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Australia’s antisemitic wave escalating and spreading

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TwilightPrincess
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Yesterday, 1:41 am

I didn’t claim that one caused the other.

This is something I’ve often seen on here: someone makes questionable statements that, perhaps, demonstrate some bias. When people respond to that which they believe is problematic or incorrect/misleading and rebuttals are made and refuted, the claim that they are failing to stick to the topic is typically stated. It often looks like an attempt to silence dissenting opinions and/or an attempt to prevent the exploration of alternative perspectives/possibilities even if they still relate to the overall topic, which this tangent does in certain key ways.

Show Spoiler
cyberdora wrote:
notboston wrote:
Australia has been particularly antisemitic towards Palestinians
Not really.
cyberdora wrote:
I thought you were talking about Palestinians living in Australia. they have a pretty food life actually.
cyberdora wrote:
the optics are terrible. two nurses, one in a hijab and one an Afghan refugee gloating…

<snip>

It's more likely, they are reacting because it has ruined the public image of islam in Australia.

<snip>

this is a really serious accusation and for muslim groups to drag Palestine into what is a criminal investigation looks really bad to me.
cyberdora wrote:
Yes I am aware one incident here in Victoria involving an Australian woman attacking two women in hijab a few days ago. I don't know the details but it's an isolated incident and people think the Australian woman might be mentally ill.
cyberdora wrote:
Some Australians do have antisemitic views (I don't dispute that). But, the statistics you quote suggest the rise in antisemitic attitudes is linked to the Israel war. If you are make this link then it's more than coincidental it coincides with the increase in actual attacks on Jewish people and property.
^ You didn’t acknowledge the research that highlights the widespread issues with Islamophobia in Australia which seems clear looking at some of the other comments I quoted in this post (as well as those I recall seeing elsewhere). When research is provided, it often goes ignored.

Alluding to Islamophobia here, including the occurrence of hate crimes, which there’s a wealth of research on, does NOT diminish the reality of bigotry towards Jews. Simply stating the similar experience of Muslims is NOT taking this thread off-topic although it would likely focus more on antisemitism experienced by Jews if problematic and/or inaccurate comments weren’t made leading to people wanting to address them.

This sounds relatable to stuff that’s in the article in the OP:

Show Spoiler
Quote:
The Islamophobia Register has been similarly inundated.

In the year after the Hamas attacks on 7 October 2023, 932 incidents were reported to the register – eclipsing the entire 930 incidents logged in its first eight years of operation, according to its executive director, Dr Nora Amath. Since 7 October 2024, a further 92 incidents have been reported. The Islamophobia Register aims to publish a full report in March.

Some examples provided by the register include a man physically and verbally abusing a group of friends, calling them “f*****g terrorist Muslim c***s”. There have also been three separate threats that referred to the Christchurch mosque terrorism attack, talk of killing “all Muslim scum”, and a case where a woman’s hijab was ripped off.

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-n ... bia-ntwnfb

I agree that we should strive to avoid the Oppression Olympics. Part of that would involve not making dismissive comments or pushing the idea that one group has it worse than the other in Australia when they are both struggling with ongoing bigotry.



cyberdora
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Yesterday, 3:18 am

Sorry, still can't see how the rise in antisemitism in Australia has anything to do with islamophobia?
I have no underlying motive in my point other than I do not understand the logic?



TwilightPrincess
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Yesterday, 7:20 am

cyberdora wrote:
I have no underlying motive in my point other than I do not understand the logic?
Whether you had a motive or not, I addressed why pushback was made to some of the comments you posted. For example, if you repeatedly demonstrate that you don’t understand how big an issue Islamophobia is in Australia, people would likely feel compelled to cite research on the topic. If in talking about antisemitism you make negative, generalizing remarks about Muslims, people would likely want to comment on issues related to Islamophobia. A good way to avoid getting a thread off-topic is by trying to avoid those sorts of statements. Consider previous debates that arose on this topic or on ones related to sexism. They typically started because problematic statements were made - most often statements involving generalizations or dismissive remarks.

Here’s another example of a negative generalization in this thread that I forgot to include in my last post:
cyberdora wrote:
I think the peak muslim bodies need to handle attitudes in their own community (that is rife) that lead to views expressed by the two nurses. I hardly think these two are unique, everyone knows this but we can't say anything. Fact is we live in Australia (not Israel). You can't express a desire to kill fellow Australians in your care and not expect a nationwide backlash.
This is the sort of comment that’s best avoided if your goal is to keep the thread on the topic of antisemitism. When expressing concerns about antisemitism, avoiding making dismissive or negative general remarks about Muslims who are also an oppressed group is prudent.

Given the similar growth rate in antisemitism and Islamophobia over the past year, they are more alike than some would realize. Both groups often experience bigotry for ethno-religious reasons and share certain commonalities related to that, both experience similar attacks according to the research, and both have had to contend with a large increase in bigotry and hate crimes due to the public’s perception of the conflict in Israel.

However, the issue of Islamophobia was largely addressed here due to your own statements about Muslims in this thread.



cyberdora
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Yesterday, 3:48 pm

TwilightPrincess wrote:
Here’s another example of a negative generalization in this thread that I forgot to include in my last post:
cyberdora wrote:
I think the peak muslim bodies need to handle attitudes in their own community (that is rife) that lead to views expressed by the two nurses. I hardly think these two are unique, everyone knows this but we can't say anything. Fact is we live in Australia (not Israel). You can't express a desire to kill fellow Australians in your care and not expect a nationwide backlash.
This is the sort of comment that’s best avoided if your goal is to keep the thread on the topic of antisemitism. When expressing concerns about antisemitism, avoiding making dismissive or negative general remarks about Muslims who are also an oppressed group is prudent.


I'm afraid you are way off the mark here. You know very well that normal people employed in the health sector take a vow/oath to not harm. Nurses can't express views (even if they thought they were not recorded) that allude to a desire to kill patients in your care. You keep ignoring the seriousness and the impact this has had nationally. I live here, and read the papers online and speak with people locally. the peak muslim bodies I am referring to volunteered to not only publicly support these nurses but also to criticise members of the public who were disgusted by the comments and invoke islamophobia. What these bodies do not address is whether the attitudes the nurses carry are more widespread?, the public have a right to be concerned. You are welcome to be judgemental but people have a right to ask and its really none of your business how the Australian public feel, especially Jewish people who are already dealing with antisemitism.



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Yesterday, 3:52 pm

TwilightPrincess wrote:
Given the similar growth rate in antisemitism and Islamophobia over the past year, they are more alike than some would realize. Both groups often experience bigotry for ethno-religious reasons and share certain commonalities related to that, both experience similar attacks according to the research, and both have had to contend with a large increase in bigotry and hate crimes due to the public’s perception of the conflict in Israel.

However, the issue of Islamophobia was largely addressed here due to your own statements about Muslims in this thread.


I have already said that islamophobia is real in Australia and just as widespread as antisemitism. You seem to have ignored my request to create a separate thread on the topic.



TwilightPrincess
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Yesterday, 4:04 pm

cyberdora wrote:
TwilightPrincess wrote:
Given the similar growth rate in antisemitism and Islamophobia over the past year, they are more alike than some would realize. Both groups often experience bigotry for ethno-religious reasons and share certain commonalities related to that, both experience similar attacks according to the research, and both have had to contend with a large increase in bigotry and hate crimes due to the public’s perception of the conflict in Israel.

However, the issue of Islamophobia was largely addressed here due to your own statements about Muslims in this thread.


I have already said that islamophobia is real in Australia and just as widespread as antisemitism. You seem to have ignored my request to create a separate thread on the topic.
Frankly, it’s not up to you, and I don’t have to follow your requests here. People are free to engage with the statements people make in threads, perhaps especially when they demonstrate bias or promote misinformation in some way. I demonstrated to you in previous posts the specific comments you made which led to a discussion of Islamophobia here. It might be useful to read back through them and consider why they contributed to this specific train of thought.



cyberdora
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Yesterday, 4:08 pm

TwilightPrincess wrote:
Frankly, it’s not up to you, and I don’t have to follow your requests here. People are free to engage with the statements people make in threads, perhaps especially when they demonstrate bias or promote misinformation in some way. I demonstrated to you in previous posts the specific comments you made which led to a discussion of Islamophobia here. It might be useful to read back through them and consider why they contributed to this specific train of thought.


I have, I have respectfully disagreed with you that islamophobia has anything to do with this thread but agree its just as important an issue in Australia as antisemitism so deserves a separate thread. I never made any demands, merely invited you to create a separate thread.



TwilightPrincess
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Yesterday, 4:15 pm

^ You can disagree all you want but when bias is detected in a thread it will likely be addressed in some capacity. I’m glad that you’re saying that Islamophobia is a major issue although previous posts seemed to indicate something else which is why they were addressed.

cyberdora wrote:
TwilightPrincess wrote:
Here’s another example of a negative generalization in this thread that I forgot to include in my last post:
cyberdora wrote:
I think the peak muslim bodies need to handle attitudes in their own community (that is rife) that lead to views expressed by the two nurses. I hardly think these two are unique, everyone knows this but we can't say anything. Fact is we live in Australia (not Israel). You can't express a desire to kill fellow Australians in your care and not expect a nationwide backlash.
This is the sort of comment that’s best avoided if your goal is to keep the thread on the topic of antisemitism. When expressing concerns about antisemitism, avoiding making dismissive or negative general remarks about Muslims who are also an oppressed group is prudent.


I'm afraid you are way off the mark here. You know very well that normal people employed in the health sector take a vow/oath to not harm. Nurses can't express views (even if they thought they were not recorded) that allude to a desire to kill patients in your care. You keep ignoring the seriousness and the impact this has had nationally. I live here, and read the papers online and speak with people locally. the peak muslim bodies I am referring to volunteered to not only publicly support these nurses but also to criticise members of the public who were disgusted by the comments and invoke islamophobia. What these bodies do not address is whether the attitudes the nurses carry are more widespread?, the public have a right to be concerned. You are welcome to be judgemental but people have a right to ask and its really none of your business how the Australian public feel, especially Jewish people who are already dealing with antisemitism.

You are making general claims about Muslims based on the apparent behavior of a couple of nurses. In no way am I ignoring the seriousness of what may have occurred. I just disagree with using specific incidents to make negative generalizations about Muslims which you did in the quotes I cited. It’s perfectly reasonable to talk about bigotry against Muslims and Jews, but it’s not okay to use those behaviors to make negative generalizations about a demographic, period. That was my point.

If you feel that specific views are prevalent in certain Muslim groups in Australia (which still isn’t all Muslims), you might want to think about why that may be so - about the Islamophobia that is so often swept under the rug when here there is an immediate public outcry before the facts are well-known or verified. It doesn’t make crimes against Jews okay, but the apparent double standard could be a contributing factor to attitudes among some groups of Muslims.



Last edited by TwilightPrincess on 20 Feb 2025, 4:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

cyberdora
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Yesterday, 4:23 pm

Again you are scanning my posts looking for one point to launch a full scale enquiry. I am not biased. I made one point that the Australian peak muslim bodies need to look at antisemitic beliefs in their community that lead to attitudes carried by these nurses rather than trying to say "it was all a joke". You are turning this into cyberdora is islamophobic. I will leave others to decide as you clearly over blowing this beyond the actual intention which is what I am saying.



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Yesterday, 4:36 pm

Here is the response of the peak muslim groups to the actions of the two nurses being condemned
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-02-18/ ... /104950826
the specific statement that is wrong is this one -
"The groups said it was hypocritical to condemn the nurses, while the actions of the Israeli government in Gaza were met with "silence, dismissal, or complicity".

I believe they have no right making judgements of people (including the nurses union, the Australian public and politicians on both sides) condemning the nurses on the basis of a completely separate issue, namely their perceptions of how the same people should respond to an external conflict. Essentially this is what is known as a straw man argument - misrepresenting an opponent's argument to make it easier to attack.

It should be obvious they have used the act by the two nurses to publicise another issue that has nothing to do with the issue at hand. Pointing this out is not islamophobic. Please do not throw labels at me.



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Yesterday, 4:54 pm

Two men charged in connection to alleged antisemitic attack in Sydney's east also allegedly connected to synagogue inciden


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Yesterday, 4:58 pm

Two men charged in connection to alleged antisemitic attack in Sydney's east also allegedly connected to synagogue incident

Quote:
Two men charged with allegedly starting a fire at a Newtown synagogue have now been charged in connection to a separate alleged antisemitic incident in Sydney's east in January.

The men, 33-year-old Adam Moule and 37-year-old Leon Sofilas, were charged after cars were set alight and homes were vandalised on Henry Street at Queens Park.

Police alleged the pair were connected to the vandalism of the five cars and two vehicles on January 11.

NSW Police said detectives on Wednesday charged Mr Moule and Mr Sofilas with accessory before the fact to damaging property in company, and participate criminal group contribute criminal activity.

Also on January 11, red swastikas were discovered painted on the front fence of a synagogue on Georgina Street in Newtown.

NSW Police allege a "clear liquid" was used to ignite a fire that extinguished itself after three minutes at the site.

Over a week later, police made two arrests.

Mr Moule was charged with destroy property in company, use fire and destroy/damage property in company.

Mr Sofilas was charged with destroy/damage property in company, destroy property in company use fire, and knowingly display by public act Nazi symbol without excuse.

Mr Sofilas has also been allegedly linked to a firebombing outside the former home of a prominent Jewish leader.

On Wednesday he was charged with accessory before the fact in relation to an attack in Dover Heights where two cars were set alight and graffitied with antisemitic phrases on January 17.

The incident took place out the front of the former home of Alex Ryvchin, the co-chief executive of the Executive Council of Australian Jewry, which was covered in red paint.

One of the cars was graffitied with the words "f*** Israel" and another vehicle with "f*** Jews" that was also set alight.

It's understood the two men captured on CCTV footage outside the property on the night of the attack have not been charged and Mr Sofilas is not accused of carrying out the actions depicted in that video.

Police arrested Mr Sofilas at Parklea Correctional Centre and Mr Moule at Silverwater Correctional Complex.


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Yesterday, 5:00 pm

^^^ Voicing concerns about what a specific group said is very different from generalized remarks about Muslims as long as one doesn’t try to claim that the leadership of a group is representative. I think that’s where things start to cross over into negative generalizations.

cyberdora wrote:
Again you are scanning my posts looking for one point to launch a full scale enquiry.
No, that certainly wasn’t my goal.
cyberdora wrote:
You are turning this into cyberdora is islamophobic.
I haven’t called anyone Islamophobic. I tend to point out bias and misleading statements in political discussions when I see them, especially when various are made, because it’s a pernicious problem - perhaps THE problem right now. No one is free from bias, but being a bit careful in certain contexts and with word choice is sometimes an especially good idea.

I needed to explain that to avoid being misconstrued here. Carry on.



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Yesterday, 5:28 pm

 ! Cornflake wrote:
Being careful with what's said in posts is important because it can be read quite differently and be challenged, even though what was said wasn't related to the topic; it was published and is therefore open to criticism.

Unfortunately this can result in an off topic side-discussion, as in the preceding off topic block.

That has now ended - please keep to the topic from here onwards.


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cyberdora
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Today, 1:44 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:
Police arrested Mr Sofilas at Parklea Correctional Centre and Mr Moule at Silverwater Correctional Complex.

the two men were arrested in prison?



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Today, 11:22 am

cyberdora wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
Police arrested Mr Sofilas at Parklea Correctional Centre and Mr Moule at Silverwater Correctional Complex.

the two men were arrested in prison?

They were already in prison for starting a fire in a synagogue when they were arrested for vandalizing cars and setting fires to homes.


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