Kyle Rittenhouse trial
@Brictoria I don’t have time for research today but you say “new” meaning when, exactly, was the drone footage obtained?
If it was obtained mid-trial, then when did the defense get their copy?
Is it possible the prosecution originally had a lower resolution copy, but didn’t receive the higher one until mid-trial?
Which person is supposed to be the defendant in the shot?
These are just the questions in my head. I do NOT expect you to answer them for me (although I won’t stop you if you want to).
But I’ll say again, anytime someone chooses to share a single frame off a video, it has to be considered inconclusive.
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Mom to an amazing young adult AS son, plus an also amazing non-AS daughter. Most likely part of the "Broader Autism Phenotype" (some traits).
Uh, no it doesn't. But if a TubeSite says so, it MUST be true!
And again, you can't just SAY "it hurteded my case!" You do have to DEMONSTRATE that the video did in fact have relevant details in the higher resolution copy that QUANTIFIABLY HARMED the defense.
It's pretty wild, that as worthless as you claim my statements are, you sure devote an awful lot of time and effort to frantically trying to discredit them. And me.
I've studied law. Formally, by trained professionals. I've defended my self in court, successfully. I do all of my own legal filings. I've won cases against government agencies. Bluster and posture to your little heart's content.
EVEN IF your claim holds water, it's still not WITHHOLDING evidence, as you so adamantly shot out of the gate. Even if you roll with it and play the "uh, duh, that's totally what I meant, and it's still bad!" doesn't change the fact that you're already eroded your own credibility. Not to mention misspelling key legal terms, it undermines your credibility regarding the specific matter - that being the interpretation of the rule of law.
AT WORST it MIGHT be evidence tampering or failure to properly disclose. I'm sure the leegul eksport knows this, but you MUST be EXACT when working with court filings. You cannot file a motion of withholding evidence, and then simply say "I mean tampering, wait, I mean disclosure!". You MUST select the right procedural claim for it to stick. You CAN make a filing for withholding anyways. And then the judge says "it wasn't withholding". And then you can make a NEW filing AFTER that for the next complaint. But that makes you look incompetent, and is a waste of time, and if you were worth your salt you'd file the CORRECT claim that would actually STICK. Anything less is stalling or whining.
I appreciate your little smear campaign. Your need to discredit me personally, speaks worlds. "HeS tHe GuY tHaT sAiD tHeSe ThInGs In ThEsE oThEr ThReAdS, DoNt LiStEnTo HiM! HeS a MeAnIe PoOpIe HeAd WhO kIcKs PuPpIeS!"
Calling me names doesn't magically make me become the things you're accusing me of.
If you're so right, you should be able to withstand the presence of dissenting voices or the scrutiny of others.
As for why two version exist of the video, these days it's common to send files electronically. There is often a size limit to the amount that can be emailed in a single file. It is not uncommon to downgrade the resolution or quality of documents, images, videos etc, in order to reduce the file sizes associated with them, and to facilitate transfer. This is so you're not trying to send massive amounts of data that might take unreasonably long time to transfer. You'll want it FAST.
The other option is physical copies, which has it's own set of complications. In either case, they asked for a copy of the video, they got a copy of the video. As soon as they got the video, if they felt it was too low of quality to be of use, they at that moment could have filed to have it struck from evidence, or asked if a higher resolution video existed, cos any lawyer worth their salt knows these things happen, and knows to ask these questions.
If the video were edited in length, had parts removed, or was altered in CONTENT in any way, then yes, tampering may apply. But if it was the EXACT video, but compressed to reduce file size, then that's completely allowable, and meets the legal bar for disclosure.
At this point, the defenSE can't simply say "but they're DIFFERENT!" - the defense must DEMONSTRATE in what way the video evidence harmed their ability to defend their client. "It made us look bad cos their copy looked better!" is NOT a valid defense. Either the video proves something, or it doesn't. You don't get to cry about how "theirs is better looking!"
And STILL NOT a matter of WITHHOLDING evidence.
Despite all the "of course lawyers LIE" rhetoric, the reality is, lawyers are generally held to extremely strict standards, and lying even a little bit generally gets you in a world of hurt. You'll note that the defense isn't claiming that it's not kyle at all, or that it wasn't kyle who did the shooting. The argument being presented is that it was necessary and justified, not that it never happened. Lawyers can interpret, but they cannot misrepresent mislead or lie. Some try, and pay dearly if they get caught.
As a lawyer, or any manner of legal defense, there is an obligation to be a zealous advocate for the interests of your client. But you can't LIE on their behalf, or knowingly allow them to lie, or instruct them to lie.
But yes. "Video was reduced in size / quality" WOWIE ZOWIE! Something typical, common, and normal happened! SuRe LoOkS sUsPiCiOuS! Cos that's what LawTube said. Well, it has the word "law" in it, so I'm sold
So, which tactic are you going to resort to now? Calling me names? Burying me in random links to websites that supposedly explain things FOR you as you look down your nose and say "figure it out"? Make more claims with no backing evidence other than "lawztoob told me so!"?
Granting some partial benefit of doubt, perhaps things work differently in australia. Even if that's the case, this is american law at work, in an american trial. If that's true, then you could fairly say that an australian trial would rule in the way you claim it would, but you still don't get to use that as a precedent for why it should apply in THIS case. You could arguably argue that it SHOULD be argued that way, but that's still completely different from the argument initially argued. And hopping around like that just comes of as moving goalposts.
Oh, and as for your complaint about me "diving into discussions" - you know that people can like, read the previous posts before commenting, right? (I'll save you the trouble of implying that I don't by pointing out the likelihood of you claiming that I don't - but you can feel free to try to sell it yourself if you like, too) Or, what, when a point pops up 18 pages in, am I supposed to go back in time and pre-emptively post earlier on the matter so I was "in on it" from an earlier time? I didn't realize there was a statute of limitations as to when you could join in to a discussion. That just sounds like policing the room to your benefit.
I will admit something utterly awful about myself though. As much fun as it is to watch small children with unshakable confidence, even when wrong, it's equally fun to watch adults with that same misplaced confidence. I know, I'm a monster.
But always with love and respect
That's about all it was good for...
I have to say, uncommondemoninator seems to know his US law better than most. It is unfortunate that personal dynamics have you two at odds. You should not be wholesale discounting all his legal points just because you don’t trust him, although obviously the post includes too many unnecessary slights towards you for that to be an easy sort. You don’t have to trust him, but one can look at information separate from who shared it and test it out. I would assume you want to grow in your international legal understanding. See it as an opportunity.
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Mom to an amazing young adult AS son, plus an also amazing non-AS daughter. Most likely part of the "Broader Autism Phenotype" (some traits).
If it was obtained mid-trial, then when did the defense get their copy?
Is it possible the prosecution originally had a lower resolution copy, but didn’t receive the higher one until mid-trial?
Which person is supposed to be the defendant in the shot?
These are just the questions in my head. I do NOT expect you to answer them for me (although I won’t stop you if you want to).
But I’ll say again, anytime someone chooses to share a single frame off a video, it has to be considered inconclusive.
Addressing a couple of points:
The prosecution provided the low resolution copy to the defence team on November 5 (mid-trial).
The prosecution stated during the jury instructions conference (which occurs after both sides have rested their cases), and provided it to the defence team on November 13.
(Above dates from motion to dismiss)
As far as I am aware, the prosecution stated they were given a copy mid-trial, but have not provided any information regarding the source or how it was supplied.
As to the defendant - He is the person beneath the large sign in the still image.
Almost every (if not every) post they have made in reply to one of mine is filled with such slights\abuse\insinuations like that, hence my stance regarding what they post, and the value of the content of their posts...
The defense is asking for a mistral without prejudice.
https://apnews.com/article/kyle-rittenh ... 546550f1dc
Looks like they're scared.
_________________
Then a hero comes along, with the strength to carry on, and you cast your fears aside, and you know you can survive.
Be the hero of your life.
Laws specify when deadly force can be used.
That's a danger if you want to use a gun for self-protection.
So, legally, sometimes, you have to take a beating.
Wisconsin self-defense laws requires ...
1. A reasonable person would use deadly force in this situation.
2. Only a necessary amount of deadly force may be used.
3. Deadly force may only be used if you're in risk of imminent death or great bodily harm.
4. If you provoke your attacker, then you must *exhaust all means of escape* before using deadly force.
https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/statut ... 939/iii/48
But even if those are the laws, a prosecutor should not say that someone being beaten up, should still take the beating and that it's normal every now and then. It's in really bad taste to say that. That's like if a would-be rape victim were on trial, for shooting her attackers, and the prosecutor said that she should have taken the beating and everyone takes it now and then... it's just hugely distasteful to say that to a jury.
Laws specify when deadly force can be used.
That's a danger if you want to use a gun for self-protection.
So, legally, sometimes, you have to take a beating.
Wisconsin self-defense laws requires ...
1. A reasonable person would use deadly force in this situation.
2. Only a necessary amount of deadly force may be used.
3. Deadly force may only be used if you're in risk of imminent death or great bodily harm.
4. If you provoke your attacker, then you must *exhaust all means of escape* before using deadly force.
https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/statut ... 939/iii/48
But even if those are the laws, a prosecutor should not say that someone being beaten up, should still take the beating and that it's normal every now and then. It's in really bad taste to say that. That's like if a would-be rape victim were on trial, for shooting her attackers, and the prosecutor said that she should have taken the beating and everyone takes it now and then... it's just hugely distasteful to say that to a jury.
What's more distasteful than faux outrage is seeing another murderer after Zimmerman walk free.
An interesting theory about the unusual resolution of the footage used by prosecution, which I just came across.
The footage used was 1920(wide) x 844(high).
HD resolution is 1920(wide) x 1080(high)
A list of common resolutions can be found at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_common_resolutions - The resolution of the footage entered into evidence does not appear anywhere on it.
The explanation that some are suggesting is that they took some television footage (from Fox News, I believe, based on comments) from a video that had been online and publicly available for a short time before the owner removed\hid it, and edited the television footage to remove the header:
Both videos appear to have come from the same original source (angle and content of image), although whether the prosecution's video was a cropped version of the video broadcast on Fox News or not isn't possible to confirm - It looks more likely to me that both the prosecution and Fox acquired copies independantly, due to both video's extending outside the borders of the other, and that the prosecution edited their copy (or were supplied an edited version) which had the "dead space"\black portion at the top cropped from the footage.
It was also somewhat unfortunate for the prosecution that when showing the video in court today that the laptop they used (theirs, containing the videos used in evidence) had a video conversion program (Handbrake) installed on it which can be used to compress videos...
• If the threat itself involves deadly force, the person defending themselves can use deadly force to counteract the threat. Rittenhouse was not being threatened with deadly force by Joseph Rosenbaum when he shot Rosenbaum 4times with an AR-15 rifle.
• If the threat involves only minor force and the person claiming self-defense uses force that could cause grievous bodily harm or death, the claim of self-defense will fail. This is the case with Kyle Rittenhouse, who used a military-style assault rifle to shoot an unarmed man to death.
Section 505 of California’s Criminal Jury Instructions outlines what a defendant must establish in order to successfully argue self-defense. A defendant will be considered to have acted in self-defense, and therefore will not be guilty of a violent crime, if they can prove:
• They reasonably believed that they (or someone else) was in imminent danger of being harmed;
• They reasonably believed that the imminent use or force was necessary to defend against that danger; and
• They only used the amount of force that was reasonably necessary to defend against that danger.
One thing I do not understand about the guy Rittenhouse shot who had a gun... The guy was pointing a pistol at Rittenhouse and Rittenhouse shot back at him... Why is this one considered unreasonable use of force in self defense
The guy has a semi-automatic pistol that shoots pistol rounds, and Rittenhouse has a semi-automatic carbine that shoots rifle rounds. Both guns shoot just as fast, and one has bullets that have more gun powder in, but just because one has high-powered rounds and the other does not, isn't the prosecution really splitting hairs over that one, when they say that one bullet firing semi-automatic gun, does not equal the same force as the other in self defense?
I'm torn at the moment, I want Rittenhouse to get the NG both because it's true and he's been so heavily slandered and for the message it would send about the law and self defense, but I also want these ADAs to burn, and a mistrial with prejudice would do more for that cause.
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Your boos mean nothing, I've seen what makes you cheer.
- Rick Sanchez
Even with an "NG" outcome, it is still possible for the prosecutors to face sanctions (with penalties up to, and including, disbarment being possible depending on the severity of what they did), and Mr Rittenhouse may have possible civil claims against Mr Binger regarding the constitutional violations during his questioning.
I'm afraid not, look up prosecutorial immunity in the US, they have an absolute shield from civil liability for their actions in office, even if they knowingly put an innocent person in prison or even had them executed, even if it can be proven that they did so maliciously. They can be sanctioned by the court, but not sued privately, it's worse than the qualified immunity our police get, and that's bad enough.
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Your boos mean nothing, I've seen what makes you cheer.
- Rick Sanchez
Last edited by Dox47 on 18 Nov 2021, 12:27 am, edited 1 time in total.