who have most of it covered by tax papers. They often have far superior coverage then the ones who actually pay for it for them.


I meant employer provided "affordable" healthcare. Now those people can bypass that and go with a plan offered by healthcare dot gov instead, but those plans are just as bad as the employer offered ones - unless they're subsidized. The folks getting it subsidized are getting a great deal. And I certainly understand their worry over losing it. But I don't believe that's the plan.


As long as the employers plan is considered comprehensive. They wouldn't qualify for a government subsidy in the marketplace. They can still decline employer coverage, but they would be paying full price for Obamacare... I have seen in a few instances where single people my age, get nearly free coverage with stupid low out of pocket and deductibles. But they are young and healthy, most don't use it.

Look, I understand why young, healthy, higher income people would resent the ACA. During my 20s and 30s I was uninsured, I made a lot of money and I would not have qualified for subsidies and I would have HATED Obamacare.

But, in my 40s I was lucky enough to have access to some good, cheap ($100/month) gold plan insurance via my school. It was a good thing too. In the last 4-5 years I went from extremely fit to very sick, and I've racked up about $500,000.00 in medical bills--that's pre-insurance prices. My insurance company settled for about a third of that, which is pretty typical...

You can cry about tax payers paying for poor people's health insurance, but if I was not covered, tax payers would have been stuck with a half-million dollar medical bill for me.

Unless we start denying people medical care based on their ability to pay, we need to find a way to make sure everyone has coverage.

So, unless you are prepared to step over uninsured people dying in the street (and that could be you), we need to come up with a sensible way to pay for everyone's care. The ACA doesn't do that, but the GOP plan is even worse.


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15 Jun 2017, 2:26 pm

Huzzah for the Second Amendment!