Emergence of a Deadly Coronavirus
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cyberdad wrote:
jimmy m wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
The CIA Informed Trump that a pandemic was likely as far back as November 2019 so you can include him in the group of naysayers
Source?
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/intelli ... d=70031273
https://www.forbes.com/sites/mattperez/ ... cc2047a1eb
There's also NBC and a few other "reliable" sources but you get the drift
This seems like another story built on anonymous sources.
Quote:
The Defense Department provided a statement from Col. R. Shane Day, Director of the NCMI.
"As a matter of practice the National Center for Medical Intelligence does not comment publicly on specific intelligence matters. However, in the interest of transparency during this current public health crisis, we can confirm that media reporting about the existence/release of a National Center for Medical Intelligence Coronavirus-related product/assessment in November of 2019 is not correct. No such NCMI product exists,"
"As a matter of practice the National Center for Medical Intelligence does not comment publicly on specific intelligence matters. However, in the interest of transparency during this current public health crisis, we can confirm that media reporting about the existence/release of a National Center for Medical Intelligence Coronavirus-related product/assessment in November of 2019 is not correct. No such NCMI product exists,"
_________________
Author of Practical Preparations for a Coronavirus Pandemic.
A very unique plan. As Dr. Paul Thompson wrote, "This is the very best paper on the virus I have ever seen."
Fnord wrote:
blooiejagwa wrote:
8 deaths is nothing. Even here in Ontario we have had more. I guess they lied?
In the days when Josef Stalin was Commissar of Munitions, a meeting was held of the highest ranking Commissars, and the principal matter for discussion was the famine then prevalent in the Ukraine. One official arose and made a speech about this tragedy -- the tragedy of having millions of people dying of hunger. He began to enumerate death figures … Josef Stalin interrupted him to say: "If only one man dies of hunger, that is a tragedy. If millions die, that is only statistics."8 deaths is closer to a tragedy than to a statistic.
Oh my cousin's wife who I have yet to meet is from Ukraine. Apparently her family has to grow their own food as its very tough because of Russia. However their health is great since all they ever eat is freshly picked food.
We should all start neighbourhood veggie n fruit plots like that in case of the fallout from this lockdown.
In the UK lots of city people have allotments for the mental benefits of maintaining an allotments despite the difficulties. There are tons of books devoted to the subject.
I don't know if it is something u have to initially pay for or rent. If it is a joint allotment like for several families it is very financially viable I am sure. Esp long-term.
My sons PSW Victor (i mentioned his name because it's a cool one) said he grows a lot of his own vegetables.
Asparagus and tomatoes are among the easiest and cheapest according to him. Funny that asparagus is considered a fancy food like anchovies yet is cheap to grow.
_________________
Take defeat as an urge to greater effort.
-Napoleon Hill
jimmy m wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
jimmy m wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
The CIA Informed Trump that a pandemic was likely as far back as November 2019 so you can include him in the group of naysayers
Source?
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/intelli ... d=70031273
https://www.forbes.com/sites/mattperez/ ... cc2047a1eb
There's also NBC and a few other "reliable" sources but you get the drift
This seems like another story built on anonymous sources.
Quote:
The Defense Department provided a statement from Col. R. Shane Day, Director of the NCMI.
"As a matter of practice the National Center for Medical Intelligence does not comment publicly on specific intelligence matters. However, in the interest of transparency during this current public health crisis, we can confirm that media reporting about the existence/release of a National Center for Medical Intelligence Coronavirus-related product/assessment in November of 2019 is not correct. No such NCMI product exists,"
"As a matter of practice the National Center for Medical Intelligence does not comment publicly on specific intelligence matters. However, in the interest of transparency during this current public health crisis, we can confirm that media reporting about the existence/release of a National Center for Medical Intelligence Coronavirus-related product/assessment in November of 2019 is not correct. No such NCMI product exists,"

News media is very shady. They do things like this to increase support for conflicts all over the world because they get paid by arms dealer types and others who have vested $$ interests.
Like Indian media which is among the least credible in the world and most inciting/complicit to hate crimes and genocides in the past as well as now.
That's like with Michael Jackson I saw a documentary that showed how they paid 100s of thousands to anyone who would agree to claim abuse and people with souls refused. And the major source of much of the claims was actually a man who was involved in a pedophile ring and FBI agent traced it back to him
_________________
Take defeat as an urge to greater effort.
-Napoleon Hill
EzraS wrote:
Fnord wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Pepe wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Things are going to get so bad that many people who didn't die from the virus will start wishing they had.
Thank you, Mr Sunshine.More like a foregone conclusion.
Let us insert a little reality. Only about 1 or 2 percent of the individuals that become infected with this coronavirus die. Most people recover. It is not an end of the world scenario. Many people get infected but the symptoms are so minimal they don't even realize they are infected.
_________________
Author of Practical Preparations for a Coronavirus Pandemic.
A very unique plan. As Dr. Paul Thompson wrote, "This is the very best paper on the virus I have ever seen."
jimmy m wrote:
Let us insert a little reality. Only about 1 or 2 percent of the individuals that become infected with this coronavirus die. Most people recover. It is not an end of the world scenario. Many people get infected but the symptoms are so minimal they don't even realize they are infected.
Let's try that again...1,864,629 Total Confirmed Infections.
115,286 Total Confirmed Deaths.
That's (100 x (115,286 / 1,864,629)) = 6.183% Mortality Rate
Data Source: Johns Hopkins University CoViD-19 Webpage.
EzraS wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
Gas is $1.15 in south Missouri .
They say it will keep dropping.
They say it will keep dropping.
That probably means the oil companies are going to go out of business like many wanted.
Considering that some of the US oil producing areas are in a negative oil price range, many wells are shutting down. The oil companies involved actually have to pay someone to take/store their oil because their storage tanks are almost all full. My good friend’s oil wells in Kansas have had their pumps turned off until the oil price rises to a profitable point again. Her wells become profitable at around $50/barrel, so it may be years before the pumps are turned on again.
Search “negative oil prices” to see specific articles on this issue.
Most people with mild illness or people who are asymptomatic don’t get tested. The mortality rate is certainly lower than 6%.
Most of the time, only people with serious illness, famous persons, healthcare people, and others deemed essential get tested.
The US testing rate is still less than 1%.
My ex’s cousin in Little Rock just went to the hospital.She has a fever,coughing and shortness of breath.She’s elderly,already on oxygen,recovering from a broken hip, and has MS.
I’m expecting a sad phone call any day.
She never went out, but did have a physical therapist that came over.We think that’s how she caught it.
_________________
I am the dust that dances in the light. - Rumi
jimmy m wrote:
ANOTHER POTENTIAL THERAPEUTIC
In the frantic fight to get an effective antiviral into the hands of a terrified world, there's a new kid on the block. This one is called N-hydroxycytidine and it's rather interesting. It is called β-D-N4-hydroxycytidine, but N-hydroxycytidine or NHC are fine too. So is EIDD-1931. NHC has some intriguing properties that might make it, at least for now, a very promising weapon against coronavirus. These include:
* Potency
* Little cellular toxicity
* Known mechanism of action
* Ease of synthesis
* Oral administration with good bioavailability (the drug gets into the blood)
A group from UNC Chapel Hill, Vanderbilt, Emory, and the CDC Division of Viral Diseases published a paper in the journal Science Translational Medicine that reports the antiviral properties of NHC against a number of coronaviruses; the drug appears to be capable of handling all of them.
PROPERTIES OF NHC
1. Antiviral activity
NHC inhibits the replication of MERS, the "original" SARS, and SARS-CoV-2 (aka "novel coronavirus") in cultured cells. The drug inhibits half of the viral replication (the EC50) at low concentrations. The lower the concentration, the more potent the drug is. Here are some EC50 values from the paper:
MERS (in human lung epithelial cells) 0.15 µM (micromolar). This is a potent inhibition.
SARS-CoV-2 ("coronavirus") 0.08 µM, 0.09 µM. There are two numbers because the virus was measured in two similar ways. NHC is a potent (perhaps, very potent – it's a subjective term) inhibitor of SARS-CoV-2.
While it is not possible to accurately rank potential antiviral drugs by simply comparing EC50 values from different labs that may use different cell cultures, these numbers can serve as an indicator of relative potency.
This table incorporates the EC50 values (in micromolar (µM)) of NHC and the other experimental drugs I have written about (1). The lower the number the more potent the drug.
* NHC, 0.08, 0.09
* Remdesivir - 0.1, 0.77
* Favipiravir - 62
* Hydroxychloroquine - 0.77
* Chloroquine - 0.77, 1.1, 5.42
From this data, one can conclude that 1) some of these numbers are nuts; 2) NHC appears to be about as potent as remdesivir and significantly more so than the others.
2. Selectivity
I'm betting that the EC50 of bleach would be a whole lot lower than any experimental drug. But I'm going to assume that you know that it's not a great idea to drink it. So here's a little thought experiment. A company is screening thousands of compounds to look for anything with antiviral properties. Here's (roughly) what the data might look like:
COMPOUND # --- EC50 (µM)
124--- >10
125 --- 3.3
126 --- 0.09
127 --- 0.00001
So, when the biologist sees the data for #127 he/she is going to go absolutely bats##t and call his chemistry counterpart with one hand (to find out what this SUPERINHIBITOR is) while picking out his favorite color BMW with the other. OK, it is extremely unlikely that bleach is going to be part of any chemistry library of test compounds, but let's say #127 is something that is highly toxic. This is why the CC50 (cytotoxic concentration) – the concentration of the compound that kills 50% of the cells is critical. A toxic compound – one that will kill cells – will also show up as a potent antiviral because viruses will only replicate in living, healthy cells. So, a toxin will show up as a false positive – it is killing the cells, not the virus.
Now, let's add the CC50 and selectivity index (SI). Things look very different.
COMPOUND # --- EC50 (µM) --- CC50 (µM) --- SI
124 --- >10 --- >100 --- >10
125 --- 3.3 --- 9.5 --- 2.8
126 --- 0.09 --- >10 --- >111
127 --- 0.00001 --- 0.00001 --- 1
When these results are taken together the following conclusions can be reached:
#124 is not toxic but does not inhibit the virus. Flush it.
#125 is a weak inhibitor and has cellular toxicity at nearly the same concentration as the EC50. Flush it.
#126 is a potent inhibitor with no cellular toxicity at a concentration that is more than 111-times the EC50. #126 is an interesting compound.
#127 is bleach (or something similarly toxic). Although it stops viral replication at an absurdly low EC50 this is an artifact. #127 is killing the assay cells. Flush it. Twice.
3. "Decorating" the molecule
NHC may be a great drug, but it's a lousy pill (doesn't work when taken orally). Although the authors do not provide details about how lousy it is, this can be implied (emphasis mine):
Here, we report the broad-spectrum antiviral activity of NHC and its orally bioavailable prodrug EIDD-2801, against SARS-CoV, MERS-CoV, and the current pandemic strain SARS-CoV-2 in primary human airway epithelial cells
EIDD-2801 sounds a lot different than NHC but they are actually quite similar
4. Efficacy in mice
If a drug can prevent deaths in rodent models of infection, and also reduce the amount of virus formed, it is a fairly good bet that it will show some effect in humans. Animal models of infection are usually pretty decent compared to those of other diseases. (Keep in mind that remdesivir was tested in monkeys - a much better model.)
There are pages of data covering four mouse experiments. Here is a brief (and incomplete) summary.
Five parameters of efficacy were used to measure whether the drug inhibited the virus:
* Loss of body weight (a sign of illness in the mouse)
* Pulmonary function
* Lung hemorrhage
* The amount of virus in the lungs
* Lung damage
In every case, EIDD-2801 worked better when it was administered prior to infection. But there also seemed to be a 12-hour window following infection when the drug worked about as well.

Figure 3. The impact of the timing of the first dose of drug on lung damage in mice after 5 days. The gray group received vehicle only and had the worst (highest) score ~0.6. The orange group (the animals dosed two hours before infection) has the least lung damage, but the dark blue group, which received drug 12 hours following infection had a similar amount of damage. The yellow group, which was dosed 24 hours post-infection sustained significantly more damage, while the light blue group (dosed 48 hours post-infection) suffered as much damage as non-treated mice. Image: Science Translation Medicine
This effect was also seen in the other parameters – good prophylactic protection and a fairly strict post-infection interval (12 hours) of time of protection, after which time the drug became less and less effective.
This timeline makes sense. It suggests there is a 12-hour interval during which time the virus has been acquired and is (presumably) starting to enter cells but not yet replicating at full tilt. At least in mice, this is the window when the drug will be most effective. This is consistent with the profile of other antiviral drugs, such as Tamiflu and acyclovir; the earlier they are administered the better they work. After a certain period of time, they don't.
SUMMARY
This drug seems to have a lot going for it, much of which is beyond the scope of this article. Like remdesivir it is a nucleotide analog – the most common type of antiviral drug. Unlike remdesivir, it is orally active, so it can be administered as a pill. Its potency seems to be in the same range. It seems to be non-toxic and also inhibits other coronaviruses. While remdesivir has been shown to protective in monkeys (a better model) NHC does so in mice.
Source: Another COVID Contender, N-Hydroxycytidine Looks Pretty Good. Especially If You're A Mouse
In the frantic fight to get an effective antiviral into the hands of a terrified world, there's a new kid on the block. This one is called N-hydroxycytidine and it's rather interesting. It is called β-D-N4-hydroxycytidine, but N-hydroxycytidine or NHC are fine too. So is EIDD-1931. NHC has some intriguing properties that might make it, at least for now, a very promising weapon against coronavirus. These include:
* Potency
* Little cellular toxicity
* Known mechanism of action
* Ease of synthesis
* Oral administration with good bioavailability (the drug gets into the blood)
A group from UNC Chapel Hill, Vanderbilt, Emory, and the CDC Division of Viral Diseases published a paper in the journal Science Translational Medicine that reports the antiviral properties of NHC against a number of coronaviruses; the drug appears to be capable of handling all of them.
PROPERTIES OF NHC
1. Antiviral activity
NHC inhibits the replication of MERS, the "original" SARS, and SARS-CoV-2 (aka "novel coronavirus") in cultured cells. The drug inhibits half of the viral replication (the EC50) at low concentrations. The lower the concentration, the more potent the drug is. Here are some EC50 values from the paper:
MERS (in human lung epithelial cells) 0.15 µM (micromolar). This is a potent inhibition.
SARS-CoV-2 ("coronavirus") 0.08 µM, 0.09 µM. There are two numbers because the virus was measured in two similar ways. NHC is a potent (perhaps, very potent – it's a subjective term) inhibitor of SARS-CoV-2.
While it is not possible to accurately rank potential antiviral drugs by simply comparing EC50 values from different labs that may use different cell cultures, these numbers can serve as an indicator of relative potency.
This table incorporates the EC50 values (in micromolar (µM)) of NHC and the other experimental drugs I have written about (1). The lower the number the more potent the drug.
* NHC, 0.08, 0.09
* Remdesivir - 0.1, 0.77
* Favipiravir - 62
* Hydroxychloroquine - 0.77
* Chloroquine - 0.77, 1.1, 5.42
From this data, one can conclude that 1) some of these numbers are nuts; 2) NHC appears to be about as potent as remdesivir and significantly more so than the others.
2. Selectivity
I'm betting that the EC50 of bleach would be a whole lot lower than any experimental drug. But I'm going to assume that you know that it's not a great idea to drink it. So here's a little thought experiment. A company is screening thousands of compounds to look for anything with antiviral properties. Here's (roughly) what the data might look like:
COMPOUND # --- EC50 (µM)
124--- >10
125 --- 3.3
126 --- 0.09
127 --- 0.00001
So, when the biologist sees the data for #127 he/she is going to go absolutely bats##t and call his chemistry counterpart with one hand (to find out what this SUPERINHIBITOR is) while picking out his favorite color BMW with the other. OK, it is extremely unlikely that bleach is going to be part of any chemistry library of test compounds, but let's say #127 is something that is highly toxic. This is why the CC50 (cytotoxic concentration) – the concentration of the compound that kills 50% of the cells is critical. A toxic compound – one that will kill cells – will also show up as a potent antiviral because viruses will only replicate in living, healthy cells. So, a toxin will show up as a false positive – it is killing the cells, not the virus.
Now, let's add the CC50 and selectivity index (SI). Things look very different.
COMPOUND # --- EC50 (µM) --- CC50 (µM) --- SI
124 --- >10 --- >100 --- >10
125 --- 3.3 --- 9.5 --- 2.8
126 --- 0.09 --- >10 --- >111
127 --- 0.00001 --- 0.00001 --- 1
When these results are taken together the following conclusions can be reached:
#124 is not toxic but does not inhibit the virus. Flush it.
#125 is a weak inhibitor and has cellular toxicity at nearly the same concentration as the EC50. Flush it.
#126 is a potent inhibitor with no cellular toxicity at a concentration that is more than 111-times the EC50. #126 is an interesting compound.
#127 is bleach (or something similarly toxic). Although it stops viral replication at an absurdly low EC50 this is an artifact. #127 is killing the assay cells. Flush it. Twice.
3. "Decorating" the molecule
NHC may be a great drug, but it's a lousy pill (doesn't work when taken orally). Although the authors do not provide details about how lousy it is, this can be implied (emphasis mine):
Here, we report the broad-spectrum antiviral activity of NHC and its orally bioavailable prodrug EIDD-2801, against SARS-CoV, MERS-CoV, and the current pandemic strain SARS-CoV-2 in primary human airway epithelial cells
EIDD-2801 sounds a lot different than NHC but they are actually quite similar
4. Efficacy in mice
If a drug can prevent deaths in rodent models of infection, and also reduce the amount of virus formed, it is a fairly good bet that it will show some effect in humans. Animal models of infection are usually pretty decent compared to those of other diseases. (Keep in mind that remdesivir was tested in monkeys - a much better model.)
There are pages of data covering four mouse experiments. Here is a brief (and incomplete) summary.
Five parameters of efficacy were used to measure whether the drug inhibited the virus:
* Loss of body weight (a sign of illness in the mouse)
* Pulmonary function
* Lung hemorrhage
* The amount of virus in the lungs
* Lung damage
In every case, EIDD-2801 worked better when it was administered prior to infection. But there also seemed to be a 12-hour window following infection when the drug worked about as well.

Figure 3. The impact of the timing of the first dose of drug on lung damage in mice after 5 days. The gray group received vehicle only and had the worst (highest) score ~0.6. The orange group (the animals dosed two hours before infection) has the least lung damage, but the dark blue group, which received drug 12 hours following infection had a similar amount of damage. The yellow group, which was dosed 24 hours post-infection sustained significantly more damage, while the light blue group (dosed 48 hours post-infection) suffered as much damage as non-treated mice. Image: Science Translation Medicine
This effect was also seen in the other parameters – good prophylactic protection and a fairly strict post-infection interval (12 hours) of time of protection, after which time the drug became less and less effective.
This timeline makes sense. It suggests there is a 12-hour interval during which time the virus has been acquired and is (presumably) starting to enter cells but not yet replicating at full tilt. At least in mice, this is the window when the drug will be most effective. This is consistent with the profile of other antiviral drugs, such as Tamiflu and acyclovir; the earlier they are administered the better they work. After a certain period of time, they don't.
SUMMARY
This drug seems to have a lot going for it, much of which is beyond the scope of this article. Like remdesivir it is a nucleotide analog – the most common type of antiviral drug. Unlike remdesivir, it is orally active, so it can be administered as a pill. Its potency seems to be in the same range. It seems to be non-toxic and also inhibits other coronaviruses. While remdesivir has been shown to protective in monkeys (a better model) NHC does so in mice.
Source: Another COVID Contender, N-Hydroxycytidine Looks Pretty Good. Especially If You're A Mouse
In designing effective drugs, researchers will typically start with a parent molecule that has some activity to what they are targeting for. The researchers will make various derivatives by attaching functional groups to the parent molecule to see what the effect of that functional group is to the activity. Sometimes multiple functional groups are attached to see if they enhance or inhibit the activity of the molecule. This can be tedious to due and often takes a long time to pay off with a new effective drug. Sometimes adding a simple functional group may render an effective drug ineffective because it may inhibit other cellular functions. You do not want to cure the patient by killing them first.
Many drugs are not water soluble in their raw forms, making them incompatible for oral dosage. Since the body is mostly water, the drug might be converted to a water soluble salt form by reacting the drug with either an acid or a base. That is why you see many oral drugs with a dot HCl at the end of their chemical name, as they used hydrochloric acid to make the salt of the drug. Unfortunately, the salt forms do not always have the same effectiveness as the pure form. So, it limits how one can administer the drug to the patient if one wants it to be the most effective form. I wish I had a quick fix for that but it is not so easy to find. This whole process costs money to do, which adds to the cost of the drug if it hits the market.
kraftiekortie wrote:
Most people with mild illness or people who are asymptomatic don’t get tested. The mortality rate is certainly lower than 6%.
Most of the time, only people with serious illness, famous persons, healthcare people, and others deemed essential get tested.
The US testing rate is still less than 1%.
Most of the time, only people with serious illness, famous persons, healthcare people, and others deemed essential get tested.
The US testing rate is still less than 1%.
I hope and believe the death rate is quite low as well. The problem is that death isn't the only catastrophe in this virus.
The sheer number of people needing prolonged hospital care is also a problem. The system can't handle that many people being ill at one time because of staffing shortages, equipment shortages, and people's inability to pay their medical debt upon discharge. That's what's collapsing the economy. In many respects it's those people who need to stay in hospital who are making frontline doctors and nurses sick, because they carry it home to their families and the cycle repeats. Of course we mourn the dead and those are tragedies, but even those who are hospitalised and recover present a serious risk to the world's health and the world's economy. Not to mention the fact many of these people will never truly recover. They'll continue to have compromised lung function the rest of their lives.

_________________
I never give you my number, I only give you my situation.
Beatles
jimmy m wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
jimmy m wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
The CIA Informed Trump that a pandemic was likely as far back as November 2019 so you can include him in the group of naysayers
Source?
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/intelli ... d=70031273
https://www.forbes.com/sites/mattperez/ ... cc2047a1eb
There's also NBC and a few other "reliable" sources but you get the drift
This seems like another story built on anonymous sources.
That's how the news works now. Nothing has to be verified. But it is not fake by any means, no siree Bob Anonymous.
Misslizard wrote:
My ex’s cousin in Little Rock just went to the hospital.She has a fever,coughing and shortness of breath.She’s elderly,already on oxygen,recovering from a broken hip, and has MS.
I’m expecting a sad phone call any day.
She never went out, but did have a physical therapist that came over.We think that’s how she caught it.
I’m expecting a sad phone call any day.

She never went out, but did have a physical therapist that came over.We think that’s how she caught it.
Sending prayers that she recovers in good time. Try not to fear the worst. I have a fever, cough and shortness of breath but it's not COVID and I'm taking antibiotics. I hope they can treat her quickly and with the care she deserves.
Sorry I didn't see this earlier, ML.
_________________
I never give you my number, I only give you my situation.
Beatles