Donald Trump encourages hacking to find the Clinton emails

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TomS
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30 Jul 2016, 12:48 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:
It was a joke and a mike check but that is the only thing you got right. The commies thought they might really be bombed in 5 minutes and put thier army on full alert.

Being anti political correctness does not mean a world leader should saying anything just because it is funny and it makes SJW's s**t thier pants. Since everything is seemingly offensive now people in are so desperate to not be watching thier every word they are not able to tell what is actually offensive or harmful anymore. This is one of the worst things the SJW's have done.

In Reagan's case it almost lead to all of most of us not bieng here. Probably Reagan did not know the mike was on. In Trump's case he knew damm well not only that the mike was on he knew what he said was going immediatly to the whole world.

Helping a foreign country harm the US is treason political correctness or not.

Changing the topic a bit Time magazine in todays edition is theorizing that the Russians are not necessarily trying to get Trump elected but hurt the US from within by undermining faith in the US electoral process. They said the Russians are caplable of hacking electronic voting machines to the point of having Trump win California and a few other states by 20 percent.


When you get to the point where both/all sides have multiple nuke weapons aimed at each other, capable of launch at a moments notice, you are already in the humankind insanity zone.

A hundred, or maybe a thousand different mischance's could bring on a holocaust. I once tripped an alert at a nuke facility by spooking a flock of birds while out running/exercizing. The flock rose and swerved in dense formation into sensors.

Forgive me for seeing irony, even humor at the portal to hell.



cyberdad
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30 Jul 2016, 1:08 am

Lukeda420 wrote:
The Centers for Disease Control and The World Health Organization says there is no link. The evidence I have provided come from multiple well respected sources. Again vaccines do not cause autism.


I think Dill's just saying that the MMR might have exacerbated his autism rather than caused it...

There is plenty of literature that suggests MMR does infact cause neural damage
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... faced.html

Another possible trigger is antibiotics, my daughter's behavioral regression, repetitive behavior and noise sensitivity can be neatly mapped to a bout influenza as a 3 yr old and getting antibiotics for the first time. Not a causal factor but a remarkable coincidence.

I think there are mediating or moderating factors outside of genetics and even the mental health "boffins" admit environmental factors in autism given twin studies...



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30 Jul 2016, 1:43 am

cyberdad wrote:
Another possible trigger is antibiotics, my daughter's behavioural regression, repetitive behaviour and noise sensitivity can be neatly mapped to a bout influenza as a 3 yr old and getting antibiotics for the first time. Not a causal factor but a remarkable coincidence.


The real problem with this approach, is that you probably have more "Firsts" in the 0 to 5 age range, than in the 5 to 100 age range. So the chances of a spurious coincidence are exceptionally high simply due to the concentration of novel experiences in that age range.



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30 Jul 2016, 4:44 am


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30 Jul 2016, 4:44 am


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Tufted Titmouse
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30 Jul 2016, 4:50 am

I may be autistic, but this stuff is crazy...



beneficii
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30 Jul 2016, 5:14 am

For me, if you're not going to post reviews or other secondary sources, then you might as well not bother posting any sources.


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30 Jul 2016, 6:06 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
Do you believe your autism was caused by vaccines?


That study says possible. A specific subgroup of autism that's mediated via autoimmune response to viruses being sensitive to the measles virus/vaccine. The same way a very small number of people develop Guillain-Barre from the flu shot; they say don't worry about it, as you [most likely] won't get such; people do, though.

The ones CDC use also say possible with regressive autism and earlier exposure to vaccines, even if they didn't find any noteworthy difference in developing infantile autism. They also say biologically possible with infantile autism (again though, they didn't find any real differences in the populations that had it and didn't). They say "no link" because the population studies don't show any difference in their test groups; they don't use hundreds of thousands of people in their groups with a breakdown on each specific cause (science isn't good enough for each specific cause yet), though. If you use 50-100, it won't be sensitive enough for these rare causes.

The incidence of possible cases due to the measles vaccine would effectively be, "don't worry about it", and you wouldn't say not to have such if that was your worry compared to the complications of measles itself.

Saying definitely no, they don't/can't cause autism, is technically wrong.

(If I had a child that had a bad reaction to a vaccine and developed autistic symptoms or worsening of the same at the same time, it'd be very hard to overlook such as just being coincidental. Which would be what Trump means here.)



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30 Jul 2016, 2:20 pm

Dillogic wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Do you believe your autism was caused by vaccines?


That study says possible. A specific subgroup of autism that's mediated via autoimmune response to viruses being sensitive to the measles virus/vaccine. The same way a very small number of people develop Guillain-Barre from the flu shot; they say don't worry about it, as you [most likely] won't get such; people do, though.

The ones CDC use also say possible with regressive autism and earlier exposure to vaccines, even if they didn't find any noteworthy difference in developing infantile autism. They also say biologically possible with infantile autism (again though, they didn't find any real differences in the populations that had it and didn't). They say "no link" because the population studies don't show any difference in their test groups; they don't use hundreds of thousands of people in their groups with a breakdown on each specific cause (science isn't good enough for each specific cause yet), though. If you use 50-100, it won't be sensitive enough for these rare causes.

The incidence of possible cases due to the measles vaccine would effectively be, "don't worry about it", and you wouldn't say not to have such if that was your worry compared to the complications of measles itself.

Saying definitely no, they don't/can't cause autism, is technically wrong.

(If I had a child that had a bad reaction to a vaccine and developed autistic symptoms or worsening of the same at the same time, it'd be very hard to overlook such as just being coincidental. Which would be what Trump means here.)


What Trump doesn't seem to understand is, the symptoms of autism only manifest later in a baby's development, coinciding by chance with the time vaccines are administered.
My dad, who I believe was a lifelong undiagnosed Aspie, had been born in rural eastern Washington in 1921, which was maybe a decade or two removed from the old west. Albeit, he was never vaccinated for anything, but still was autistic.
For the record, I'd rather have a child with autism (which I do), than have that child die when I could have done something (like get her vaccinated) to save her.


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30 Jul 2016, 4:31 pm

It is intensely frustrating that it is necessary to point this out in 2016 - and on a website dedicated to those on the autistic spectrum, even.... but here goes...

Taylor, Swerdfeger & Eslick (2014) wrote:
Highlights

• There was no relationship between vaccination and autism (OR: 0.99; 95% CI: 0.92 to 1.06).
• There was no relationship between vaccination and ASD (autism spectrum disorder) (OR: 0.91; 95% CI: 0.68 to 1.20).
• There was no relationship between [autism/ASD] and MMR (OR: 0.84; 95% CI: 0.70 to 1.01).
• There was no relationship between [autism/ASD] and thimerosal (OR: 1.00; 95% CI: 0.77 to 1.31).
• There was no relationship between [autism/ASD] and mercury (Hg) (OR: 1.00; 95% CI: 0.93 to 1.07).
• Findings of this meta-analysis suggest that vaccinations are not associated with the development of autism or autism spectrum disorder.


Abstract

There has been enormous debate regarding the possibility of a link between childhood vaccinations and the subsequent development of autism. This has in recent times become a major public health issue with vaccine preventable diseases increasing in the community due to the fear of a ‘link’ between vaccinations and autism. We performed a meta-analysis to summarise available evidence from case-control and cohort studies on this topic (MEDLINE, PubMed, EMBASE, Google Scholar up to April, 2014). Eligible studies assessed the relationship between vaccine administration and the subsequent development of autism or autism spectrum disorders (ASD). Two reviewers extracted data on study characteristics, methods, and outcomes. Disagreement was resolved by consensus with another author. Five cohort studies involving 1,256,407 children, and five case-control studies involving 9,920 children were included in this analysis. The cohort data revealed no relationship between vaccination and autism (OR: 0.99; 95% CI: 0.92 to 1.06) or ASD (OR: 0.91; 95% CI: 0.68 to 1.20), nor was there a relationship between autism and MMR (OR: 0.84; 95% CI: 0.70 to 1.01), or thimerosal (OR: 1.00; 95% CI: 0.77 to 1.31), or mercury (Hg) (OR: 1.00; 95% CI: 0.93 to 1.07). Similarly the case-control data found no evidence for increased risk of developing autism or ASD following MMR, Hg, or thimerosal exposure when grouped by condition (OR: 0.90, 95% CI: 0.83 to 0.98; p = 0.02) or grouped by exposure type (OR: 0.85, 95% CI: 0.76 to 0.95; p = 0.01). Findings of this meta-analysis suggest that vaccinations are not associated with the development of autism or autism spectrum disorder. Furthermore, the components of the vaccines (thimerosal or mercury) or multiple vaccines (MMR) are not associated with the development of autism or autism spectrum disorder.


Maglione et al. (2014) wrote:
Abstract

BACKGROUND: Concerns about vaccine safety have led some parents to decline recommended vaccination of their children, leading to the resurgence of diseases. Reassurance of vaccine safety remains critical for population health. This study systematically reviewed the literature on the safety of routine vaccines recommended for children in the United States.

METHODS: Data sources included PubMed, Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices statements, package inserts, existing reviews, manufacturer information packets, and the 2011 Institute of Medicine consensus report on vaccine safety. We augmented the Institute of Medicine report with more recent studies and increased the scope to include more vaccines. Only studies that used active surveillance and had a control mechanism were included. Formulations not used in the United States were excluded. Adverse events and patient and vaccine characteristics were abstracted. Adverse event collection and reporting was evaluated by using the McHarm scale. We were unable to pool results. Strength of evidence was rated as high, moderate, low, or insufficient.

RESULTS: Of 20 478 titles identified, 67 were included. Strength of evidence was high for measles/mumps/rubella (MMR) vaccine and febrile seizures; the varicella vaccine was associated with complications in immunodeficient individuals. There is strong evidence that MMR vaccine is not associated with autism. There is moderate evidence that rotavirus vaccines are associated with intussusception. Limitations of the study include that the majority of studies did not investigate or identify risk factors for AEs; and the severity of AEs was inconsistently reported.

CONCLUSIONS: We found evidence that some vaccines are associated with serious AEs; however, these events are extremely rare and must be weighed against the protective benefits that vaccines provide.

And from the conclusion:

Maglione et al. (2014) wrote:
Our findings may allay some patient, caregiver, and health care provider concerns. Strength of evidence is high that MMR vaccine is not associated with the onset of autism in children; this conclusion supports findings of all previous reviews on the topic.

Sources:
Taylor, Luke E., Amy L. Swerdfeger, and Guy D. Eslick. "Vaccines are not associated with autism: an evidence-based meta-analysis of case-control and cohort studies." Vaccine 32.29 (2014): 3623-3629.
http://www.ruvzca.sk/sites/default/file ... m_2014.pdf

Maglione, Margaret A., et al. "Safety of vaccines used for routine immunization of US children: a systematic review." Pediatrics 134.2 (2014): 325-337.
http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/c ... 5.full.pdf

Or... in plain English...

The vaccine/autism link is:

- refuted
- disproven
- dismissed
- quashed
- disconfirmed
- Jim Webb's presidential campaign
- repudiated
- abnegated
- demolished
- confuted
- negated
- In a duel with Harrison Ford
- disposed of
- shot down
- rejected
- discarded
- discredited
- Deader than a red-shirt extra with a single-episode appearance on Star Trek
- invalidated
- repealed
- abandoned
- nixed
- extirpated
- In another duel with Harrison Ford



Dillogic
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30 Jul 2016, 5:31 pm

GGPViper wrote:
Or... in plain English...


Which is what I agree with and have said. There's generally no overall link going by the various population studies.

However, that doesn't take away from the possibility of it potentially causing autism in specific cases, and there's evidence for this. To overlook such is wrong and unscientific.



cyberdad
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30 Jul 2016, 8:48 pm

SpiceWolf wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Another possible trigger is antibiotics, my daughter's behavioural regression, repetitive behaviour and noise sensitivity can be neatly mapped to a bout influenza as a 3 yr old and getting antibiotics for the first time. Not a causal factor but a remarkable coincidence.


The real problem with this approach, is that you probably have more "Firsts" in the 0 to 5 age range, than in the 5 to 100 age range. So the chances of a spurious coincidence are exceptionally high simply due to the concentration of novel experiences in that age range.

True, but I'm inclined to keep an open mind to environmental factors but of course we don't know if these occur prenatal or postnatal (the later is perhaps more controversial)

Mr Trump of course subscribes to conspiracy theories. His beliefs when taken in unison are embarrassingly anti-intellectual. This is symptomatic of conservatives who hate anything that conflicts with their world views, one of our conservative Australian prime ministers Tony Abbott also believed in conspiracies that scientists were deliberately fabricating data on global warming.



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01 Aug 2016, 2:31 pm

Tony Abbot on Syria was the most elegant: they're all bad guys. :)

Anyway, here's a good breakdown on various possible causes for autism (if it's an interest):

http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/9 ... verview#a4



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01 Aug 2016, 2:42 pm

Dillogic,

That link you just posted says there are no associations between vaccines and autism in two different places.



Dillogic
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01 Aug 2016, 2:59 pm

Lukeda420 wrote:
Dillogic,

That link you just posted says there are no associations between vaccines and autism in two different places.


Yes

Population studies show there's none (no statistically significant link). Which is evidence enough to show that they're safe in all practical cases compared to the complications of the viruses they protect against.

Will the MMR cause autism in your healthy child? That's going to be "no" based on weight of evidence.

That's not saying, "it doesn't cause autism 100% of the time", though. If it's possible to cause such in specific cases (not the majority of, so you won't find it in population studies), then there's doubt in certainty here. It says children have developed such after the vaccine, after all; now, whether that's coincidence or a causal factor, no one knows. If there's a study that says it's possible, then there you go. They're still doing studies now on this, as researchers aren't satisfied with saying "100% no causal link". Actual cause and effect still needs to be shown, though I'm repeating myself.

Air pollution looks interesting (which is also a population study). Global warming = autism link? Coming up next.