Syrian Revolution

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11 Dec 2024, 12:18 am

kokopelli wrote:

From my point of view, it should be considered absurd for someone to even think about defending ISIS. They are even more evil than Hamas.

I think the point here was to defend the new Syrian government, not to defend Daesh (a.k.a. ISIS). The new Syrian government is probably not fond of Daesh either.

HTS, despite its Al Qaeda roots, has turned out to be surprisingly moderate (e.g. refusing to regulate women's clothing), at least for now. That being the case, it seems to me that both the U.S.A. and Israel ought to talk to the new Syrian government rather than attack Syrian territory, or attack the buffer zone. Any attacks on Daesh, by the U.S.A., probably could and should be coordinated with the new Syrian government. Why treat the new Syrian government so disrespectfully from the get-go?

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11 Dec 2024, 12:20 am

kokopelli wrote:

TwilightPrincess wrote:

What about the terrorist attacks carried out by Israel? What about their use of chemical weapons and their indiscriminate fire on civilians? What about their decades long mistreatment of Palestine?

The death tolls, list of war crimes and human rights violations as well as the determination of international courts speak for themselves.

Facts and common sense do seem to be expressed by some here.

If Israel looks at you crosswise, it's a terrorist attack?

If ISIS murders your friends, family, and neighbors, it is noble response to being called names or something?

Is that how it works?

If you want to tell me that Israel has done some reprehensible things over the years, I would readily agree with you. But if you want to tell me that they are terrorists, I'm not going to believe that without substantial evidence.

To start with, how many Israelis are suicide bombers walking into store to murder as many people as possible?

Just because a group doesn’t engage in the same exact strategies as other terrorists doesn’t mean they aren’t terrorists (or the equivalent).

I’m not in the mood to argue about this topic yet again. It’s been gone over and over this past year. As I said, the death tolls, war crimes, and human rights violations speak for themselves. Netanyahu is a war criminal.

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11 Dec 2024, 12:26 am

Terrorism is basically the use of force such as murder or imprisonment, primarily against civilians, for the purpose of making them too scared to oppose the political agenda of the terrorists.

Building a wall or guarding a border is not an act of terrorism.

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11 Dec 2024, 12:27 am

kokopelli wrote:

Terrorism is basically the use of force such as murder or imprisonment, primarily against civilians, for the purpose of making them too scared to oppose the political agenda of the terrorists.

Yes, Israel has done that.

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11 Dec 2024, 12:30 am

Mona Pereth wrote:

kokopelli wrote:

From my point of view, it should be considered absurd for someone to even think about defending ISIS. They are even more evil than Hamas.

Is there a new Syrian government already? It seems awfully fast for the Syrian people to form one.

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11 Dec 2024, 12:30 am

TwilightPrincess wrote:

kokopelli wrote:

Terrorism is basically the use of force such as murder or imprisonment, primarily against civilians, for the purpose of making them too scared to oppose the political agenda of the terrorists.

Yes, Israel has done that.

Examples with citations, please.

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11 Dec 2024, 12:35 am

kokopelli wrote:

Jakki wrote:

Yes it seems Israel doesnt not have enough bombs to drop on Syria....Now the USA and Turkey are bombing them too.
How is joining this activity with a genocidal country going to ,,NOT,, going to create more terrorists for Western leaning countries...They/ We are behaving is not going to be very acceptable to many other countries in the world ...And all this is happening after Assad got asylum,and in no longer in control of that place. Wouldn't this be an ideal time for nation building..And appearing to help those whom suffered under Assad.?

Bombing terrorist targets creates new terrorists?

Do you have any idea how many terrorist attacks have been carried out by the Islamic State?

ISIS never carried out attacks against Israel.

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11 Dec 2024, 12:38 am

kokopelli wrote:

TwilightPrincess wrote:

kokopelli wrote:

Terrorism is basically the use of force such as murder or imprisonment, primarily against civilians, for the purpose of making them too scared to oppose the political agenda of the terrorists.

Yes, Israel has done that.

Examples with citations, please.

I’m not going to spend time citing sources and data yet again. This topic has been covered extensively in other threads this year. You might want to peruse some of them and see what has already been said here on this topic.

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11 Dec 2024, 12:39 am

kokopelli wrote:

From one story:

Quote:

He [Netanyahu] said events in Syria had been the result of Israeli strikes against Iran and the Iran-backed Lebanese armed group Hezbollah, Assad's allies, and insisted Israel would "send a hand of peace" to Syrians who wanted to live in peace with Israel.

The IDF seizure of Syrian positions in the buffer zone was a "temporary defensive position until a suitable arrangement is found", he said.

"If we can establish neighbourly relations and peaceful relations with the new forces emerging in Syria, that's our desire. But if we do not, we will do whatever it takes to defend the State of Israel and the border of Israel," he said.

That doesn't sound unreasonable to me.

Defense means staying in own’s territory.

Not invading half of the other country till few Kms away of the capital.

Your definition of defense is very weird.

Last edited by The_Face_of_Boo on 11 Dec 2024, 12:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

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11 Dec 2024, 12:47 am

Jono wrote:

It bothers me that the HTS was a breakaway from Al Qeada. As much as I don't like Al Assad, I think it would have been better if he was overthrown by the more secular rebels, like the Kurdish ones, because otherwise they may turn out to be worse than Al Assad. I just hope that this doesn't turn out like another Iranian revolution.

Regardless what it may turn out, not gonna feel sorry for Assad’s loss. Good riddance.

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11 Dec 2024, 12:49 am

Mona Pereth wrote:

kokopelli wrote:

From my point of view, it should be considered absurd for someone to even think about defending ISIS. They are even more evil than Hamas.

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:

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11 Dec 2024, 1:41 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:

Mona Pereth wrote:

kokopelli wrote:

From my point of view, it should be considered absurd for someone to even think about defending ISIS. They are even more evil than Hamas.

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:

Off topic, I know, but I still vividly recall that incident from WWE!

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11 Dec 2024, 3:36 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:

kokopelli wrote:

Jakki wrote:

Bombing terrorist targets creates new terrorists?

Do you have any idea how many terrorist attacks have been carried out by the Islamic State?

ISIS never carried out attacks against Israel.

They haven't done much against Israel, which is surprising, but they have claimed credit for some murders in Israel by Arabs. They have also attacked a number of Jews in other countries. There surely isn't much doubt that there wouldn't be much greater problems if ISIS came to control Syria.

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11 Dec 2024, 3:39 am

TwilightPrincess wrote:

kokopelli wrote:

Examples with citations, please.

Something makes me think that you are defining terrorism as being anything Israel does that you don't like.

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11 Dec 2024, 4:28 am

kokopelli wrote:

Mona Pereth wrote:

HTS, despite its Al Qaeda roots, has turned out to be surprisingly moderate (e.g. refusing to regulate women's clothing), at least for now. That being the case, it seems to me that both the U.S.A. and Israel ought to talk to the new Syrian government rather than attack Syrian territory, or attack the buffer zone. Any attacks on Daesh, by the U.S.A., probably could and should be coordinated with the new Syrian government. Why treat the new Syrian government so disrespectfully from the get-go?

Is there a new Syrian government already? It seems awfully fast for the Syrian people to form one.

Most government institutions have been left more-or-less intact. Only the top levels have been overthrown, with HTS now in charge, and a lot of political prisoners have been released. (See recent news stories in this thread.)

The new government may be in a state of flux, but that's no excuse for outsiders to come in and bomb the place, unless the people in charge specifically request outside help with fighting against Daesh.

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11 Dec 2024, 4:37 am

kokopelli wrote:

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:

ISIS never carried out attacks against Israel.

Yes if Daesh (ISIS) came to control Syria, that would be a disaster, and not just for Israel.

But outsiders should proceed carefully and treat the new revolutionary government with respect. The new revolutionary government, too, has a stake in opposing Daesh, and, to that end, should be treated by the U.S.A. and others as at least an ally of convenience.

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