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violet_yoshi
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22 Dec 2008, 2:41 pm

drowbot0181 wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
Chibi_Neko wrote:
ChukoTheWarlike wrote:
this entire thread is sickening in that there hasn't been a word of support or understanding, just crap about how they're ignorant, religiously brainwashed


That's because they are.
They actually believe that this is god's work, if that isn't a case of brainwashing, I don't know what is. One of the girls also fell for it and wants to have kids after kids like her mom.

I can understand it if they just love children that much, the least they could do is be more christ-like and look after the children that are already here, many children need homes.

God should not be given any thanks or praise when a child is born because it is the parents that created it, not god.


God forgives you for that.


And you know this because? And how do you know god is even offended? Such a being would have no right to be offended if the credit (for a baby) was not his. If he wants to claim credit for these 18 children, then let him step forward and do so.
Even if God were real, no person on Earth has any business claiming they are his proxy.


I don't see any point in putting forth the effort in trying to convince any rational thinking from these people. It's like trying to convince a 2 year old Mickey Mouse isn't real, with all the drama, the crying, and the "But he is, HE IS!" that one would expect of a child. Why do you think they refer to religious people as God's children, cause they're adults who behave like children who need God as a surrogate daddy to guide them and make all their decisions for them.



violet_yoshi
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22 Dec 2008, 2:44 pm

release_the_bats wrote:
Yeah, why pass judgment or make assumptions about people you've never even met? How do their beliefs or "lifestyle choices" affect you?

I'm just the resident librarian here - providing information from other sites in response to people's queries. :)


Well there is the perspective that we already are running out of resources on this planet as it is, and it is selfish for someone to say I want a litter, who cares if it affects anyone else or even my children. Who cares they won't get the attention or support they need, cause I want what I want!



drowbot0181
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22 Dec 2008, 2:52 pm

violet_yoshi wrote:
drowbot0181 wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
Chibi_Neko wrote:
ChukoTheWarlike wrote:
this entire thread is sickening in that there hasn't been a word of support or understanding, just crap about how they're ignorant, religiously brainwashed


That's because they are.
They actually believe that this is god's work, if that isn't a case of brainwashing, I don't know what is. One of the girls also fell for it and wants to have kids after kids like her mom.

I can understand it if they just love children that much, the least they could do is be more christ-like and look after the children that are already here, many children need homes.

God should not be given any thanks or praise when a child is born because it is the parents that created it, not god.


God forgives you for that.


And you know this because? And how do you know god is even offended? Such a being would have no right to be offended if the credit (for a baby) was not his. If he wants to claim credit for these 18 children, then let him step forward and do so.
Even if God were real, no person on Earth has any business claiming they are his proxy.


I don't see any point in putting forth the effort in trying to convince any rational thinking from these people. It's like trying to convince a 2 year old Mickey Mouse isn't real, with all the drama, the crying, and the "But he is, HE IS!" that one would expect of a child. Why do you think they refer to religious people as God's children, cause they're adults who behave like children who need God as a surrogate daddy to guide them and make all their decisions for them.


Mickey Mouse forgives you for that. :)



Chibi_Neko
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22 Dec 2008, 2:55 pm

Ragtime wrote:

God forgives you for that.


How would you know?
Better yet, how would you know what I said was a bad thing that would need forgivness?


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Ragtime
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22 Dec 2008, 3:26 pm

Chibi_Neko wrote:
Ragtime wrote:

God forgives you for that.


How would you know?
Better yet, how would you know what I said was a bad thing that would need forgivness?


Quote:
God should not be given any thanks or praise when a child is born because it is the parents that created it, not god.


You falsely presumed absolute knowledge in the above quote, and then used that faux insight to steal credit from the Creator of all life.


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drowbot0181
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22 Dec 2008, 3:45 pm

Ragtime wrote:
Chibi_Neko wrote:
Ragtime wrote:

God forgives you for that.


How would you know?
Better yet, how would you know what I said was a bad thing that would need forgivness?


Quote:
God should not be given any thanks or praise when a child is born because it is the parents that created it, not god.


You falsely presumed absolute knowledge in the above quote, and then used that faux insight to steal credit from the Creator of all life.


So everything we know about human sexual reproduction is faux knowledge?

It was not a false presumption. You have a claim that a supernatural being creates all human life. There is no evidence to support the claim, therefore the default position is to not believe it. I can make the claim that universe-creating pixies make all human babies. Do you believe it?



Chibi_Neko
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22 Dec 2008, 4:03 pm

Ragtime wrote:

You falsely presumed absolute knowledge in the above quote, and then used that faux insight to steal credit from the Creator of all life.


One, there is no way you or anyone can say that god 'really' creates life.
Two, are you saying that you don't know where babies come from? Life is created when the sperm and egg meet, god has nothing to do with this, the parents do.


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22 Dec 2008, 4:17 pm

Chibi_Neko wrote:
Ragtime wrote:

You falsely presumed absolute knowledge in the above quote, and then used that faux insight to steal credit from the Creator of all life.


One, there is no way you or anyone can say that god 'really' creates life.
Two, are you saying that you don't know where babies come from? Life is created when the sperm and egg meet, god has nothing to do with this, the parents do.


The parents are the most immediate cause, but God is the First Cause. My parents, your parents, everybody's parents are all just intermediate links in the chain of causality.



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22 Dec 2008, 4:26 pm

slowmutant wrote:
Chibi_Neko wrote:
Ragtime wrote:

You falsely presumed absolute knowledge in the above quote, and then used that faux insight to steal credit from the Creator of all life.


One, there is no way you or anyone can say that god 'really' creates life.
Two, are you saying that you don't know where babies come from? Life is created when the sperm and egg meet, god has nothing to do with this, the parents do.


The parents are the most immediate cause, but God is the First Cause. My parents, your parents, everybody's parents are all just intermediate links in the chain of causality.


Eventhough I am ALWAYS disappointed by the answer no matter how many times I ask this question, and I've asked it many times, including a few on this board...How do you know this?



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22 Dec 2008, 4:47 pm

drowbot0181 wrote:
slowmutant wrote:
Chibi_Neko wrote:
Ragtime wrote:

You falsely presumed absolute knowledge in the above quote, and then used that faux insight to steal credit from the Creator of all life.


One, there is no way you or anyone can say that god 'really' creates life.
Two, are you saying that you don't know where babies come from? Life is created when the sperm and egg meet, god has nothing to do with this, the parents do.


The parents are the most immediate cause, but God is the First Cause. My parents, your parents, everybody's parents are all just intermediate links in the chain of causality.


Eventhough I am ALWAYS disappointed by the answer no matter how many times I ask this question, and I've asked it many times, including a few on this board...How do you know this?


It makes sense, doesn't it? Picture one of Russian dolls, where each one has another inside it until you get to the smallest doll. But causality regresses infinitely, unlike those Russian dolls. Who gave birth to the mother giving birth? And before her? And before her?

Infinite regression.



drowbot0181
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22 Dec 2008, 4:57 pm

slowmutant wrote:
drowbot0181 wrote:
slowmutant wrote:
Chibi_Neko wrote:
Ragtime wrote:

You falsely presumed absolute knowledge in the above quote, and then used that faux insight to steal credit from the Creator of all life.


One, there is no way you or anyone can say that god 'really' creates life.
Two, are you saying that you don't know where babies come from? Life is created when the sperm and egg meet, god has nothing to do with this, the parents do.


The parents are the most immediate cause, but God is the First Cause. My parents, your parents, everybody's parents are all just intermediate links in the chain of causality.


Eventhough I am ALWAYS disappointed by the answer no matter how many times I ask this question, and I've asked it many times, including a few on this board...How do you know this?


It makes sense, doesn't it? Picture one of Russian dolls, where each one has another inside it until you get to the smallest doll. But causality regresses infinitely, unlike those Russian dolls. Who gave birth to the mother giving birth? And before her? And before her?

Infinite regression.


What you propose isn't infinite regression. You have chosen an arbitrary stopping point and labeled it God. Again, I ask, how do you know this?



Chibi_Neko
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22 Dec 2008, 5:07 pm

drowbot0181 wrote:
What you propose isn't infinite regression. You have chosen an arbitrary stopping point and labeled it God. Again, I ask, how do you know this?


He doesn't which is why he can never answer the question.
Trust me, I asked slowmutant this question many times and never get a response.
The fact of the matter is he doesn't know, he just wont fess up and admit it.


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drowbot0181
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22 Dec 2008, 5:19 pm

Chibi_Neko wrote:
drowbot0181 wrote:
What you propose isn't infinite regression. You have chosen an arbitrary stopping point and labeled it God. Again, I ask, how do you know this?


He doesn't which is why he can never answer the question.
Trust me, I asked slowmutant this question many times and never get a response.
The fact of the matter is he doesn't know, he just wont fess up and admit it.


Unfortunately, I'm sure your right.
I love your signature, btw.



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22 Dec 2008, 6:38 pm

Obviously I don't "know" this. As a human being I can't have any direct knowledge of the Creator. Obviously.

This is the way I see it: If God revealed too much of Himself at any given time/place, it would offset the delicate balance of Free Will vs. Belief in God. That's quite a feat, if you think about it. If God intervenes too much, people will be too heavily influenced by Him. If God intervenes too little, no one will have faith in Him.

If a man claiming to be Jesus the Christ showed up on your doorstep one day and offered to forgive your sins, how believing would you be? Honestly?

And if you were witness to a seemingly impossible "miracle," like the sight of someone being raised from the dead, how quick would you be to deny what your eyes were showing you? Honestly?

There is no visible form God could take which would not be doubted, denied, rationalized away.



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22 Dec 2008, 6:49 pm

violet_yoshi wrote:
release_the_bats wrote:
Yeah, why pass judgment or make assumptions about people you've never even met? How do their beliefs or "lifestyle choices" affect you?

I'm just the resident librarian here - providing information from other sites in response to people's queries. :)


Well there is the perspective that we already are running out of resources on this planet as it is, and it is selfish for someone to say I want a litter, who cares if it affects anyone else or even my children. Who cares they won't get the attention or support they need, cause I want what I want!


That is a good point. But where would you draw the line? Do you believe that people should have no children? Or no more than one or two?

And do you think this should be enforced by law? If so, how would the law be enforced? How would it account for accidental pregnancies? Would there be exceptions for adoptions and foster parenting? And how would it be balanced with our rights to freedom of belief, religion, and religious expression?

(I'm not taking a position here - just asking questions.)



violet_yoshi
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22 Dec 2008, 8:43 pm

release_the_bats wrote:
violet_yoshi wrote:
release_the_bats wrote:
Yeah, why pass judgment or make assumptions about people you've never even met? How do their beliefs or "lifestyle choices" affect you?

I'm just the resident librarian here - providing information from other sites in response to people's queries. :)


Well there is the perspective that we already are running out of resources on this planet as it is, and it is selfish for someone to say I want a litter, who cares if it affects anyone else or even my children. Who cares they won't get the attention or support they need, cause I want what I want!


That is a good point. But where would you draw the line? Do you believe that people should have no children? Or no more than one or two?

And do you think this should be enforced by law? If so, how would the law be enforced? How would it account for accidental pregnancies? Would there be exceptions for adoptions and foster parenting? And how would it be balanced with our rights to freedom of belief, religion, and religious expression?

(I'm not taking a position here - just asking questions.)


Well most people probably would say more than 10 is unreasonable.