Australia will continue to support Ukrainian war effort

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Pepe
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27 Feb 2023, 8:33 pm

Persephone29 wrote:
^ and a country on the hook for 100 Billion is just plain weird. My God... what the actual f*** does this world think we're made of? The majority of US citizens are regular people, with regular jobs and regular hopes and dreams. Yet our government is acting as if we are a bottomless bank.


There is a bigger picture here that some can't see or don't accept.

Cast your vote in the next election and encourage others to do so.
What else can you do?



Mona Pereth
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28 Feb 2023, 3:20 pm

cyberdad wrote:
Mona Pereth wrote:
Big difference: In the case of Afghanistan and Iraq, alliances of mostly Western states were the invaders. On the other hand, in the case of Ukraine, the West is not the invader. .


ummm, If I recall Sadam took the oil fields of Kuwait so was accused of invading.

That was the first Gulf War -- in which, indeed, the U.S.A. was defending Kuwait. I was under the impression you were talking about the second Gulf War, in which the U.S.A. was the invader.

The U.S.A. and its allies were much more successful in the first Gulf war than in the second.

cyberdad wrote:
The US used the Mujahadeen in Afghanistan to fend off the Russians in the same way they are using Zelensy and his Ukrainian army to fend off the Russians.

Again I was mistaken about which intervention you were referring to. I thought you were talking about the U.S. invasion of Afghanistan in 2001.

Reasonable comparisons can indeed be made between American aid to Ukraine and American aid to Afghan rebels back in the 1980's. But that particular U.S. intervention in Afghanistan was actually a resounding success from the U.S. point of view, i.e. the Soviet forces were indeed expelled from Afghanistan and the Soviet Union was weakened to the point of collapse. The only problem was, in Afghanistan, the rebels had an ideology that was at least as much anti-West as anti-Soviet, resulting eventually in the 9/11 attacks.

Ukraine is not similarly dominated by an anti-West ideology. Indeed, the reason why Russia invaded Ukraine in the first place was that Ukraine had become too friendly to the West.


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cyberdad
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28 Feb 2023, 3:40 pm

Mona Pereth wrote:
Reasonable comparisons can indeed be made between American aid to Ukraine and American aid to Afghan rebels back in the 1980's. But that particular U.S. intervention in Afghanistan was actually a resounding success from the U.S. point of view, i.e. the Soviet forces were indeed expelled from Afghanistan and the Soviet Union was weakened to the point of collapse. The only problem was, in Afghanistan, the rebels had an ideology that was at least as much anti-West as anti-Soviet, resulting eventually in the 9/11 attacks..


Let's take a hypothetical. If Putin backs down due to pressure from China or economic imperatives then it leaves Ukraine to
a) join NATO as a member state
b) create an anti-Russian state on Russia's border
c) elevate certain factions of the Ukrainian army who were absorbed from the Azov militia and other far right milita.

At some point in the future when war ceases, there will still continue border clashes in Russian held territories. When you take the points I make in a-c then the seeds for the next conflict will arise. I now make the comparison between Israel and Palestine. OR Northern Ireland and UK. From 1948 Each time one war ended another began,

This conflict will continue to cause chaos for the world combined with soaring oil, food and energy prices. While thete are those who are happy to pour trillions into Ukraine there are others concerned we are playing "Russian roulette" with a nuclear armed Rissian state. If nuclear weapons are activated then there will be no "winners".

My only hope is China might be able to secure some type of ceasefire with Putin but then CHina has its eyes on Taiwan so I am not sure whether there is a conflict of interest from their perspective.



magz
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28 Feb 2023, 3:55 pm

The one who "created an anti-Russian state on Russia's border" is putin.
Most Ukrainians weren't anti-russian before they experienced all these attrocities. Some were, remembering eariler attrocities like Holodomor - but most weren't.
Until they got attacked.

Joining NATO is very discouraging against attacking first - attacking first would strip one from art 5 protection. So, Ukraine regaining control over its rightful territorry and joining NATO would stabilize the borders, regardless of sentiments in both Russia and Ukraine. That's the mechanics of this treaty.

By the way - how about an anti-Ukrainian state crossing Ukrainian border with tanks and artillery?


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Pepe
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28 Feb 2023, 8:33 pm

cyberdad wrote:

At some point in the future when war ceases, there will still continue border clashes in Russian held territories. When you take the points I make in a-c then the seeds for the next conflict will arise.


Sanctions have crippled pootin.
Russia's military/equipment has already been "decimated"/exhausted.
Its economy is in ruins, contrary to pootin's fantasy figures he gives to the IMF.

It would take Russia more than a decade to recover fully, and hopefully, pootin will be dead by then.
Hopefully, the next feral leader of The Russian Federation will be more concerned with maintaining what it still has rather than "Making Russia Great Again".
What fool would make the same mistake again after a reset? :scratch:



cyberdad
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01 Mar 2023, 7:17 am

Pepe wrote:
"Making Russia Great Again".
What fool would make the same mistake again after a reset? :scratch:


Don;t you mean Make the USSR Great Again?



magz
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01 Mar 2023, 7:24 am

cyberdad wrote:
Pepe wrote:
"Making Russia Great Again".
What fool would make the same mistake again after a reset? :scratch:
Don;t you mean Make the USSR Great Again?
Poo Tin's speeches more often refer to tsar-time empire than USSR.
Currently, of USSR history, Stalin is being promoted and Lenin is highly criticized for creating a union in place of the former empire.

Strange times, really strange times.


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cyberdad
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01 Mar 2023, 7:27 am

I believe there is a demand in the US for old Soviet paraphernalia. It's considered artistic kitsch



Pepe
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01 Mar 2023, 3:45 pm

cyberdad wrote:
Pepe wrote:
"Making Russia Great Again".
What fool would make the same mistake again after a reset? :scratch:


Don;t you mean Make the USSR Great Again?


Semantics. 8)



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01 Mar 2023, 4:35 pm

Da.. Comrad.. :salut: :salut: .. We are to be missing da Gut Ald days . Need more Russki paraphanalia . :skull: :evil: :cry:


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Pepe
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01 Mar 2023, 10:13 pm

Jakki wrote:
Da.. Comrad.. :salut: :salut: .. We are to be missing da Gut Ald days . Need more Russki paraphanalia . :skull: :evil: :cry:


What arrogance.
Russians thinking they have the RIGHT to enslave sovereign nations after those countries escaped communist tyranny. :roll: