Pew: Romney Leads By 4 In Post-Debate Survey

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Vatnos
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17 Oct 2012, 8:31 pm

Inuyasha wrote:
GoonSquad wrote:
^^^ Yeah, I'm pretty sure I heard Romney say he wanted to get that number up to 47%.... You know how much he likes to fire people. :wink:


You do realize that Romney gives more of his income to charity (talking about percentage) than Biden and Obama combined, hell there are quite a few people that make significantly less money than Biden and still give more money (in raw dollar amount) than Biden.

The real person that doesn't care about the poor is Joe Biden.


Charity shouldn't exist anyway. If the economy worked we wouldn't need it. Charity has become a red herring that enables any terrible organization or individual to claim sainthood, "because they donated more in charity than you did". What a useless metric to measure someone's righteousness.

Someone who dedicates their life toward changing the economic system to not f**k the poor has done far more, in my mind, than someone who's worked their hardest to prevent those reforms, and donated to cover his ass.



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17 Oct 2012, 11:52 pm

Vatnos wrote:
Charity shouldn't exist anyway. If the economy worked we wouldn't need it. Charity has become a red herring that enables any terrible organization or individual to claim sainthood, "because they donated more in charity than you did". What a useless metric to measure someone's righteousness. Someone who dedicates their life toward changing the economic system to not f**k the poor has done far more, in my mind, than someone who's worked their hardest to prevent those reforms, and donated to cover his ass.

thank you for that :idea:



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18 Oct 2012, 12:53 am

Inuyasha wrote:
GoonSquad wrote:
^^^ Yeah, I'm pretty sure I heard Romney say he wanted to get that number up to 47%.... You know how much he likes to fire people. :wink:


You do realize that Romney gives more of his income to charity (talking about percentage) than Biden and Obama combined, hell there are quite a few people that make significantly less money than Biden and still give more money (in raw dollar amount) than Biden.

The real person that doesn't care about the poor is Joe Biden.


From what I've heard, most of those "charitable" donations from Romney are to the Mormon church, not to charities specifically targeting the poor.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



Inuyasha
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18 Oct 2012, 1:42 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
GoonSquad wrote:
^^^ Yeah, I'm pretty sure I heard Romney say he wanted to get that number up to 47%.... You know how much he likes to fire people. :wink:


You do realize that Romney gives more of his income to charity (talking about percentage) than Biden and Obama combined, hell there are quite a few people that make significantly less money than Biden and still give more money (in raw dollar amount) than Biden.

The real person that doesn't care about the poor is Joe Biden.


From what I've heard, most of those "charitable" donations from Romney are to the Mormon church, not to charities specifically targeting the poor.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


It isn't simply his money, it is his time. If you had watched the Republican Convention, you would realize that you and a few others not only look foolish, but you look like complete well you get the idea.

Former Medford residents Ted and Pat Oparowski, members of Romney’s Mormon church, shared a story about how Romney helped their teenage son, David, write his own will during the last days of his battle with cancer. Knowing Romney had gone to law school, David asked him for assistance, the Oparowskis said.

“The next time Mitt went to the hospital, he was equipped with his yellow legal pad and pen. Together, they made David’s will. That is a task that no child should ever have to do. But it gave David peace of mind,” Pat Oparowski said to a rapt audience.

Pam Finlayson, whose family also attended the Mormon church in Belmont when Romney was a leader there, talked about his dedication to her family during a difficult period many years ago. Finlayson said that Romney prayed over her daughter, Kate, after she was born prematurely.

“I will never forget that when he looked down tenderly at my daughter, his eyes filled with tears, and he reached out gently and stroked her tiny back,’’ Finlayson said. “I could tell immediately that he didn’t just see a tangle of plastic and tubes; he saw our beautiful little girl.’’

Kate Finlayson suffered from hydrocephalus — “water on the brain” — and died in 2010 at age 26.

On Thanksgiving Day in 1984, when Kate Finlayson was still hospitalized as an infant, Romney showed up, unannounced, at the family’s home with a dinner he had prepared himself.

“I opened my door to find Mitt and his boys, arms loaded with a Thanksgiving feast,” Pam Finlayson said. “When I called to thank Ann, she sweetly confessed it had been Mitt’s idea, that most of the cooking and chopping had been done by him.”

http://www.bostonglobe.com/news/politic ... story.html

Robert Gay's 14-year-old daughter, Melissa, had gone missing after taking a train into New York City, Gay told Romney. Gay said he and his wife, Lynette, had contacted the police and were desperately trying to track down Melissa.

She might have become lost in an underworld rave party scene after attending a party on Randall's Island on the city's East River. Rave parties were typically all-night affairs punctuated by the use of the drug Ecstasy, which can induce euphoria or hallucinations. The Gays feared their daughter might be unable to contact home.

Romney stepped in and committed Bain's resources to help with the search.

"I said let's close the firm, let's close the company – we were in Boston – and let's all of us fly down to New York and try to find her," Romney recalled recently when ask about the incident at a rally in Ohio this month. "So we closed the business, we went home and packed our things."

The search ultimately led to a home in New Jersey where Melissa was found safe. Soon she was back with her family.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/1 ... 55317.html

So are you still going to carry on about him being some heartless monster?



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18 Oct 2012, 2:03 am

Inuyasha wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
GoonSquad wrote:
^^^ Yeah, I'm pretty sure I heard Romney say he wanted to get that number up to 47%.... You know how much he likes to fire people. :wink:


You do realize that Romney gives more of his income to charity (talking about percentage) than Biden and Obama combined, hell there are quite a few people that make significantly less money than Biden and still give more money (in raw dollar amount) than Biden.

The real person that doesn't care about the poor is Joe Biden.


From what I've heard, most of those "charitable" donations from Romney are to the Mormon church, not to charities specifically targeting the poor.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


It isn't simply his money, it is his time. If you had watched the Republican Convention, you would realize that you and a few others not only look foolish, but you look like complete well you get the idea.

Former Medford residents Ted and Pat Oparowski, members of Romney’s Mormon church, shared a story about how Romney helped their teenage son, David, write his own will during the last days of his battle with cancer. Knowing Romney had gone to law school, David asked him for assistance, the Oparowskis said.

“The next time Mitt went to the hospital, he was equipped with his yellow legal pad and pen. Together, they made David’s will. That is a task that no child should ever have to do. But it gave David peace of mind,” Pat Oparowski said to a rapt audience.

Pam Finlayson, whose family also attended the Mormon church in Belmont when Romney was a leader there, talked about his dedication to her family during a difficult period many years ago. Finlayson said that Romney prayed over her daughter, Kate, after she was born prematurely.

“I will never forget that when he looked down tenderly at my daughter, his eyes filled with tears, and he reached out gently and stroked her tiny back,’’ Finlayson said. “I could tell immediately that he didn’t just see a tangle of plastic and tubes; he saw our beautiful little girl.’’

Kate Finlayson suffered from hydrocephalus — “water on the brain” — and died in 2010 at age 26.

On Thanksgiving Day in 1984, when Kate Finlayson was still hospitalized as an infant, Romney showed up, unannounced, at the family’s home with a dinner he had prepared himself.

“I opened my door to find Mitt and his boys, arms loaded with a Thanksgiving feast,” Pam Finlayson said. “When I called to thank Ann, she sweetly confessed it had been Mitt’s idea, that most of the cooking and chopping had been done by him.”

http://www.bostonglobe.com/news/politic ... story.html

Robert Gay's 14-year-old daughter, Melissa, had gone missing after taking a train into New York City, Gay told Romney. Gay said he and his wife, Lynette, had contacted the police and were desperately trying to track down Melissa.

She might have become lost in an underworld rave party scene after attending a party on Randall's Island on the city's East River. Rave parties were typically all-night affairs punctuated by the use of the drug Ecstasy, which can induce euphoria or hallucinations. The Gays feared their daughter might be unable to contact home.

Romney stepped in and committed Bain's resources to help with the search.

"I said let's close the firm, let's close the company – we were in Boston – and let's all of us fly down to New York and try to find her," Romney recalled recently when ask about the incident at a rally in Ohio this month. "So we closed the business, we went home and packed our things."

The search ultimately led to a home in New Jersey where Melissa was found safe. Soon she was back with her family.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/1 ... 55317.html

So are you still going to carry on about him being some heartless monster?


Well, the guy who did all those good works should have been in that secret fund raiser, instead of that schmuck using his name and face who denigrated half the country, and promised to give the super wealthy tax cuts.
Yes, I know they're the same person. It seems Mitt only has a heart when it comes to people who he knows, and who attends his church.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



Inuyasha
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18 Oct 2012, 2:06 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
Well, the guy who did all those good works should have been in that secret fund raiser, instead of that schmuck using his name and face who denigrated half the country, and promised to give the super wealthy tax cuts.
Yes, I know they're the same person. It seems Mitt only has a heart when it comes to people who he knows, and who attends his church.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Why should Romney apologize for telling the truth, quite frankly I think a lot of what he said was accurate...



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18 Oct 2012, 2:17 am

Inuyasha wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Well, the guy who did all those good works should have been in that secret fund raiser, instead of that schmuck using his name and face who denigrated half the country, and promised to give the super wealthy tax cuts.
Yes, I know they're the same person. It seems Mitt only has a heart when it comes to people who he knows, and who attends his church.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Why should Romney apologize for telling the truth, quite frankly I think a lot of what he said was accurate...


He said he wasn't going to represent the poorest and most vulnerable Americans. You actually agree with that? Both you and Romney need a heart transplant.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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18 Oct 2012, 8:15 am

You know, it's not even really about having a heart.... I mean even if we ignore all the moral and ethical reasons to help poor folks, smart economics demand that we help the poor.

Business, currently high on the economic crack of Asian near-slave labor, has forgotten that a consumer driven economy won't work if consumers don't have the money to buy things.

Right now we have record corporate profits, huge income disparity between the rich and poor and puny growth. The "job creators" need to face facts--unless consumers get some money to consume the system will fail.

There are two ways to get money to consumers. Give them good, decent paying jobs so they can spend more. This will mean less profits for business. Or continue to pay low wages and cut benefits and let government subsidies to the working poor make up the difference and prop up consumption. This is what we've done for decades now. This is what has caused the deficit to explode. This is an option we can no longer exercise unless we raise more revenue with higher taxes. Since the poor don't have any money, being poor, the rich will have to foot the bill....

One way or another, we need to get money back into the hands of consumers.

I'll say it again:

The two most efficient ways to do this are higher wages or increased government subsidies to the poor. Since deficit spending is rapidly becoming no longer an option, it means business/the rich are going to have to accept lower profits or higher taxes to get the economy growing again. That's the bottom line.

One way or another, all that money that's pooled at the top has to get flushed back into the economy or we're doomed.

Right now, the real problem is, the rich are too damn rich, and too damn greedy, and too damn dumb to reinvest in the markets (and consumers) that give them their money.

The rich don't need a heart transplant--they need a brain transplant.


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No man is free who is not master of himself.~Epictetus


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18 Oct 2012, 11:42 am

GoonSquad wrote:
You know, it's not even really about having a heart.... I mean even if we ignore all the moral and ethical reasons to help poor folks, smart economics demand that we help the poor.

Business, currently high on the economic crack of Asian near-slave labor, has forgotten that a consumer driven economy won't work if consumers don't have the money to buy things.

Right now we have record corporate profits, huge income disparity between the rich and poor and puny growth. The "job creators" need to face facts--unless consumers get some money to consume the system will fail.

There are two ways to get money to consumers. Give them good, decent paying jobs so they can spend more. This will mean less profits for business. Or continue to pay low wages and cut benefits and let government subsidies to the working poor make up the difference and prop up consumption. This is what we've done for decades now. This is what has caused the deficit to explode. This is an option we can no longer exercise unless we raise more revenue with higher taxes. Since the poor don't have any money, being poor, the rich will have to foot the bill....

One way or another, we need to get money back into the hands of consumers.

I'll say it again:

The two most efficient ways to do this are higher wages or increased government subsidies to the poor. Since deficit spending is rapidly becoming no longer an option, it means business/the rich are going to have to accept lower profits or higher taxes to get the economy growing again. That's the bottom line.

One way or another, all that money that's pooled at the top has to get flushed back into the economy or we're doomed.

Right now, the real problem is, the rich are too damn rich, and too damn greedy, and too damn dumb to reinvest in the markets (and consumers) that give them their money.

The rich don't need a heart transplant--they need a brain transplant.


You're preaching to the choir, brother Goon!

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



Inuyasha
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18 Oct 2012, 3:11 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Well, the guy who did all those good works should have been in that secret fund raiser, instead of that schmuck using his name and face who denigrated half the country, and promised to give the super wealthy tax cuts.
Yes, I know they're the same person. It seems Mitt only has a heart when it comes to people who he knows, and who attends his church.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Why should Romney apologize for telling the truth, quite frankly I think a lot of what he said was accurate...


He said he wasn't going to represent the poorest and most vulnerable Americans. You actually agree with that? Both you and Romney need a heart transplant.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


That's not what he said, he said 47% of people wouldn't vote for him no matter what.

There are some people whom posted here that are perfect examples of how what Romney said was entirely accurate Kraichgauer, I'm sorry you find the truth to be offensive.



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18 Oct 2012, 4:45 pm

Inuyasha wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Well, the guy who did all those good works should have been in that secret fund raiser, instead of that schmuck using his name and face who denigrated half the country, and promised to give the super wealthy tax cuts.
Yes, I know they're the same person. It seems Mitt only has a heart when it comes to people who he knows, and who attends his church.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Why should Romney apologize for telling the truth, quite frankly I think a lot of what he said was accurate...


He said he wasn't going to represent the poorest and most vulnerable Americans. You actually agree with that? Both you and Romney need a heart transplant.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


That's not what he said, he said 47% of people wouldn't vote for him no matter what.

There are some people whom posted here that are perfect examples of how what Romney said was entirely accurate Kraichgauer, I'm sorry you find the truth to be offensive.


And he said he wasn't going to represent them.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



marshall
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18 Oct 2012, 5:36 pm

GoonSquad wrote:
You know, it's not even really about having a heart.... I mean even if we ignore all the moral and ethical reasons to help poor folks, smart economics demand that we help the poor.

Business, currently high on the economic crack of Asian near-slave labor, has forgotten that a consumer driven economy won't work if consumers don't have the money to buy things.

Right now we have record corporate profits, huge income disparity between the rich and poor and puny growth. The "job creators" need to face facts--unless consumers get some money to consume the system will fail.

There are two ways to get money to consumers. Give them good, decent paying jobs so they can spend more. This will mean less profits for business. Or continue to pay low wages and cut benefits and let government subsidies to the working poor make up the difference and prop up consumption. This is what we've done for decades now. This is what has caused the deficit to explode. This is an option we can no longer exercise unless we raise more revenue with higher taxes. Since the poor don't have any money, being poor, the rich will have to foot the bill....

One way or another, we need to get money back into the hands of consumers.

I'll say it again:

The two most efficient ways to do this are higher wages or increased government subsidies to the poor. Since deficit spending is rapidly becoming no longer an option, it means business/the rich are going to have to accept lower profits or higher taxes to get the economy growing again. That's the bottom line.

One way or another, all that money that's pooled at the top has to get flushed back into the economy or we're doomed.

Right now, the real problem is, the rich are too damn rich, and too damn greedy, and too damn dumb to reinvest in the markets (and consumers) that give them their money.

The rich don't need a heart transplant--they need a brain transplant.


It only makes sense that advanced economies become inherently fragile when they're too damn efficient for their own good. The supply for basic living necessities comprises such a small fraction of the economy. A ton of jobs are predicated on discretionary spending, i.e. luxury spending. It only makes sense that luxury spending will be highly sensitive to income loss.



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18 Oct 2012, 6:24 pm

marshall wrote:
It only makes sense that advanced economies become inherently fragile when they're too damn efficient for their own good. The supply for basic living necessities comprises such a small fraction of the economy. A ton of jobs are predicated on discretionary spending, i.e. luxury spending. It only makes sense that luxury spending will be highly sensitive to income loss.


The economy is a train wreck due to Government forcing banks to make loans to people that couldn't afford them. The economy isn't improving due to an explosion of new regulations and threatened tax hikes.

The poor should be helped, but the problem is that things like welfare doesn't help the poor, it just makes them dependent on Government handouts.

Despite what people have been brainwashed into believing, Conservatives actually do care about the poor. However, Conservatives have reached the conclusion that government welfare programs actually hurt people in poverty by making them dependent on government. Before people start saying that is ridiculous or something of that nature, Conservatives actually can make a very strong case to back up their conclusion.

Local charities often have more face-to-face interactions with people they are trying to help, Government just sends you a check in the mail. I would say local charities are better in the fact that you have volunteers donating their time and money to help people in poverty and work to help them get themselves out of poverty. Government welfare just gets people to start feeling entitled to get those monthly checks, instead of trying to get out of poverty on their own.



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18 Oct 2012, 6:54 pm

marshall wrote:

It only makes sense that advanced economies become inherently fragile when they're too damn efficient for their own good. The supply for basic living necessities comprises such a small fraction of the economy. A ton of jobs are predicated on discretionary spending, i.e. luxury spending. It only makes sense that luxury spending will be highly sensitive to income loss.


Would you prefer an economy where only the barest essentials for survival are available and nothing else?

ruveyn



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18 Oct 2012, 7:56 pm

ruveyn wrote:
marshall wrote:

It only makes sense that advanced economies become inherently fragile when they're too damn efficient for their own good. The supply for basic living necessities comprises such a small fraction of the economy. A ton of jobs are predicated on discretionary spending, i.e. luxury spending. It only makes sense that luxury spending will be highly sensitive to income loss.


Would you prefer an economy where only the barest essentials for survival are available and nothing else?

ruveyn

The problem is in a capitalist economy people have to get paid enough to afford the basic essentials regardless of others luxury consumption habits.



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18 Oct 2012, 8:08 pm

Inuyasha wrote:
marshall wrote:
It only makes sense that advanced economies become inherently fragile when they're too damn efficient for their own good. The supply for basic living necessities comprises such a small fraction of the economy. A ton of jobs are predicated on discretionary spending, i.e. luxury spending. It only makes sense that luxury spending will be highly sensitive to income loss.


The economy is a train wreck due to Government forcing banks to make loans to people that couldn't afford them. The economy isn't improving due to an explosion of new regulations and threatened tax hikes.

The poor should be helped, but the problem is that things like welfare doesn't help the poor, it just makes them dependent on Government handouts.

Despite what people have been brainwashed into believing, Conservatives actually do care about the poor. However, Conservatives have reached the conclusion that government welfare programs actually hurt people in poverty by making them dependent on government. Before people start saying that is ridiculous or something of that nature, Conservatives actually can make a very strong case to back up their conclusion.

Stop being such a tool. I'm tired of hearing nothing but talking points from you.

Quote:
Local charities often have more face-to-face interactions with people they are trying to help, Government just sends you a check in the mail. I would say local charities are better in the fact that you have volunteers donating their time and money to help people in poverty and work to help them get themselves out of poverty. Government welfare just gets people to start feeling entitled to get those monthly checks, instead of trying to get out of poverty on their own.


If some people can't find work through the "free market" it is societies job to give them work to do and allow them enough to live. Forcing people to be charity cases is an insult to human dignity. Despite what the right-wing tools tell you, we don't live in a time of real scarcity. If we did I wouldn't have to recycle pages and pages of unwanted junk advertisements that get thrown in my mailbox. The real problem is this societies f****d up priorities.