Nazi support on social media

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Indeed.
I knew they would fight but I had no idea they would be this strong and determined. Trudeau should tie Zelensky's shoes.

Why does Ukraine even exist? Sounds like they are as close as Austria and Germany.

Interested in a lecture on history of East Europe? Just promise me you'll listen.

I'm listening

Zelinsky is a legend.

You, having an open mind? <joke>

The first Russian centers were Norse trading posts in Slavic-inhabited region: Kiev and Great Novgorod. The first dynasty of Russian rulers - Ruriks - were Norse.
This state adopted Byzanthine christianity (Greek Orthodox) in 10th century, before the final split between Catholic and Orthodox.

The big state of Kievan Rus' partitioned into countless smaller duchies, which was a common phenomenon in medieval Europe. These duchies had various further development - some were conquered by Poland, many by Lithuania (which was a great military power at the time), some founded their own statehoods like Novgorod Republic, a lot got conquered by Mongol empire.

It had been like that for centuries. As neither Poles nor Lithuanians nor Mongols cared for it much, the Russian/Ruthenian language and religion were strong despite political partitioning.

<to be continued - real life emergency to attend to>

Ok. and how did this cause Ukraine to split from Russia? after all isn't Russia named after the Kievan Rus? all one people?

You remember what happened the last time someone tried to merge Germany and Austria, right?

Ukrainian history is long and complicated. Magz will be better able to explain all the intricacies than I can, but the very short version is that “Russia and Ukraine are the same” is a gross simplification. Even in just the last century, there has been Holodomor, forced resettlement, and forced deportation of ethnic minorities, all instigated by Russia.

In 1990 the Ukrainian people rose up and demanded independence. They’ve repeatedly reasserted that independence both at the ballot box and in protests - see the Orange Revolution, the Revolution of Dignity, and now the resistance against the Russian invasion.

When you say “historically there have been ties between Russia and Ukraine”, the question you should ask yourself is “so what?” Are countries never allowed to seek independence in your world? Is it OK to invade other countries just because you feel entitled to them?

The “other” Russians are the Muscovy (Moscow) Russians.

The Ukrainians of Kievan Rus descent aren’t exactly thrilled with them, since at least Tsar Ivan the Terrible.

They took them over, and colonized them. Putin and Russia, to them, is somewhat like the US viz a viz Great Britain circa 1776–except probably even more extreme. They were closely related ethnically, like the Brits and Yanks—but that fact doesn’t mitigate the animosity between them which exists today.

In the 1920s, the USSR implemented farm collectivization policies in Ukraine which was a major cause of a Great Famine which killed millions of people.

Indeed. They are not the same and don't belong in the same state.

That said, a smaller and weaker state will fall under the influence of it's larger and more powerful neighbor. That's the natural order of things and is true across the world.

...continuation.

So, after split of the Kievan Rus, vast regions of East Europe were inhabited by Greek Orthodox, Russian-speaking, Cyrillic-writing people but divided between numerous political entities of very different governing style.

In 16th century, Moscow, up to this time a small duchy dependent on Mongol Empire, started to elevate its position, first uniting other Russian duchies against Mongols, then rather brutally conquering others. This is when the concept of Great Russia started.

However, despite Moscow claims even back at these times, not all the Russian cultural continuum was willing to join Moscow. Many Russian-speaking states weren't happy about brutal Moscow methods and preferred different alliances.

Novgorod Republic, one of the birthplaces of Russia, was a peaceful merchant state with strong Scandinavian influences, allied with Lithuania. It got massacred by Ivan IV. The other birthplace, Kiev, was too strongly tied to Poland to share this destiny. While Polish rule in Ukraine is not something we should be proud of, Kievan elites recognized the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth offered them way more freedoms than Moscow, so they refused to join Moscow (for non-elites, it didn't change much who their exploiter was). BTW, Belarus is the part of cultural Russian continuum that stayed under Lithuanian rule at that time.

"Ukraine" means "Borderland". In this formative time, it was a rather anarchic region of power struggles between Poland-Lithuania and Tatar Khans. Warlike, freedom-loving Cossac culture emerged there.

With partitions of Poland-Lithuania, large parts of now-Ukraine ended up in... Austria. Other were taken by Moscow.

<okay, tired for now. I might continue after some rest.>

Yeah, I thought the war would be over in a couple of days really.
When the Germans occupied Norway during WW2, our government fled to London and sent radio broadcasts to encourage the people. Zelenskyj stayed behind and moves about to show that he's there, and part of the fight. He has impressed me, and so has the spirit and defensive skills of the Ukrainian people.
Putin seems to have seriously underestimated the Ukrainians and the reactions in and sanctions of Europe, North-America, and some other places.


In the news here it has been said that there have been demonstrations in at least 44 Russian cities.

I believe the recent history between the USSR and the Ukraine justifies Ukraine's desire to remain an independent state, rather than under the dominion of the Russians.

Okay, we're moving towards modern times...

After Partitions of Poland-Lithuania, what is now Ukraine was very split. Eastern part fell to Tsarist Russia, while western parts to Austria-Hungary. Crimea was Tatar. The two were empires of very different ruling styles, Russia being a nationalist autocracy and Austria prefering politics of multinational meddling and alliances.

This division lasted until WWI. After WWI, Ukrainians from the Austrian part tried to establish their own state but Soviet Russia and - I must shamefully admit - Poland stood on their way.

Those who fell under Soviet regime experienced a society-wide trauma: Holodomor. An artificial famine in fertile Ukraine as sanctions for their resistance to collectivisation. A human-made famine that starved millions to death in the very breadbasket. The orders to do it came from Moscow...

During WWII, some Ukrainians tried to ally with Nazis in hope for their own state. That's where the Ukrainian Nazi controversy comes from, alive until this day. Yup, this group did nasty things, of which they get whitewashed in national myths.

After WWII, Poland was "moved like a wardrobe" west and parts of then-Poland-now-Ukraine that were never dependent on Moscow before, became parts of USSR. It was also traumatic, with forced relocations and brutal Soviet rule on people who were used to softer Polish and Austrian policies.

In 1991, after collapse of Soviet Union, Ukraine was very divided. Eastern parts were Russian-speaking and people there often didn't see any difference between them and Russians. Western parts were Ukrainian-speaking - that's quite a different language, with its characteristic phonem shifts and lots of words common with Polish and Slovak rather than Russian - and hated Moscow vividly.

It was like that until 2014. Citizens of Western parts wanted to establish democracy and join EU, Easterners valued their ties with Russia. Things were pretty torn apart but slowly drifted towards free elections and allying with EU, when Russia-backed president Yanukovych apparently "out of the blue" (in fact likely out of fear of Kremlin) refused to sign EU association agreement that had been earlier negotiated by his government. This sparked country-wide protests and Yanukovych fled to Russia. The government was toppled and a provisional government of mainly West Ukrainians filled the vacuum.

This is when Russians annexed Crimea and started supporting separatists in the east. The war started, though pretty low-profile back then.

But this move, according to my father who often visited Kiev on business, changed a lot to unite the until-then divided nation. Russian speakers started to learn Ukrainian or use Ukrainian phonem shifts in Russian words. Nothing unites like a common enemy - and since annexation of Crimea, Ukrainians more and more agreed with each other that their enemy is Putin. Ukrainians had several elections since then and they never chose the Russian-backed candidate for president. Despite an ongoing war and crippling economical state, they chose consistent pro-Western politics.

Pro-western Kiev is something the Moscow narrative of Mother Russia can't tolerate... and we're seeing the results.

TIL: Canada should accept inevitably being conquered by Americans without resisting because it's the natural order.