Page 34 of 45 [ 709 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 ... 45  Next

ironpony
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 3 Nov 2015
Age: 40
Posts: 5,590
Location: canada

18 Nov 2021, 12:20 am

I also have a really hard time buying the motivations of the men who charged towards Rittenhouse. The prosecution tries to sell the motivation that they were sacrificing themselves to be good Samaritans risking their lives to stop a threat to the community.

But these guys have pasts that make me think... One of them has a criminal record history of sexually assaulting children. One of them for burglary crimes, and the other has a record of rape and domestic violence. These don't seem like the kind of guys that are motivated to be out that night to be good Samaritans out to risk their lives, to to protect the community, that the prosecution makes them out to be motivation wise.



Pepe
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 11 Jun 2013
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 26,635
Location: Australia

18 Nov 2021, 12:28 am

DW_a_mom wrote:
Brictoria wrote:
Pepe wrote:
uncommondenominator wrote:
Brictoria wrote:
The fact a lower resolution version existed (or was created) would not alter the fact that the higher resolution version would still be required to be turned over (confirmed by at least a dozen lawtube members - at least 2 former prosecutors included).


Uh, no it doesn't. But if a TubeSite says so, it MUST be true!

And again, you can't just SAY "it hurteded my case!" You do have to DEMONSTRATE that the video did in fact have relevant details in the higher resolution copy that QUANTIFIABLY HARMED the defense.

It's pretty wild, that as worthless as you claim my statements are, you sure devote an awful lot of time and effort to frantically trying to discredit them. And me.

I've studied law. Formally, by trained professionals. I've defended my self in court, successfully. I do all of my own legal filings. I've won cases against government agencies. Bluster and posture to your little heart's content.

EVEN IF your claim holds water, it's still not WITHHOLDING evidence, as you so adamantly shot out of the gate. Even if you roll with it and play the "uh, duh, that's totally what I meant, and it's still bad!" doesn't change the fact that you're already eroded your own credibility. Not to mention misspelling key legal terms, it undermines your credibility regarding the specific matter - that being the interpretation of the rule of law.

AT WORST it MIGHT be evidence tampering or failure to properly disclose. I'm sure the leegul eksport knows this, but you MUST be EXACT when working with court filings. You cannot file a motion of withholding evidence, and then simply say "I mean tampering, wait, I mean disclosure!". You MUST select the right procedural claim for it to stick. You CAN make a filing for withholding anyways. And then the judge says "it wasn't withholding". And then you can make a NEW filing AFTER that for the next complaint. But that makes you look incompetent, and is a waste of time, and if you were worth your salt you'd file the CORRECT claim that would actually STICK. Anything less is stalling or whining.

I appreciate your little smear campaign. Your need to discredit me personally, speaks worlds. "HeS tHe GuY tHaT sAiD tHeSe ThInGs In ThEsE oThEr ThReAdS, DoNt LiStEnTo HiM! HeS a MeAnIe PoOpIe HeAd WhO kIcKs PuPpIeS!"

Calling me names doesn't magically make me become the things you're accusing me of.

If you're so right, you should be able to withstand the presence of dissenting voices or the scrutiny of others.

As for why two version exist of the video, these days it's common to send files electronically. There is often a size limit to the amount that can be emailed in a single file. It is not uncommon to downgrade the resolution or quality of documents, images, videos etc, in order to reduce the file sizes associated with them, and to facilitate transfer. This is so you're not trying to send massive amounts of data that might take unreasonably long time to transfer. You'll want it FAST.

The other option is physical copies, which has it's own set of complications. In either case, they asked for a copy of the video, they got a copy of the video. As soon as they got the video, if they felt it was too low of quality to be of use, they at that moment could have filed to have it struck from evidence, or asked if a higher resolution video existed, cos any lawyer worth their salt knows these things happen, and knows to ask these questions.

If the video were edited in length, had parts removed, or was altered in CONTENT in any way, then yes, tampering may apply. But if it was the EXACT video, but compressed to reduce file size, then that's completely allowable, and meets the legal bar for disclosure.

At this point, the defenSE can't simply say "but they're DIFFERENT!" - the defense must DEMONSTRATE in what way the video evidence harmed their ability to defend their client. "It made us look bad cos their copy looked better!" is NOT a valid defense. Either the video proves something, or it doesn't. You don't get to cry about how "theirs is better looking!"

And STILL NOT a matter of WITHHOLDING evidence.

Despite all the "of course lawyers LIE" rhetoric, the reality is, lawyers are generally held to extremely strict standards, and lying even a little bit generally gets you in a world of hurt. You'll note that the defense isn't claiming that it's not kyle at all, or that it wasn't kyle who did the shooting. The argument being presented is that it was necessary and justified, not that it never happened. Lawyers can interpret, but they cannot misrepresent mislead or lie. Some try, and pay dearly if they get caught.

As a lawyer, or any manner of legal defense, there is an obligation to be a zealous advocate for the interests of your client. But you can't LIE on their behalf, or knowingly allow them to lie, or instruct them to lie.

But yes. "Video was reduced in size / quality" WOWIE ZOWIE! Something typical, common, and normal happened! SuRe LoOkS sUsPiCiOuS! Cos that's what LawTube said. Well, it has the word "law" in it, so I'm sold :roll:

So, which tactic are you going to resort to now? Calling me names? Burying me in random links to websites that supposedly explain things FOR you as you look down your nose and say "figure it out"? Make more claims with no backing evidence other than "lawztoob told me so!"?

Granting some partial benefit of doubt, perhaps things work differently in australia. Even if that's the case, this is american law at work, in an american trial. If that's true, then you could fairly say that an australian trial would rule in the way you claim it would, but you still don't get to use that as a precedent for why it should apply in THIS case. You could arguably argue that it SHOULD be argued that way, but that's still completely different from the argument initially argued. And hopping around like that just comes of as moving goalposts.

Oh, and as for your complaint about me "diving into discussions" - you know that people can like, read the previous posts before commenting, right? (I'll save you the trouble of implying that I don't by pointing out the likelihood of you claiming that I don't - but you can feel free to try to sell it yourself if you like, too) Or, what, when a point pops up 18 pages in, am I supposed to go back in time and pre-emptively post earlier on the matter so I was "in on it" from an earlier time? I didn't realize there was a statute of limitations as to when you could join in to a discussion. That just sounds like policing the room to your benefit.

I will admit something utterly awful about myself though. As much fun as it is to watch small children with unshakable confidence, even when wrong, it's equally fun to watch adults with that same misplaced confidence. I know, I'm a monster.

But always with love and respect :heart:


Off Topic
Well, I will be using this post as a benchmark for acceptable sarcasm. :mrgreen:

That's about all it was good for...


I have to say, uncommondemoninator seems to know his US law better than most. It is unfortunate that personal dynamics have you two at odds. You should not be wholesale discounting all his legal points just because you don’t trust him, although obviously the post includes too many unnecessary slights towards you for that to be an easy sort. You don’t have to trust him, but one can look at information separate from who shared it and test it out. I would assume you want to grow in your international legal understanding. See it as an opportunity.


Brictoria doesn't need you to tell him that. :wink:
There is a greater dynamic here that you aren't aware of. 8)



Brictoria
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Aug 2013
Age: 48
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,998
Location: Melbourne, Australia

18 Nov 2021, 12:31 am

ironpony wrote:
I also have a really hard time buying the motivations of the men who charged towards Rittenhouse. The prosecution tries to sell the motivation that they were sacrificing themselves to be good Samaritans risking their lives to stop a threat to the community.

But these guys have pasts that make me think... One of them has a criminal record history of sexually assaulting children. One of them for burglary crimes, and the other has a record of rape and domestic violence. These don't seem like the kind of guys that are motivated to be out that night to be good Samaritans out to risk their lives, to to protect the community, that the prosecution makes them out to be motivation wise.


There's also the detail that where the group attacked him, he was running towards the police and was only a couple of blocks away from them (as can be seen on video), having made no move to fire at anyone following the first person he shot - They could have easily kept pace with him to ensure he went to the police, or inform the police there of what had occurred - The skateboarder could have been at the police line and letting them know long before he arrived there...



Pepe
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 11 Jun 2013
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 26,635
Location: Australia

18 Nov 2021, 12:31 am

Brictoria wrote:
DW_a_mom wrote:
although obviously the post includes too many unnecessary slights towards you for that to be an easy sort.

Almost every (if not every) post they have made in reply to one of mine is filled with such slights\abuse\insinuations like that, hence my stance regarding what they post, and the value of the content of their posts...


This is the "Dynamic" I was referring to. :mrgreen:

Uncommonnonsense has a history of attacking me also, btw. 8)



ironpony
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 3 Nov 2015
Age: 40
Posts: 5,590
Location: canada

18 Nov 2021, 12:34 am

Brictoria wrote:
ironpony wrote:
I also have a really hard time buying the motivations of the men who charged towards Rittenhouse. The prosecution tries to sell the motivation that they were sacrificing themselves to be good Samaritans risking their lives to stop a threat to the community.

But these guys have pasts that make me think... One of them has a criminal record history of sexually assaulting children. One of them for burglary crimes, and the other has a record of rape and domestic violence. These don't seem like the kind of guys that are motivated to be out that night to be good Samaritans out to risk their lives, to to protect the community, that the prosecution makes them out to be motivation wise.


There's also the detail that where the group attacked him, he was running towards the police and was only a couple of blocks away from them (as can be seen on video), having made no move to fire at anyone following the first person he shot - They could have easily kept pace with him to ensure he went to the police, or inform the police there of what had occurred - The skateboarder could have been at the police line and letting them know long before he arrived there...


That's true, he had a skateboard and could have skated to the police first. Why did he choose not to go the police first and try to take on a suspected active shooter by himself...



cyberdad
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Age: 57
Gender: Male
Posts: 36,036

18 Nov 2021, 12:39 am

2 days and the jury can't come to a unanimous decision. There must be at least a few jurors who have a conscience.



TwisterUprocker
Pileated woodpecker
Pileated woodpecker

Joined: 24 Nov 2019
Gender: Male
Posts: 179

18 Nov 2021, 12:46 am

ironpony wrote:
But these guys have pasts that make me think... One of them has a criminal record history of sexually assaulting children. One of them for burglary crimes, and the other has a record of rape and domestic violence.


Only the first one is true. Grosskreutz was suspected but not convicted of burglary, Huber was an abuser but not a rapist.



cyberdad
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Age: 57
Gender: Male
Posts: 36,036

18 Nov 2021, 12:47 am

ironpony wrote:
That's true, he had a skateboard and could have skated to the police first. Why did he choose not to go the police first and try to take on a suspected active shooter by himself...


It was thought that a number of the passengers on pne of the planes that crashed into the NT Twin towers on 9-11-2001 rushed the terrorists despite knowing they would not survive. It's called heroism.

I can't speak for the mental state of Rosenbaum but Huber and Grosskreutz sincerely believed they were saving lives by disarming killer Kyle and putting their bodies on the line. Mr Huber was protecting his girlfriend from crazy Kyle.

I believe the families of both men should litigate agains the right wing press and some MAGA politicians who have insinuated that both men were somehow evil, mentally unstable or dredging their past in order to find dirt on them.

The right wing press did the same to Mr Nathan Phillips (a native American elder who was bullied and racially vilified by group of white students from Covington Catholic college). They spent an inordinate amount of time digging dirt on Phillips in order to discedit him, dragging his past which had nothing to do with the behaviour of Covington teens,



Pepe
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 11 Jun 2013
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 26,635
Location: Australia

18 Nov 2021, 12:49 am

ironpony wrote:
I wouldn't call Rittenhouse a murderer. They were attacking him so if he overresponded, I would say he is more of a manslaughterer at best, but that's just me.


He was a stupid kid who provoked the wrong people.

I see what he did as self-defence because:
-He was running away from his attacker.
-When he fell and couldn't escape, he used his rifle.
These "little facts" have escaped cyberdad, unfortunately. 8)

He may have overreacted, but he was being accosted by a number of men.
Wasn't he being threatened with being killed?
I am not sure if the second victim was also chasing Rittenhouse at the time or simply responded after the first person was shot.
Perhaps someone can inform me, me being the lazy biatch I am. :mrgreen:



Last edited by Cornflake on 18 Nov 2021, 8:01 am, edited 1 time in total.: Redacted a personal attack

Pepe
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 11 Jun 2013
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 26,635
Location: Australia

18 Nov 2021, 12:53 am

cyberdad wrote:
2 days and the jury can't come to a unanimous decision. There must be at least a few jurors who have a conscience.


Always the objective non-biased one. <irony> :mrgreen:



ironpony
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 3 Nov 2015
Age: 40
Posts: 5,590
Location: canada

18 Nov 2021, 12:53 am

Well I tried responding to one of the posts, but it seems my post has been deleted or disappeared. I could post it again but do not want to get in trouble, if that's what happened.



Last edited by ironpony on 18 Nov 2021, 12:56 am, edited 2 times in total.

cyberdad
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Age: 57
Gender: Male
Posts: 36,036

18 Nov 2021, 12:55 am

ironpony wrote:
Well I tried responding to one of the posts, but it seems my post has been deleted or disappeared. I could post it again but do not want to get in trouble, if that's what happened.


Wasn't me?



ironpony
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 3 Nov 2015
Age: 40
Posts: 5,590
Location: canada

18 Nov 2021, 12:56 am

Oh okay. Maybe it just didn't post or something.

But what I said was, I do not buy that these guys who were either convicted or suspected of past felonies, are the types of guys who are out to protect the community. Take the child sexual assailant for example. Why would a person think it's perfectly morally okay to sexually assault children, but think it's wrong for someone in public to have a visible gun, and feel he is morally obligated to protect the community? It makes no sense.



cyberdad
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Age: 57
Gender: Male
Posts: 36,036

18 Nov 2021, 1:00 am

ironpony wrote:
I do not buy that these guys who were either convicted or suspected of past felonies, are the types of guys who are out to protect the community.


Huber was definitely protecting his girlfriend
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/08/28/us/k ... index.html



Pepe
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 11 Jun 2013
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 26,635
Location: Australia

18 Nov 2021, 1:04 am

cyberdad wrote:
ironpony wrote:
That's true, he had a skateboard and could have skated to the police first. Why did he choose not to go the police first and try to take on a suspected active shooter by himself...


It was thought that a number of the passengers on pne of the planes that crashed into the NT Twin towers on 9-11-2001 rushed the terrorists despite knowing they would not survive. It's called heroism.


Rittenhouse was running away.
He was hunted down and fell to the ground.
Please connect the dots. 8)

cyberdad wrote:
I can't speak for the mental state of Rosenbaum but Huber and Grosskreutz sincerely believed they were saving lives by disarming killer Kyle and putting their bodies on the line. Mr Huber was protecting his girlfriend from crazy Kyle.

I believe the families of both men should litigate agains the right wing press and some MAGA politicians who have insinuated that both men were somehow evil, mentally unstable or dredging their past in order to find dirt on them.

The right wing press did the same to Mr Nathan Phillips (a native American elder who was bullied and racially vilified by group of white students from Covington Catholic college). They spent an inordinate amount of time digging dirt on Phillips in order to discedit him, dragging his past which had nothing to do with the behaviour of Covington teens,


A total misrepresentation. 8)
Nicholas Sandmann successfully sued The Washington Post, btw
Quote:
The Washington Post settles lawsuit with Nick Sandmann after viral March for Life controversy.
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/07/24/medi ... index.html


Please control your hyperpartisanship, Mister. :mrgreen:



ironpony
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 3 Nov 2015
Age: 40
Posts: 5,590
Location: canada

18 Nov 2021, 1:05 am

cyberdad wrote:
ironpony wrote:
I do not buy that these guys who were either convicted or suspected of past felonies, are the types of guys who are out to protect the community.


Huber was definitely protecting his girlfriend
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/08/28/us/k ... index.html


Oh okay, but was his gf called as a witness in the trial, or did they take her deposition?