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Should Virginia governor Northam resign over racist pix

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Should governor Northam be forced to resign?
Yes - there should be zero tolerance 27%  27%  [ 7 ]
Yes - if Hollywood and business figures must resign over past sex harassment 8%  8%  [ 2 ]
No - he has clearly "outgrown" it 15%  15%  [ 4 ]
No - as long as he still governs effectively 38%  38%  [ 10 ]
Who cares? 12%  12%  [ 3 ]
Total votes : 26

cyberdad
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09 Feb 2019, 2:50 am

kokopelli wrote:
I don't think that you understand what constitutes corroborating evidence. To be corroborating evidence, it has to be evidence that supports the witness with facts about that particular crime.

The two other women were not corroborating witnesses to the supposed attack. To be corroborating witnesses, they would have to provide evidence regarding an assault by Kavanaugh on Blase-Ford.

I guess that a prosecutor could bring charges based on nothing more than the witness's testimony, but it is hard to imagine getting a conviction without any actual evidence. Most likely, any reputable prosecutor would not prosecute without more evidence.

There is nothing open and shut about it.


Yes you are correct it's not corroborating evidence but how is this different from the Bill Cosby rapes?



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09 Feb 2019, 2:02 pm

BeaArthur wrote:
(Only Eminem seems to have figured out a white person can rap without blackface, apparently.)

Really? What about Vanilla Ice, Post Malone, Riff Raff, Iggy Azalea (female), and Kid Rock----and those are only the ones I can think of off the top of my head, and I'm nowhere NEAR a Rap fan; and I'm sure there's a bunch, more.






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09 Feb 2019, 2:10 pm

cyberdad wrote:
Well given a current US supreme court judge raped three women in college...

Please give the URLs to his convictions.

Secondly, Ford never accused him of rape!

Lastly, one of the women recanted her statement.

So, now, you wanna tell us how there's three women, again.




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cyberdad
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09 Feb 2019, 5:11 pm

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... 4603c03750

No he (Kavanaugh) nearly asphyxiated her (Blasey-Ford) while sexually assaulting her. Then there's Deborah Ramirez who he sexually assaulted. Like an episode of lawyers behaving like criminals in ABC's "How to get away with murder". Except this is real life and he (Kavanaugh) is pretending to be a clean family man.

There is a third woman Julie Swetnick who observed Kavanaugh raping girls in his dorm parties between 1981-1983 indicating his attack on Blasey-Ford was (not surprisingly) repeated on numerous college girls. She herself was a victim when Kavanaugh was present.

How did he get away with it? code of silence, all the frat boys either indulged in (what Swetnick calls) "train of boys" waiting to gang rape drunk girls or were present when it happened. Nobody broke the code because vicarious liability any whisteblower risked getting prosecuted themselves.

Meanwhile the girls dared not reveal their sexual assault due to the shame and stigma associated, plus since they were plied with alcohol their recollection would be considered unreliable. I imagine how hard it must be for Swetnick and Ramirez to so bravely come forward given the PTSD it must also trigger reliving these historic episodes.

As a woman I am surprised you lack empathy for the victims??



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09 Feb 2019, 6:30 pm

cyberdad wrote:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2018/09/27/brett-kavanaugh-allegations-sexual-misconduct-complete-list/?utm_term=.0c4603c03750

No he (Kavanaugh) nearly asphyxiated her (Blasey-Ford) while sexually assaulting her. Then there's Deborah Ramirez who he sexually assaulted. Like an episode of lawyers behaving like criminals in ABC's "How to get away with murder". Except this is real life and he (Kavanaugh) is pretending to be a clean family man.

There is a third woman Julie Swetnick who observed Kavanaugh raping girls in his dorm parties between 1981-1983 indicating his attack on Blasey-Ford was (not surprisingly) repeated on numerous college girls. She herself was a victim when Kavanaugh was present.

How did he get away with it? code of silence, all the frat boys either indulged in (what Swetnick calls) "train of boys" waiting to gang rape drunk girls or were present when it happened. Nobody broke the code because vicarious liability any whisteblower risked getting prosecuted themselves.

Meanwhile the girls dared not reveal their sexual assault due to the shame and stigma associated, plus since they were plied with alcohol their recollection would be considered unreliable. I imagine how hard it must be for Swetnick and Ramirez to so bravely come forward given the PTSD it must also trigger reliving these historic episodes.

As a woman I am surprised you lack empathy for the victims??

LOLOLOL I see you're still allowing yourself to be driven PURELY by emotion, and not THINKING things through.....

From your own article:

Washington Post wrote:
Other people that Ford named as being present at the party, including Judge, said they had no recollection of any such party or such an attack.

Other students who Ramirez said were involved in a drinking game disputed her version of events.

Swetnick: Corroborators: None publicly identified.

Julie Swetnick OBSERVED Kavanaugh raping girls? Where does it say that? It says she observed the "train of boys"----Hello? Why would ANY person with even HALF a heart/brain observe such an atrocity ("observed Kavanaugh raping girls"), and not report it? There would be no "shame and stigma", as you say, if she were not directly involved.

I lack empathy for LIARS!! And, because I am a woman, I know what slime-balls some women can be. (That's not to say that some men can't be, but...)

I was raised around THREE narcissists who were forever blaming their husbands for stuff they didn't do----and, mainly, the reason they told such lies on their husbands was, simply, because they hadn't gotten their way. One of my brothers-in-law almost spent Christmas in jail, a couple of years, ago. Why? Because my sister provoked him, manipulated him, and then when he didn't respond how she wanted him to, she called the cops and had him arrested on domestic charges.

I've worked with women who've done the same thing. One of them was constantly physically pushing her husband, so he'd hit her, then she'd call the cops, and have him arrested.

It's absolutely evil and despicable what some women do, and this is why I'm such a fierce defender of men----that's NOT to say that it doesn't TRULY happen to some women----but, if you want me to believe without proof, and just believe a woman because she says so (like the movement wants people to do), you'll have to try again, cuz it's not happening, with me!!




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cyberdad
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09 Feb 2019, 8:52 pm

Campin_Cat wrote:
[LOLOLOL I see you're still allowing yourself to be driven PURELY by emotion, and not THINKING things through.....

But wasn't that the same argument used by defense lawyers for Donald Trump and Bill Cosby regarding sexual assault/rape allegations?

The women involved were accused of being hysterical or worse opportunist. The issue of the time that elapsed between the incidents and the allegations are also similar. Finally the indignation and off topic ranting from the accused (Trump,Cosby and Kavanaugh) is interesting,

For a man poised to hold the highest legal office in the US he (Kavanaugh) behaved incredibly irrationally to questions about his conduct back in college. Speaking of liars Kavanaugh lied about his drinking, and his aggressive behavior which (ironically) were on display from his outbursts during the investigations were either a sign of severe mental instability or his struggle to hide the truth.

I won't go into the page of lies he made when taking the stand (google it) but a conservative and very generous assessment from a psychologist published in "Psychology Today" concludes:

Kavanaugh, if he is telling the truth, would seem to have the most to gain from further investigation, as would the Republicans. But that doesn't seem to be what they want. That's odd.

Admittedly None of this makes Kavanaugh guilty. This wasn't a trial. That should come in the future.

However, as job interviews go, I don't imagine any self-respecting organization would hire anyone with Kavanaugh's present credentials.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/au/blog ... d-hearings

This means that although the evidence collected hasn't been pursued by the FBI any further (we know why), Kavanaugh should still resign and step down (he appears to have no shame)



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09 Feb 2019, 9:08 pm

Cosby admitted having sex with the women, claiming that it was consensual, after giving them illegal drugs to get them to have sex with him.



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09 Feb 2019, 9:40 pm

There should not be zero tolerance ever. There are tons of stories about zero tolerance policies gone wrong when they were forced to go by the letter of the law rather than the intent. Zero tolerance leaves no room for interpretation. Zero tolerance means zero sense.


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09 Feb 2019, 10:07 pm

LOLOLOL Way to deflect! Spin on----I'm done with you, on this topic.....











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cyberdad
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09 Feb 2019, 10:29 pm

kokopelli wrote:
Cosby admitted having sex with the women, claiming that it was consensual, after giving them illegal drugs to get them to have sex with him.

Yeah I think he made the admission with Andrea Constandt.

My point was the defense tactics he and his lawyers used seemed awfully similar to those of Trump and Kavanaugh...or for that matter Clinton, Clarence Thomas and Harvey Weinstein



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10 Feb 2019, 6:14 pm

RetroGamer87 wrote:
There should not be zero tolerance ever. There are tons of stories about zero tolerance policies gone wrong when they were forced to go by the letter of the law rather than the intent. Zero tolerance leaves no room for interpretation. Zero tolerance means zero sense.


Like kids getting expelled from school for carrying their prescribed medications?

There was a story years ago about a high school girl dying from something that she had an medication to deal with it for emergencies. The problem was that the anti-drug rules required the school nurse to keep the medication instead of her carrying it on her. Naturally, when she minutes to live, the school nurse wasn't available to give her the medication.



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10 Feb 2019, 6:14 pm

cyberdad wrote:
kokopelli wrote:
Cosby admitted having sex with the women, claiming that it was consensual, after giving them illegal drugs to get them to have sex with him.

Yeah I think he made the admission with Andrea Constandt.

My point was the defense tactics he and his lawyers used seemed awfully similar to those of Trump and Kavanaugh...or for that matter Clinton, Clarence Thomas and Harvey Weinstein


What do defense tactics have to do with it? In Cosby's case, there was corroboration. There was no such corroboration in Kavanaugh's case. Also, the victims in Cosby's case were believable. In Kavanaugh's, it stunk like a political hit job.



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10 Feb 2019, 6:58 pm

kokopelli wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
kokopelli wrote:
Cosby admitted having sex with the women, claiming that it was consensual, after giving them illegal drugs to get them to have sex with him.

Yeah I think he made the admission with Andrea Constandt.

My point was the defense tactics he and his lawyers used seemed awfully similar to those of Trump and Kavanaugh...or for that matter Clinton, Clarence Thomas and Harvey Weinstein


What do defense tactics have to do with it? In Cosby's case, there was corroboration. There was no such corroboration in Kavanaugh's case. Also, the victims in Cosby's case were believable. In Kavanaugh's, it stunk like a political hit job.


There was corroboration from her therapist, who said she talked about it with her years before Kavanaugh was chosen for the supreme court. That is corroboration, the therapist would have it in her notes which if she was willing to testify that the accuser talked to her about this in therapy sessions she would be willing to share with the investigation as long as she had the client's permission to share info from sessions that is otherwise convidential.



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10 Feb 2019, 7:17 pm

karathraceandherspecialdestiny wrote:
kokopelli wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
kokopelli wrote:
Cosby admitted having sex with the women, claiming that it was consensual, after giving them illegal drugs to get them to have sex with him.

Yeah I think he made the admission with Andrea Constandt.

My point was the defense tactics he and his lawyers used seemed awfully similar to those of Trump and Kavanaugh...or for that matter Clinton, Clarence Thomas and Harvey Weinstein


What do defense tactics have to do with it? In Cosby's case, there was corroboration. There was no such corroboration in Kavanaugh's case. Also, the victims in Cosby's case were believable. In Kavanaugh's, it stunk like a political hit job.


There was corroboration from her therapist, who said she talked about it with her years before Kavanaugh was chosen for the supreme court. That is corroboration, the therapist would have it in her notes which if she was willing to testify that the accuser talked to her about this in therapy sessions she would be willing to share with the investigation as long as she had the client's permission to share info from sessions that is otherwise convidential.


Unless the therapist witnessed the attack, her testimony would not be corroboration.



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10 Feb 2019, 9:27 pm

Note to self: Don't start any more threads like this.


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10 Feb 2019, 11:49 pm

kokopelli wrote:
karathraceandherspecialdestiny wrote:
kokopelli wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
kokopelli wrote:
Cosby admitted having sex with the women, claiming that it was consensual, after giving them illegal drugs to get them to have sex with him.

Yeah I think he made the admission with Andrea Constandt.

My point was the defense tactics he and his lawyers used seemed awfully similar to those of Trump and Kavanaugh...or for that matter Clinton, Clarence Thomas and Harvey Weinstein


What do defense tactics have to do with it? In Cosby's case, there was corroboration. There was no such corroboration in Kavanaugh's case. Also, the victims in Cosby's case were believable. In Kavanaugh's, it stunk like a political hit job.


There was corroboration from her therapist, who said she talked about it with her years before Kavanaugh was chosen for the supreme court. That is corroboration, the therapist would have it in her notes which if she was willing to testify that the accuser talked to her about this in therapy sessions she would be willing to share with the investigation as long as she had the client's permission to share info from sessions that is otherwise convidential.


Unless the therapist witnessed the attack, her testimony would not be corroboration.


How could it not be? What possible reason could she have had to lie to her therapist about this years ago? If she talked to her therapist about it that is corroboration that it did happen to her because that is the sort of thing you would tell your therapist. That you can't see that as corroboration of her story is strange to me, but not a surprise. A lot of people (usually men but sometimes other women as well) need to not believe women in this situation and will invent all kinds of out-there theories to explain what "really" happened to them and why they would publicly lie about something like being sexually assaulted when the most likely explanation a good 95% of the time is that they were assaulted like they claim.