'Gaza vs Israel' An interesting article I found.

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The Zionist side are pathological liars. Some Zionist paranoid extremists claim for instance that the Palestinians all moved to Palestine as part of a plot to thwart the Jews - yes, everyone always is out to thwart the Jews. They found out that Jews were moving to "empty" Palestine so they organised their own movement to move Arabs into Palestine, they claim. It was like some kind of race, I guess. More mainstream Zionists claim that these Palestinians showed up later to work on the prosperous Jewish farms... Never mind that the Jewish farms banned Arab labour, the whole point of Zionism was to answer the anti-Semitic criticism that said that Jews were rootless cosmopolitans and only working the land would make them real people. So the Jewish colonies had exclusively Jewish labour. This idea that Arabs were showing up for work when there was none is ridiculous.

What evidence do you have that Israel is the one that starts all the conflicts? The fact is that Hamas launches rockets into Israel and into mostly civilian areas and Israel responds to those attacks. What is going on in the Israeli-Palestine conflict is no way similar to Apartheid South Africa. People ignore the fact that there are Arab Israelis. The problem with the destruction of Israel being in Hamas' charter is that it denies that Israel has the right to exist as a nation and it proves that Hamas has absolutely no interest in peace. As for the people who believe in Armageddon, that is just a belief. However, Hamas' charter is a policy document and the fact that the destruction of Israel is in there means that Israel has a right to defend itself. Maybe if there weren't any suicide bombers, there would be no need for that wall either, don't you think?

That is what Yitzhak Rabin said before he ordered the walls to be built. He could not figure out any other way to deal with the problem that was not escaltion of violence.. If the palestinians ever really wanted peace, it would exist. Instead, they continue to send rockets into towns full of innocent civilians, The palistinians, believe in islam which says everyone who is not a muslum, including babies are legitimate targets. Islam is twisted an wicked religion that states "kill and terrorize the unbelievers". The only peace the muslum religion will accept is the one that comes from killing everyone in the world that is not muslum.. I have freedom of religion, and all these people who lie to defend muslum atrocities are working against my freedoms. They are either muslums themselves or disgustingly naive.

Desmond Tutu says it's Apartheid. Why, Prime Minister Verwoerd of South Africa thought so in 1961 (back then Israeli Arabs were under military rule).

The first suicide bomber struck in April 1994. That was many years after the Nakhba and many years after 1967. It was retaliation for the Goldstein Massacre that was promptly rewarded by Rabin - the victims were banned from the market and are still banned and the crazies among Goldstein were given the run of the place.

Israel called Gaza an enemy entity and sealed it off before the toy rockets were fired so I think it's silly to say that the rockets started it.

What's important here are the facts. Whatever Desmond Tutu or Verwoerd said regarding the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is irrelevant if it doesn't represent reality. Desmond Tutu and some people in the ANC are supporters of Palestine, while whatever Verwoerd might of said was probably a propaganda campaign.

No, the first suicide bomber did not strike in 1994, there was an earlier one by Hamas in 1993. Also, the Israeli government has never condoned the Goldstein Massacre and even had the shrine dismantled that was put there by Jewish fundamentalists. Do you honestly believe that a suicide bombing against innocent civilians who had absolutely nothing to do with that massacre is justified? If that's what you believe then you are sadly mistaken. Also, the Goldstone report included atrocities committed by both Hams and Israel. It found that Hamas, in fact deliberately launched rockets into civilian areas. The fact that the UNHRC targeted only Israel in response to the report shows bias and in fact was criticized as such by Richard Goldstone himself.

The government certainly did endorse the Goldstein Massacre by its actions. It punished the community that was attacked (extended collective house arrest followed by eternal ban from the market) and rewarded the community that carried out the attack (let them run amok). Such actions clearly was a rewarding of the Goldstein Massacre.

As for Tutu and Verwoerd, they both knew all about Apartheid, they lived it, they were both on different sides of it, and they both drew the conclusion.

As for suicide bombings, polling shows that when the suicide bombings were at its height, Israeli Jewish support for peace was at its highest. Now with no more suicide bombings, support for blowing up the Haram al-Sharif is at its highest.

It sounds like you support the suicide bombers killing random jews. Or at least don't mind the idea. Please elaborate.

"The Arabs only know the language of force", the Zionists have said from the beginning. That's their mantra. Seems to me that this is a case of projection.

They did say, "The Palestinians must show the Israelis Jews that they have nothing to fear, that they'll sign peace and there'll be confidence building measures". They signed Oslo and then the settlement population DOUBLED in seven years! Seems to me that they used these confidence-building measures to GRAB as much as possible.

That does not address your opinion on the suicide bombers.

I said that the suicide bombings succeeded in moderating the Israelis. Peace and quiet seems to radicalise them. That shows that when they say "Arabs only know the language of force", that they really mean that it is they who only know the language of force. Palestinians who try non-violence are brutalised and killed by Israel and the Western media blacks out reports of such events. So it's useless. They've overwhelmingly gone with non-violence, from the philosophy of Samud to more activist types of non-violence that overwhelmingly marked the first intefada. The only things that make the West more sympathetic are the use of puny weapons to get a disproportionate Israeli response but that's essentially suicide and even then, the Israelis are very good at spinning puny weapons as mortal dangers to Jewry. Take those rockets from Gaza, they're toys, they're not much more than those things kids play with in parks, and it's a deadly missile salvo they say and the Western media buys it hook, line and sinker. Good grief.

Who's indulging in propaganda now?

The "toy" rocket mantra is nothing more than a response in kind, and should be dismissed with the same disregard as "spin" from either side of the debate.

Conflating "support for peace" in times of suicide bombings and "support for blowing up the Haram" in times withouth them is nothing short of academic dishonesty. The two levels of "support" are nowhere near comparable. Now, if support for peace had dropped below the level of support for blowing up the Haram, there might be a story to tell.

Now, I don't disagree that the majority of Palestinians (and the majority of Israelis, come to that) are moderate, reasonable people in search of a stable, peaceful resolution. However, until the Palestinians develop the capacity to maintain stable, effective government over their population and their territory, the prospects for that peace are elusive. Israel deserves condemnation for it's settlement policy, but not for the blockade, or it's response to violent attacks. A more nuanced evaluation might well serve your agenda better.

All of them I have met on both sides are nice people as individuals. They get along fine with each other as long as it is one to one. The problems happen when a group of troublemakers get together. I agree with visagrunts statements.

I had to run to a shelter plenty of times to make sure I was not where one of the "toys" could injure me. If not for the sirens warning of rockets, there would be injuries and death. It sucks to try to do business when religious idiots are trying to kill random people for fun.

Excuse me! Those are not toy rockets if they are used to kill innocent civilians. Absolutely nothing justifies deliberately targeting and killing innocent civilians and frankly I don't care if its a retaliation or not. If those are only "toy" rockets then why do they use them. Plus just to point out, the support for peace in Israel was high while support for blowing up the Haram has always been in the minority. I also find it extremely hippocritical that you think blowing up the Haram is wrong while in the meantime suicide bombings in Israel are perfectly fine. Another thing, there were terrorist attacks against Israeli targets, by the PFLP for example, since at least 1968:

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Terrorism/incidents.html.

Your above paragraph is the most crap I've read so far regarding the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

The rockets are a joke. They serve as nothing more than an irritant. It's not unlike when the children threw stones at heavily-armed soldiers who shot them with live ammunition and then boast that this was righteousness, as "nits make lice", a favourite expression of Israeli extremists and their supporters.

The Israelis have said from the beginning that the enemy is a civilian population living in cities and towns. They have targeted civilians from day one and this is no secret. They use human shields in what they call the "neighbour policy". After pulling the settlers out of Gaza they launched a sonic boom terror campaign. Now you expect the Palestinians to do nothing but "live like dogs or leave" as Dayan put it. Some Palestinians got the idea that only violence moderates the Israelis and unfortunately this has been proven to be true. Perhaps had the Israelis not used Oslo to double the settler population this inescapable conclusion that violence against Israelis is required would not be so.

Violence against the Israelis, including innocent civilians? I'm not saying that Israel isn't guilty in some things, however that still doesn't justify Hamas killing innocent Israelis even if Israel is. Furthermore, provide proof that Israel is solely responsible or GTFO. You seem to have no problem with innocent Israeli civilians being killed deliberately even though you complain about innocents being killed on the other side. If you don't see the problem with this then there is no point in continuing this discussion.

Suicide bombings were the only things moderating the Israelis, just as the scare of the 1973 war also was a moderating factor that got them out of Sinai. That is a fact. Suicide bombings began after 45 years of Israeli atrocities and policies that Moshe Dayan himself likened to rape. It's a shame that Israelis couldn't see sense when there weren't any bombings but they couldn't. Now they see even less sense. When the Palestinians start increasingly demanding a One State Solution the usual suspects will broadcast for all to hear that the Palestinians want to drive every last Jew into the sea to drown and this will be accepted as gospel truth in the western media.