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Pepe
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17 Apr 2020, 2:06 am

NEWS FLASH!

Death statistics in china jump by around 30% in one day.

Hmmmm. :mrgreen:



goldfish21
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17 Apr 2020, 2:16 am

Pepe wrote:
NEWS FLASH!

Death statistics in china jump by around 30% in one day.

Hmmmm. :mrgreen:


Someone accidentally let a death get reported over there?

Saw some stuff online saying China is incinerating bodies before they’re even tallied up as C-19 deaths. A YouTube vid claimed they’re incinerating 30 bodies/day in each of many portable incinerators with many more of the machines on order.. which could be true or could be BS. I tend to believe a lot more people have died, and will die, of this in China than they’ll ever tell us.


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EzraS
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17 Apr 2020, 3:12 am

Pepe wrote:
NEWS FLASH!

Death statistics in china jump by around 30% in one day.

Hmmmm. :mrgreen:


The normal daily mortality rate in the US is between 7,400-7,800 per day. China has over 3 times the population of the US, so a ballpark estimate of the daily mortality rate there should be around 23,000 per day. That's a lot to keep track of under normal circumstances.



goldfish21
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17 Apr 2020, 3:17 am

EzraS wrote:
Pepe wrote:
NEWS FLASH!

Death statistics in china jump by around 30% in one day.

Hmmmm. :mrgreen:


The normal daily mortality rate in the US is between 7,400-7,800 per day. China has over 3 times the population of the US, so a ballpark estimate of the daily mortality rate there should be around 23,000 per day. That's a lot to keep track of under normal circumstances.


How so? They also have 3x as many people to do the keeping track. Plus their people excel at math.. sooo :nerdy:


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17 Apr 2020, 3:21 am

Magna wrote:
domineekee wrote:
firemonkey wrote:
Quote:
A Chicago hospital treating severe Covid-19 patients with Gilead Sciences’ antiviral medicine remdesivir in a closely watched clinical trial is seeing rapid recoveries in fever and respiratory symptoms, with nearly all patients discharged in less than a week, STAT has learned.



https://www.statnews.com/2020/04/16/ear ... -150595041


https://www.biospace.com/article/gilead-shutters-covid-19-trial-in-china-stocks-drop-3-percent-/

Gilead Suspends a Remdesivir COVID-19 Trial in China
Published: Apr 15, 2020
By Mark Terry
Clinical Trial Stop

Alert for whichever way the wind might be blowing, many investors have jumped on the news that Gilead Sciences suspended one of its clinical trials of remdesivir for COVID-19 in China. The company is running at least five clinical trials for its experimental antiviral drug remdesivir against COVID-19. Readouts for at least one or two of them will occur this month. Meanwhile, more than 1,800 patients have been treated using the drug on an individual compassionate use basis so far. They recently published data in the New England Journal of Medicine on 53 of those patients suggesting promising results.

But company shares dropped 3% this morning after the company indicated it had suspended one of the trials in China. Gilead said that the Phase III trial for mild to moderate patients had been ended because of lack of patients to enroll.

According to a note by RBC analyst Brian Abrahams, the company is continuing studies in severely affected patients, and pulling data from the halted trial. He wrote, “Key upcoming readouts for the drug remain the Gilead-sponsored studies in severe (late April, though lack of a control arm may limit interpretability) and moderate (May) COVID-19 patients. NIAID’s remdesivir data may also come as early as May.”

Abrahams interprets all this to suggest limited efficacy of the drug, writing, “We continue to believe that while remdesivir showed a promising signal of activity in the recent open label compassionate use published data, the fact that no data has been revealed from the truncated severe study in China—the only randomized study thus far—despite today’s update also indicated it had enrolled a reasonably robust number of patients (n=237), suggests any benefits observed were likely inconclusive and maintains our view that the likelihood of remdesivir demonstrating substantial activity remains at best 50/50.”

The limited data on the 53 patients receiving the drug on compassionate use basis had no controls and, as a result, made it difficult to draw any definitive conclusions. The study of the 53 patients in the U.S., Europe and Canada who required respiratory support showed that about two-thirds benefited from the drug. About half of the patients received mechanical ventilation and four were on a heart-lung by-pass machine. Eight patients were excluded from analysis, one because of a dosing error and seven because there was no information available on how they did.

All the patients received remdesivir for up to 10 days. Over 18 days, 68% showed improvement, with 17 of the 30 patients on ventilators able to be taken off the devices. Almost half of patients were discharged, while 13% died. Mortality was highest in patients receiving ventilation, with 18% dying.

Gilead was quick to point out that the study has limitations. It is running two Phase III trials of remdesivir, the SIMPLE trials, in countries with high prevalence of COVID-19. Data from the SIMPLE trial in patients with severe COVID-19 are expected sometime this month. Data from the SIMPLE trial in patients with moderate disease are expected in May. It is also supporting several trials led by other groups, including two in Hubei Province, China. A trial in China in patients with severe disease was terminated early because of low enrollment. The data is still pending. A China study in mild-to-moderate disease is ongoing. A global trial led by the U.S. National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (NIAID) continues to enroll patients. Data is expected in May. Other studies based on a master protocol by the World Health Organization have also started patient enrollment worldwide.

Researchers doubt this recent study data is anything more than suggestive, if that.

“The data from this paper are almost uninterpretable,” Stephen Evans, a professor of pharmacoepidemiology at the London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine, told Bloomberg. “There is some evidence suggesting efficacy, but we simply do not know what would have happened to these patients had they not been given the drug.”

Remdesivir is a broad-spectrum antiviral originally developed to treat Ebola, but was ineffective. In preclinical work conducted at the University of North Carolina and Vanderbilt University before the pandemic, it had shown promise against a wide range of viruses, including coronaviruses. In Ebola it had been found to be safe but ineffective. But the data acquired in those trials helped move it to more advanced trials in COVID-19.

Another analyst, Hartaj Singh of Oppenheimer, is a bit less pessimistic, but he too expressed concern that the compassionate use study had no controls. He wrote, “We view these results as purely directional.” The trials discussed are “highly unorthodox in how quickly they are being conducted, and how many corners are being cut in the interests of getting results quickly,” reported Yahoo Finance. Singh added, the trial “was provided in the U.S., the EU, Canada, and Japan, likely with varying clinical protocols,” depending on which medical institution or system was involved.

Of course, the analysts have the job of evaluating the drug’s effectiveness on how it might affect the company’s stock price and giving investors recommendations. Gilead already manufactured 1.5 million vials of the drug that it was treating patients with it for free.

Alan Carr, an analyst with Needham, indicated that Gilead is only now “evaluating options for pricing strategy for subsequent batches if the drug is found to be helpful for COVID-19.”

Even if the drug is only slightly helpful, there will likely be huge demand. But in the midst of a global pandemic, it’s unlikely to become any sort of a profit center for Gilead.


Sounds like a heck of a better option than hooking up so many people to ventilators the very act of which, regardless of illness or reason, gives them about a 50/50 chance of survival. When people hear "We'll need to use a ventilator" many think of it as just shy of a death sentence.

Yeah, sure I want a boxfull of the stuff already but as far as I understand it's a long way off from being in production, whatever the outcome of the trails. I read that the time line for manufacturing the drug has been bought down from 1 year to 6 months and the results of the phase 3 trails won't be in till the end of April ( not sure that any of the trails have a plecebo group). Then phase 4 trails can start. So, early days, unorthodox trails and figures that are hard to translate. By the time the drug becomes available we will either have been in lock down for months and months or very likely, already been infected.

In the short term, I'd pin my hopes on the blood plasma treatment. Recovered patients are being asked to donate blood, maybe a cash incentive to donate would be in order.



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17 Apr 2020, 3:38 am

Pepe wrote:
NEWS FLASH!

Death statistics in china jump by around 30% in one day.

Hmmmm. :mrgreen:

Such spikes occured in statistics for France and New York before.
Hot data is never very reliable, it gets retrospectively corrected all the time.


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ImagineDragons
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17 Apr 2020, 5:19 am

This could be a game changer..

Breaking News

The COVID-19 virus can travel as far as 13 feet from patients, a new study found, which would make the U.S. government order for people to stay six feet away from each other essentially obsolete.

According to AFP, a team of researchers at the Academy of Military Medical Sciences in Beijing examined surface and air samples at a hospital in Wuhan, China, the city where the virus first cropped up in November.

What they found was the virus could travel 13 feet from an infected patient. The samples were taken in a general ward housing patients with the virus and an intensive care unit..



EzraS
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17 Apr 2020, 5:43 am

goldfish21 wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Pepe wrote:
NEWS FLASH!

Death statistics in china jump by around 30% in one day.

Hmmmm. :mrgreen:


The normal daily mortality rate in the US is between 7,400-7,800 per day. China has over 3 times the population of the US, so a ballpark estimate of the daily mortality rate there should be around 23,000 per day. That's a lot to keep track of under normal circumstances.


How so? They also have 3x as many people to do the keeping track. Plus their people excel at math.. sooo :nerdy:


Based all the news reports and posts here, they're not doing a very good job, so that was another dumb question. I'm going to surmise you are asking dumb questions to be annoying. Think I'll ignore you for a while. See how hard you try to get me to reply to you.



The_Face_of_Boo
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17 Apr 2020, 6:36 am

Image

Umm... this 21% death isn't scary? Why people focus on the 2-5% death rate (dead count divided by TOTAL number of cases, including active and closed cases), while, the above death rate should be really the main concern?

Am I missing something?



EzraS
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17 Apr 2020, 6:47 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Image

Umm... this 21% death isn't scary? Why people focus on the 2-5% death rate (dead count divided by TOTAL number of cases, including active and closed cases), while, the above death rate should be really the main concern?

Am I missing something?


It starts out with 96% mild and 4% serious or critical. Of that 4% 79% recover and 21% die.

Image

Those percentages have pretty much been a constant for the least couple of months



Last edited by EzraS on 17 Apr 2020, 6:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

kraftiekortie
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17 Apr 2020, 6:51 am

Only people with at least moderate symptoms get tested in most nations.

The mildly ill and the asymptomatic do not get tested, by and large. They are not part of the statistics.

The mortality rate has been placed at about 2-3% by most sources. I suspect, ultimately, that it will be found to be less than 1%. It’s already less than 1% for people under 50 years of age.



The_Face_of_Boo
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17 Apr 2020, 8:45 am

EzraS wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Image

Umm... this 21% death isn't scary? Why people focus on the 2-5% death rate (dead count divided by TOTAL number of cases, including active and closed cases), while, the above death rate should be really the main concern?

Am I missing something?


It starts out with 96% mild and 4% serious or critical. Of that 4% 79% recover and 21% die.

Image

Those percentages have pretty much been a constant for the least couple of months



Nowhere they're saying that the closed cases are part of the 4% critical only, no; those who had mild condition yet survived or dead would also be counted in the closed cases.

The 4% critical are part of the ACTIVE cases, meaning people who are still sick.

Only 32% of the total cases had an outcome (surviving or dead) so far..



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17 Apr 2020, 8:50 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
Only people with at least moderate symptoms get tested in most nations.

The mildly ill and the asymptomatic do not get tested, by and large. They are not part of the statistics.

The mortality rate has been placed at about 2-3% by most sources. I suspect, ultimately, that it will be found to be less than 1%. It’s already less than 1% for people under 50 years of age.


But how are they calculating exactly to get that 2-3%?

In worldometers it's around 6.7% if you divide all deaths over total, among the closed cases it's much worse.

The disease lasts long time, just because there are a lot of people who are asymptomatic or mild RIGHT NOW, doesn't mean that all of them will remain so- there had been many cases of those who started mild and then ended up badly.



Last edited by The_Face_of_Boo on 17 Apr 2020, 8:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

kraftiekortie
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17 Apr 2020, 8:51 am

One has to remember that, in most countries in the world, including the US, less than 1% of the population of that country got tested.

Even in a hotbed state like New York, less than 5% of the population got tested.

I didn’t come up with the 2-3%. The CDC and WHO did.

There have been about 2.1 million CONFIRMED cases.

Most countries only test the seriously ill and those with risk factors. Even some first responders haven’t been tested. People with mild symptoms are only beginning to be tested in hotbed areas like NYC.



Last edited by kraftiekortie on 17 Apr 2020, 8:58 am, edited 2 times in total.

kraftiekortie
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17 Apr 2020, 8:52 am

The vast majority of mild cases have been resolved in 2 weeks. Total recovery. Including myself.



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17 Apr 2020, 9:03 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
One has to remember that, in most countries in the world, including the US, less than 1% of the population of that country got tested.

Even in a hotbed state like New York, less than 5% of the population got tested.

I didn’t come up with the 2-3%. The CDC and WHO did.

There have been about 2.1 million CONFIRMED cases.

Most countries only test the seriously ill and those with risk factors. Even some first responders haven’t been tested. People with mild symptoms are only beginning to be tested in hotbed areas like NYC.


The WHO are clowns btw.

How did the CDC/WHO came out of this number? Looking at the OFFICIAL numbers this doesn't add up.