ferguson grand jury reaches its decision

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Syd
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25 Nov 2014, 1:46 am

auntblabby wrote:

Dillogic wrote:

I've yet to see someone show me any actual statistics pointing to widespread police abuse. From all I've read, the main abuse the people living there comes from other people living there rather than the police.

that is because the white powers that be do not care to collect such statistics

Statistics can also be manipulated. Investigations have found that the number of justified homicides reported by police are not the same as the numbers reported by the FBI.

http://www.npr.org/2014/08/21/342228794 ... ts-are-few

auntblabby
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25 Nov 2014, 1:56 am

Humanaut wrote:

Killing someone in self-defense is justified under given circumstances according to most moral doctrines. "Thou shalt not kill" is no exception. It is not a categorical imperative, but a conditional one.

in the original tongues the bible says "one will avoid unnecessary killing or murder." you cannot convince me that Darren Wilson had no choice but to empty his gun into Michael Brown. if wilson had kneecapped brown he surely would not be doing any more moving anytime soon. brutal but true. if wilson had used his taser the perp would not be doing anything but shake and spasm and scream. I AM saying that Wilson was at best incompetent and more likely deliberately callous based on the highly disrespectful language ["GET THE **** OFF THE STREET!" with which he first addressed mr. brown. that is MURDER in my book.

Dillogic
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25 Nov 2014, 2:06 am

auntblabby wrote:

Humanaut wrote:

Shooting someone in the leg is impossible on a moving target. You aim center of mass and fire until the threat stops -- it's the only way to stop the threat with a high chance of hitting (missed round = potential danger to innocents).

Tazers don't always work. There's been cases where the officer was killed/wounded after it failed to stop the threat.

Wilson didn't say that by his account. http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/ ... ilson.html

auntblabby
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25 Nov 2014, 2:09 am

Syd wrote:

auntblabby wrote:

Dillogic wrote:

that is because the white powers that be do not care to collect such statistics

Statistics can also be manipulated. Investigations have found that the number of justified homicides reported by police are not the same as the numbers reported by the FBI.
http://www.npr.org/2014/08/21/342228794 ... ts-are-few

thank you Syd

-
"KLINGER: Yeah, the primary data collection mechanism regarding crime and justice issues in the United States is the FBI's uniform crime reports. And they have a program to do, among other things, count the number of homicides by the police - called justifiable homicides by the FBI. And for whatever reason, many police agencies don't report to the FBI when their officers have killed somebody, or they do report and somehow it doesn't get recorded by the FBI. We're not quite sure what's going on."

either way, the powers that be don't consider it important enough to get on the stick and fix this.

Humanaut
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25 Nov 2014, 2:14 am

auntblabby wrote:

...you cannot convince me that Darren Wilson had no choice but to empty his gun into Michael Brown.

Your conviction in itself is not important to me.

auntblabby
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25 Nov 2014, 2:18 am

Dillogic wrote:

Shooting someone in the leg is impossible on a moving target. You aim center of mass and fire until the threat stops -- it's the only way to stop the threat with a high chance of hitting (missed round = potential danger to innocents). Tazers don't always work. There's been cases where the officer was killed/wounded after it failed to stop the threat. Wilson didn't say that by his account. http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/ ... ilson.html

if you want to believe he quite politely told brown, "hey guys, why don't you walk on the sidewalk?" :lmao:

then that is your prerogative. as for me, I do not believe anything coming out of Wilson's mouth. he is like the bulk of other bullyboy cops by whom I have been intimidated. when it happens to you, then you will understand why I feel the way I do. and just because something does not ALWAYS work does not mean one should never use them in the first place [tasers]. that is a slippery-slope.

Dillogic
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25 Nov 2014, 2:28 am

auntblabby wrote:

if you want to believe he quite politely told brown, "hey guys, why don't you walk on the sidewalk?" :lmao:

Yeah, and you'd trust the words of a street criminal that just robbed a store? I know which one I'd go with. Yeah, I've been bullied and intimidated too, though by peers -- I'm not letting them cloud my judgement of everyone. That's admitting bias.

However, no one knows what Wilson said. The accomplice is a known liar and he retracted his statements anyway, so you have nothing there. You may as well be making up words to suit your agenda.

Yes. In this case, a tazer wasn't used as the actual criminals initiated the fight. Wilson was on the back foot from the beginning. He was fighting for his life the entire time.

The only thing he could have done was stay in the car and not try and apprehend Brown, who just assaulted a police officer (which is backed up by witness accounts). That's not the job of the police though, to back down from criminals.

(And naturally, the street criminals have burnt down and looted several businesses, in the name of someone that their peers said was guilty. Funny that.)

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25 Nov 2014, 2:40 am

Dillogic wrote:

Yeah, and you'd trust the words of a street criminal that just robbed a store? I know which one I'd go with. Yeah, I've been bullied and intimidated too, though by peers -- I'm not letting them cloud my judgement of everyone. That's admitting bias. However, no one knows what Wilson said. The accomplice is a known liar and he retracted his statements anyway, so you have nothing there. You may as well be making up words to suit your agenda. Yes. In this case, a tazer wasn't used as the actual criminals initiated the fight. Wilson was on the back foot from the beginning. He was fighting for his life the entire time. The only thing he could have done was stay in the car and not try and apprehend Brown, who just assaulted a police officer (which is backed up by witness accounts). That's not the job of the police though, to back down from criminals. (And naturally, the street criminals have burnt down and looted several businesses, in the name of someone that their peers said was guilty. Funny that.)

I never said violence by anybody was good, but I did say that based on previous episodes of official disenfranchisement [the L.A. riots, et al] that the rioting violence is understandable. to expect anything else in this situation is like expecting that if one mixes bleach and hydrogen peroxide that it won't blow up, an unrealistic expectation. it all could have been prevented had Wilson done his job properly. he is the central failure in this situation. he could have called for reinforcements from his car, that is not an unknown thing. let's just say that east is east and west is west, and never the twain shall meet. you have not convinced me that Wilson is some kind of hero, and I no longer care to convince you that he is anything but. be at peace.

Dillogic
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25 Nov 2014, 3:00 am

The jury came to the conclusion that Brown was the one at fault. He started it.

Putting the burden on the victim of the crime is victim blaming, and Wilson was the only one shown to be the victim. Funny that.

I don't know anything about Wilson, nor do I care to. The facts of the case are all that matter.

Retracted from before: the police didn't fire a single shot tonight, though they took many. An innocent was hit by a stray round fired by rioters (that's 3 hit by gunfire via the rioters now, with zero by the police).

auntblabby
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25 Nov 2014, 3:07 am

Dillogic wrote:

The jury came to the conclusion that Brown was the one at fault. He started it. Putting the burden on the victim of the crime is victim blaming, and Wilson was the only one shown to be the victim. Funny that. I don't know anything about Wilson, nor do I care to. The facts of the case are all that matter. Retracted from before: the police didn't fire a single shot tonight, though they took many. An innocent was hit by a stray round fired by rioters (that's 3 hit by gunfire via the rioters now, with zero by the police).

why do you keep implying that I am endorsing violence? I don't understand this behavior. to understand why people are rioting is NOT the same as endorsing said violence. and to call Wilson a "victim," frankly, is obscene. sorry but that is plain to me. again, if you love the man that is between you and god, AFAIC, far be it from me to deter you from that. vive la difference and all that.

Dillogic
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25 Nov 2014, 3:23 am

auntblabby wrote:

You did say the whole thing was because Wilson didn't do his job properly ("it all could have been prevented had Wilson done his job properly. he is the central failure in this situation."). And I say:

A police being attacked because he asked someone to get off the road, is a victim. If you think otherwise, then you're wrong. Hence, by your logic, Brown is the one who is to blame for this.

I don't think a single event is to blame, of course. It's obvious that community has underlying problems, and I'm sure it's not just police abuse (remove the police and see how that goes for them).

auntblabby
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25 Nov 2014, 3:40 am

Dillogic wrote:

I don't think a single event is to blame, of course. It's obvious that community has underlying problems, and I'm sure it's not just police abuse (remove the police and see how that goes for them).

the working class residents generally consider the police therein as an occupying force with no real duty to "protect and serve" anybody but the swells. all they serve as, are as corrupt bagmen for the corrupt city council for whom the major source of revenue is fines gotten from working class folk for the flimsiest of infractions. I am not a big fan of the police. I would not dare call one if I was in trouble because they are just as likely to arrest ME as actually help me.

Humanaut
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25 Nov 2014, 4:10 am

auntblabby wrote:

the working class residents generally consider the police therein as an occupying force

How big is the working class? Do you count the underemployed, or only full-time employees?

Jacoby
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25 Nov 2014, 4:13 am

I don't care what the grand jury says, the evidence doesn't add up. I think Officer Wilson executed Mike Brown, whether or not Mike Brown was a thug is immaterial since he got shot running away. I don't believe for a second that he charged a cop that had already shot him.

Humanaut
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25 Nov 2014, 4:18 am

There is a conspiracy going on?

Dillogic
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25 Nov 2014, 4:24 am

Jacoby wrote:

You'd have to prove that he did. If physical evidence and eye witness reports say he didn't, then you may as well go with that because there's nothing else to go on.

Yes, I know you think it's suicide to charge a cop with a firearm, and that no one in their right mind would do it, but it happens. People charge cops with knives. People charge cops unarmed. He also tried it once in the car, so you can see his mental faculties aren't all there -- wasn't he also on drugs?

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