just curious but why is being a Muslim seen as being...

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oscuria
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18 May 2008, 6:24 pm

Well, you can differentiate the religion of a South Asian by his/her name. Usually, not always though. But it's general knowledge.

Take for instance the name Ali to the name Umar. You can practically point out who the shia and the sunni are.



pakled
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18 May 2008, 7:13 pm

so I've heard. I actually have problems at work with this, because I don't know the male names from the female. Over here, anything ending in 'a', usually denotes a female, but not always...;)
I guess (but don't know), that the majority are Hindu, a very few Sikh (that's easier, they're all names Singh, it's part of their religion). It just makes it hard to put salutations on emails, etc...;)

I wouldn't Shia from Sunni from Alawite, from Druze (sp?), from Dervish, from Sufi...



oscuria
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18 May 2008, 7:22 pm

Just start of by stating:

Assalamu 'alaikum
Namaste
Sat Sri Akaal

Ha.


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iamnotaparakeet
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19 May 2008, 5:32 pm

oscuria wrote:
Just start of by stating:

Assalamu 'alaikum
Namaste
Sat Sri Akaal

Ha.


"Assalamu 'alaikum"

Sounds like "Shalom alechem!" {Peace to you all!}



Khan_Sama
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20 May 2008, 10:22 am

Assalamu 'alaikum and Shalom alechem have the same meaning. Hebrew and Arabic are both semitic languages, both religions are similar (Muslims view Islam as revealed to Muhammed as the final chapter of the faith, which has been revealed to different prophets such as Adam, Abraham, Jesus, Moses, etc), thus there's some similarity in the greetings. The main reason why Arabic spread from the Hejaz to all over the middle east so quickly is due to the similarities in the semitic languages.



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20 May 2008, 1:19 pm

Khan_Sama wrote:
Assalamu 'alaikum and Shalom alechem have the same meaning. Hebrew and Arabic are both semitic languages, both religions are similar (Muslims view Islam as revealed to Muhammed as the final chapter of the faith, which has been revealed to different prophets such as Adam, Abraham, Jesus, Moses, etc), thus there's some similarity in the greetings. The main reason why Arabic spread from the Hejaz to all over the middle east so quickly is due to the similarities in the semitic languages.


Well I now understand why the north were reluctant to embrace Islam. It is also curious to know that Jews and Muslims lived so well together in the middle-east and now well...things are not so even...



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20 May 2008, 4:10 pm

What exactly do you mean by "the north"? Europe? At the height of the Caliphate of Corduba, 25% of Spain's population was Muslim. They were exiled to Morocco after fall of Corduba. Large Muslim communities exist in Bosnia, Albania, and Kosovo. Islam is the dominant religion in central Asia, with Muslim-majority communities existing as far as Chechenya. Muslim minorities exist in every country.

Relations between Jews and Muslims has always changed, ever since Muhammed started spreading the message. The worst during his lifetime was when the Banu Qurayza, a Jewish tribe in Medina, betrayed the Muslims during the battle of the trench. The Muslims were victorious, all the Qurayza men were executed, and the women & children were sold into slavery (the decision was made by a Jewish tribe loyal to Muhammed, and he gave it his approval). After this incident, relations between the Muslims and Jews mostly remained cordial, with Muslims offering them protection in exchange for Jizya tax. Almost 13 centuries of peace between Sephardic Jews (8 centuries for Akehanzi Jews in Spain) and Muslims till the mordern events occured. I guess relations between the two religious communities will always fluctuate.



iamnotaparakeet
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20 May 2008, 4:25 pm

Stimshieme wrote:
Khan_Sama wrote:
Assalamu 'alaikum and Shalom alechem have the same meaning. Hebrew and Arabic are both semitic languages, both religions are similar (Muslims view Islam as revealed to Muhammed as the final chapter of the faith, which has been revealed to different prophets such as Adam, Abraham, Jesus, Moses, etc), thus there's some similarity in the greetings. The main reason why Arabic spread from the Hejaz to all over the middle east so quickly is due to the similarities in the semitic languages.


Well I now understand why the north were reluctant to embrace Islam. It is also curious to know that Jews and Muslims lived so well together in the middle-east and now well...things are not so even...


I suppose that Jews who spoke a Indoeuropean language (or in my terminology, "Japhethic") would have more difficultly in communication with people who spoke a Semetic language.

The is very minor if any similarity between:

Assalamu 'alaikum!
Salvete vos!
Salud vosotros!
Stratdaveachem...



Khan_Sama
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20 May 2008, 5:56 pm

After the final Jewish exile, obviously, Hebrew died out as a spoken language. However, the Jews continued to greet each other in Hebrew. It's similar to how non-Arab Muslims greet each other with Asalaamu 'alaikum.



iamnotaparakeet
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20 May 2008, 6:02 pm

Khan_Sama wrote:
After the final Jewish exile, obviously, Hebrew died out as a spoken language. However, the Jews continued to greet each other in Hebrew. It's similar to how non-Arab Muslims greet each other with Asalaamu 'alaikum.


However it continued as a written language with phonetic values given by vowel markings. The vowels and consonants are a bit different between European and non-European Jews, but it is basically the same. Comprehensible mutually are these two dialects, whereas between Hebrew, Aramaic, and Arabic it would be nearly incomprehensible (but not completely?).



oscuria
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20 May 2008, 6:12 pm

Hebrew died as a spoken language but not as a written language. Aljamiado was alive in Spain in which the Jews/Muslims would write in Arabic/Hebrew local languages. Take Ladino for example, which is very related to spanish but written in Hebrew alphabet.


Stimshieme wrote:

Well I now understand why the north were reluctant to embrace Islam. It is also curious to know that Jews and Muslims lived so well together in the middle-east and now well...things are not so even...


They never lived "so well." There were periods of acceptance but not complete peace between the communities.


Khan_Sama wrote:
What exactly do you mean by "the north"? Europe? At the height of the Caliphate of Corduba, 25% of Spain's population was Muslim. They were exiled to Morocco after fall of Corduba. Large Muslim communities exist in Bosnia, Albania, and Kosovo. Islam is the dominant religion in central Asia, with Muslim-majority communities existing as far as Chechenya. Muslim minorities exist in every country.

Relations between Jews and Muslims has always changed, ever since Muhammed started spreading the message. The worst during his lifetime was when the Banu Qurayza, a Jewish tribe in Medina, betrayed the Muslims during the battle of the trench. The Muslims were victorious, all the Qurayza men were executed, and the women & children were sold into slavery (the decision was made by a Jewish tribe loyal to Muhammed, and he gave it his approval). After this incident, relations between the Muslims and Jews mostly remained cordial, with Muslims offering them protection in exchange for Jizya tax. Almost 13 centuries of peace between Sephardic Jews (8 centuries for Akehanzi Jews in Spain) and Muslims till the mordern events occured. I guess relations between the two religious communities will always fluctuate.



Not entirely true.

The Sefardim were the ones in Spain. They weren't always living in peace. The area didn't always value education.

Also, the Ottomans expanded Islam towards the West far greater than the Arabs. Basically, the Mongols/Turks did plenty to advance Islam in their own ways.


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oscuria
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20 May 2008, 6:13 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Khan_Sama wrote:
After the final Jewish exile, obviously, Hebrew died out as a spoken language. However, the Jews continued to greet each other in Hebrew. It's similar to how non-Arab Muslims greet each other with Asalaamu 'alaikum.


However it continued as a written language with phonetic values given by vowel markings. The vowels and consonants are a bit different between European and non-European Jews, but it is basically the same. Comprehensible mutually are these two dialects, whereas between Hebrew, Aramaic, and Arabic it would be nearly incomprehensible (but not completely?).


No one really used the diacritics (vowel markings) except in religions works and that is only to make sure people don't mispronounce the words. It can really do without however..


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20 May 2008, 6:17 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Khan_Sama wrote:
After the final Jewish exile, obviously, Hebrew died out as a spoken language. However, the Jews continued to greet each other in Hebrew. It's similar to how non-Arab Muslims greet each other with Asalaamu 'alaikum.


However it continued as a written language with phonetic values given by vowel markings. The vowels and consonants are a bit different between European and non-European Jews, but it is basically the same. Comprehensible mutually are these two dialects, whereas between Hebrew, Aramaic, and Arabic it would be nearly incomprehensible (but not completely?).



Yes, but the structure of the semitic languages is approximately the same, with many vocabulary similarities. I was merely emphasizing the similarities, like how we may compare English, a Germanic language, to its vocabulary origins in Latin.

oscuria wrote:
No one really used the diacritics (vowel markings) except in religions works and that is only to make sure people don't mispronounce the words. It can really do without however..


Similar markings are used in Qurans for non-Arabic speaking Muslims. We believe it is very essential to pronounce everything correctly.



Last edited by Khan_Sama on 20 May 2008, 6:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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20 May 2008, 6:19 pm

This thread is getting ridiculous and way tooo analytical.

I don't see what's wrong with different beliefs as long as it doesn't harm another's which is what's kind of going on here.


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oscuria
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20 May 2008, 6:44 pm

Khan_Sama wrote:

oscuria wrote:
No one really used the diacritics (vowel markings) except in religions works and that is only to make sure people don't mispronounce the words. It can really do without however..


Similar markings are used in Qurans for non-Arabic speaking Muslims. We believe it is very essential to pronounce everything correctly.



That is what I meant. The diacritics are only used to ensure correct pronunciation, but it is otherwise not necessary.


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iamnotaparakeet
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21 May 2008, 11:32 am

Compare these:

NeverthelessH389 (H853) theseH2088 shall ye notH3808 eatH398 of them that chewH4480 H5927 the cud,H1625 or of them that divideH4480 H6536 the hoof:H6541 as(H853) the camel,H1581 becauseH3588 heH1931 chewethH5927 the cud,H1625 but dividethH6536 notH369 the hoof;H6541 heH1931 is uncleanH2931 unto you. {Leviticus 11:4 KJV+}

אך389 את853 זה2088 לא3808 תאכלו398 ממעלי5927 הגרה1625 וממפרסי6536 הפרסה6541 את853 הגמל1581 כי3588 מעלה5927 גרה1625 הוא1931 ופרסה6541 איננו369 מפריס6536 טמא2931 הוא׃1931
{Leviticus 11:4 HOT+}


الَّا هَذِهِ فَلا تَاكُلُوهَا مِمَّا يَجْتَرُّ وَمِمَّا يَشُقُّ الظِّلْفَ: الْجَمَلَ لانَّهُ يَجْتَرُّ لَكِنَّهُ لا يَشُقُّ ظِلْفا فَهُوَ نَجِسٌ لَكُمْ.
{Leviticus 11:4 SVD}

According to some Somali friends, they said that they are allowed to eat camels? Leviticus 11 may not be accepted by most Christians who claim "freedom from the Law"... but, does God change?