Mass shooting at Oregon college: 15+ dead...

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Officially diagnosed, or just "according to mom"?

Dillogic, that's not true in the slightest. In china a few years ago their were a series or knife attacks at an elementary school. The amount of people killed were generally a lot less.

If someone wants to kill someone else, they don't need a gun. All you do by regulating guns is make it harder for them to "stack kills". It's not going to solve the problem. The amount of kills doesn't matter, how they did it doesn't matter becuase you can kill anyone with anything if you know how, so I fail to see how government regulation (which can't even prevent people from downloading illegal music so how's it going to stop illegal guns) will help anything at all.

Disabilities seem to be a protected class at the moment, so even if someone saw an overrepresentation of say, high profile spree killers and mental disorders (ASDs and Schizophrenia seem to be not uncommon), then you can bet it'll be overlooked and all attention will go to the gunz.

Which is wrong, because if there is a connection between specific personality types, mental disorders and spree killings, then it should be investigated for the sake of objectivity and in the name of helping these people.

Gun regulations makes it more difficult, and it has extremely good results in other countries.

His motive was to kill Christians. He had learning disabilities and emotional problems, but I don't know if he was on the spectrum.

Peejay, if you're actually interested in this issue, you should look into the US violent crime rates excluding firearms, which would show you that we have unusually high violence period, even assuming no weapon substitution. You could make the argument that our violence is deadlier due to the greater chance a firearm will be involved, but not that the guns cause the violence, and even then you have to factor in the many defensive gun uses that outnumber criminal gun use.

Sigh…..
I just buzzed though and picked a few to respond to for now.



Even if there was a problem what could effectively be done about it?
Hint: Passing gun laws that don’t work, then passing more when those don’t work isn’t effectively doing anything.

Could I ask (genuinely) has gun ownership in the US increased or decreased? in say the last 30 years?
Does anyone know?

Firstly as I have said in a few other posts I like and admire lots of things about the US. (I have been equally damning about disgraceful British behaviours in the past too)

That’s fine, you can find fault with the British, everyday---and, twice on Sundays---you can’t, however, IMO, knock an ENTIRE country, of which you're not a citizen.

Secondly in this particular respect re gun culture I actually would argue the point that the US is sick, I also know that millions of Americans agree with this point of view including your current President.

Americans can knock their country, if they want----but, a NON-American can't. It's the same principle, IMO, as a black person being able to call another black person a n!gger----but, nobody OUTSIDE of that culture better do it.

Thirdly I did not try to criticise actual individuals but the well documented gun culture and also how incredibly easy it is to acquire guns. (Many people who own guns are themselves a victim of the gun culture by the fact that they feel so vulnerable that they have to carry guns.... its a self feeding problem)

You would have been better-off, IMO, criticizing actual individuals----the crazy people blowin'-away children, people trying to hold a prayer group, people trying to watch a movie in peace, and any OTHER bunch of unarmed citizens!

The statement about gun owners being victims of the gun culture, THEMSELVES, is conjecture----even if you read a bunch of articles that led you to that conclusion, the articles' authors were probably only stating OPINION; and THAT, as-we-all-know, is SUBJECTIVE.

The fact that pro gun lobbyists can still argue that guns are not the problem but the owners are beggars belief.

I don't know what "beggars belief" means----as-far-as-I-know, we don't have that saying, on this side of the pond----so, I can't comment on that; BUT I AGREE with the lobbyists that it's NOT the guns, it's the "owners". I put the word owners in quotes because that's a little sticky, to me. If we're talking about law-abiding citizens who own guns----then, NO, it's NOT the owners (generally speaking, of course). If, however, we're talking about CRIMINALS, being an "owner", most-often that means they have obtained the guns ILlegally (though, I think most of the mass murderers, did NOT), and it IS the "owners".

90 guns for every 100 people in the US ... do you really think this is healthy Are you actually arguing that this is a healthy state of affairs for a leading 1st world country.

Well, here’s the problem with that "statistic", it's possible that it was derived by someone who had an interest in SKEWING the results. Also, just because a survey / study / whatever says that there are 90 guns for every 100 people, that does NOT mean that 90-out-of-100 people OWN guns----even if you count the CRIMINALS----it just means that there are that many guns in the country. If somebody can figure-out a way to keep the gun runners from illegally importing guns from, say, Mexico and Guatemala, then we wouldn't have that many----and, law-abiding citizens aren't buying guns from gun runners.

If you do not take kindly to the blindingly obvious, then I apologise for repeating what countless Americans have been saying for decades.

It is NOT "blindingly obvious" that my entire country is sick!! I don’t care if Americans have been saying things, for CENTURIES----THEY can, a NON-American, can't.

But please do not present me as anti-American just because I disagree with you, I am equally prepared to criticise my own country.

Just because you can / would criticize your OWN country, doesn't give you the right to criticize someone ELSE'S country. If you got on here and said: "Britain is SICK!!", I wouldn’t take kindly to THAT, either, because I don't think you should be denigrating an ENTIRE country, for the actions of a few!

Do you not think that if the US wants to present itself as a moral arbiter and peace keeper of the world (as it often does) then it should tackle this problem . Sure 'people' are the ones who fire guns, the guns themselves are inert; but only if they were freely available.

First-of-all, I don't support our feeling that every time a country sneezes, we feel we have to be there with a tissue to wipe their little noseys, for 'em----I say: "Clean-up your OWN backyard, FIRST"; we've got people in this country standin' in bread lines, so-to-speak, and people (VETERANS, for Heaven's sake) livin'-in TENTS (it's APPALLING); but, here's the thing….. Our wanting to have guns, because it's our RIGHT to have guns, doesn't mean we don't want to be peaceful----again, I'm thinking you're confusing LAW-ABIDING citizens, with criminals / mass shooters; they are NOT the same people (generally speaking). You don't think we should try and help people stop "the bad guys" from nuking a whole bunch of innocent people? That’s a shame!

After the last college shooting some NRA gun nuts were arguing (indefensively) don't cut back on guns but to arm teachers!... unbelievable. I am a teacher.... what a perverse thought that this would be the answer.

I'm a teacher, TOO (currently unemployed, though), and I DON'T think it's perverse! As has been said MANY times on this site, during gun debates, these people who are cuckoo for cocoa puffs (mass shooters) are SPECIFICALLY CHOOSING bunches of people who they can best-bet are unarmed----I'm thinking you're not gonna ever hear about a looney tunes shooter going into a white church in the South, where my people (kin) are, and tryin' to shoot-up people, cuz somebody would put a bullet through their brain, before they had walked 20 feet.

It's got to do with the culture----we fear what we're not used to / what we've never experienced----some Americans experience "bad people", every DAY, and go-on about their business, like nothing happened. Every time I have to go downtown, and make it back, alive, I'm very grateful----but, that has nothing to do with GUNS (I can’t remember when was the last time I've been around a bad person, with a gun), it has to do with KNIVES, and the nut-job people with 'em. Recently, I was on, yet another, bus where a knife fight broke-out in the back of the bus; so, the bus driver pulls-over, and all the black people run for their lives----the little ol' white lady (ME) sittin' in the very first seat on the bus, thinks to herself: "Oh, for God’s sake----AGAIN?! !?", and hopes they don't kill each other, so I can get home in time to watch "Doc Martin" (if they kill each other, then everybody has to stand-around and give statements----TERRIBLY time-consuming). Now, that might sound callous to you, but when you have to put-up with it almost every day of your LIFE, it gets old. It's just like, people aren't NEARLY as sensitive regarding this Oregon shooting as they were to Columbine, for instance----it's NOT that we don’t feel badly for the loss of innocent lives, it's that we only have so many emotions, and we're all-doled-out, when it comes to mass-shootings. You feel violence is horrible because, presumably, you've never experienced it----I think of it, as just another day in the 'hood.

GHunting is one thing as is sports shooting, but I am not talking about that here.
For these messed up F***ks who do all these shootings.....

Now, if you would've said THAT statement----instead of the one about the U.S. being sick----we probably wouldn't be having this conversation. You're putting the blame, where it BELONGS----on these Looney Tune characters (mass-shooters).

.....it is irrelevant whether guns are there special interest or not (its the same in the UK but on a vastly smaller level)

When I used the term "special interest", it was when you used the term "addicted", and I was equating the two. I agree that it doesn’t matter, whether or not, they are addicted to / have a special interest in, guns.

But the American west taught us that guns are a way to get your voice heard... wasn't the colt pistol nicknamed 'the equaliser'..... that is the psychology of what is happening what is happening... no recourse to civilised methods of law... just use the equaliser. Its just the ease that people can do in the US this which is mind boggling.

Yes, the colt was nicknamed "the equalizer"----but, no one can be "taught" something, they don't wanna learn; or, at least, succumb to.

As for "the psychology" and "the ease"----again, if one hasn't lived in the culture, they fear it / are puzzled by it / whatever; but, just because our culture doesn't suit YOU, that just makes it "wrong", for YOU----it doesn't mean it's "wrong", for US.

I am not saying anything that Americans haven't been saying for years... So top the pick on the outsider Brit stuff.. that is just a petty distraction. Have a debate about the shootings and guns in the US.
It is noticeable how defensive some of you are when the right to bear arms comes up. And this 'part of the American make-up' stuff is exactly what you should surely be trying to change not glorify.
You make up your own make up.

Are you actually arguing that the US does not have a gun problem?

I'm not picking on an outsider / British person----as I said, I wouldn't have taken kindly to ANY NON-American saying that----AND, as I've ALSO pointed-out, I wouldn't have taken it kindly if you would've said that, about your OWN country.

As for the "change not glorify": Do you REALLY feel you have the right to tell another country what YOU think is best, for it? Tell ya what, when Britain has a ZERO violent crime rate, and ZERO privately-owned guns (that includes the fox hunters, et al), have your people call my people----until then, please don't denigrate an ENTIRE country, for the actions of a few (the mass shooters); that goes for, ANYBODY'S country!

YES, I'm actually arguing that the U.S. does NOT have a gun problem----we've got a NUT-JOB problem!!

I've read, don't remember where though, that the number of US households owning a firearm has decreased from 50% in 1975 to 30% today. Strangely, the number of Americans who support the Second Amendment as referring to an individual right has actually INCREASED. So, it seems that there are many people who want guns to be legal who don't actually own one. Since there are maybe 300 million guns in America, it's logical to conclude that there are portions of the populace who own lots of guns, maybe hobbyists and veterans, and most people don't own any.