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VegetableMan
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09 Feb 2019, 2:53 pm

AspE wrote:
On the subject of corruption... I'm certain you will be supporting AOC in the future if you agree with the point she is making.





Maybe, if she runs as an Independent.


Hey, if someone like Tulsi Gabbard won the Democratic nomination, I'd gladly reevaluate my opinion. But she stands no chance in hell. The DNC and the political establishment will do everything in its power to take her down.


I'd still love to hear about these Dem Socialists you support. Can you name a couple?


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09 Feb 2019, 4:27 pm

SZWell wrote:
"Centrists" are some of the worse bad faith actors in the entire political spectrum, they only stand to amuse themselves. Can't take any of them seriously

Good column on said people, or "our better angels" when we can't calm ourselves from partisanship



Just watched that last night.


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09 Feb 2019, 4:29 pm

AspE wrote:
On the subject of corruption... I'm certain you will be supporting AOC in the future if you agree with the point she is making.



Very intelligent young woman, not to mention easy on the eyes, too.
I'd love to see those Republicans who try to make her out to be brainless try to match wits with her.


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09 Feb 2019, 4:48 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
Trump kept it up, though....and was a leader in it. That cannot be denied.


It was a political stunt. They happen in every election I'm sure. But I think the thing with this is linking Kenya to racism because most people in Kenya are black. The same as linking Norway to racism because most people in Norway are white. It's always the side that's supposed to be fighting racism, that basis things on race and makes race an issue constantly playing the racism card.


The accusation against Obama's alleged birth place is based entirely on the color of his skin. Had he been an American of Norwegian ancestry there would have been no accusations of being born outside of American soil. Racism against black Americans is what Trump was playing to. Maybe it was just a political stunt in Trump's mind, but it was ugly and had had far reaching ramifications that he had never considered for the future of the country's race relations.


People made similar claims about Ted Cruz (who was born in Canada). Cruz is a white Hispanic.


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VegetableMan
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09 Feb 2019, 4:49 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
SZWell wrote:
"Centrists" are some of the worse bad faith actors in the entire political spectrum, they only stand to amuse themselves. Can't take any of them seriously

Good column on said people, or "our better angels" when we can't calm ourselves from partisanship



Yeah, those darn centrists! Why can't they just swallow the propaganda like good little Americans, and pick a team?*Snicker*


Bill Maher is a joke! He lost all credibility when he came out in favor of the coop in Venezuela.


He is a comedian, so I doubt he minds you calling him a joke. But to suggest he has lost all credibility because you disagree with his opinion on one issue says a lot more about your all or nothing thinking than it does about him. You disagreeing with him on one issues does not make everything he says lack credibility.

I just watched this video and there seems to be an awful lot of credible statements to me.



It's not just about that one issue. The whole premise of the segment is faulty. Republicans may be the "problem," but the Democrats are not actively confronting that problem. They are bought and paid for by the same corporate interests that the Republicans are. All they give is lip service to the American people. The oligarchs are running the show. Everything you see in Congress is nothing more than political theater. It's designed to keep people divided and to perpetuate the 'lesser of two evils" perspective. It's BS. Eight years of Obama should have proven that. But most Americans don't really pay attention to what's going on in government. They just listen to political pundits on the left or the right, and never research anything for themselves.


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09 Feb 2019, 8:22 pm

BaronHarkonnen85 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
Trump kept it up, though....and was a leader in it. That cannot be denied.


It was a political stunt. They happen in every election I'm sure. But I think the thing with this is linking Kenya to racism because most people in Kenya are black. The same as linking Norway to racism because most people in Norway are white. It's always the side that's supposed to be fighting racism, that basis things on race and makes race an issue constantly playing the racism card.


The accusation against Obama's alleged birth place is based entirely on the color of his skin. Had he been an American of Norwegian ancestry there would have been no accusations of being born outside of American soil. Racism against black Americans is what Trump was playing to. Maybe it was just a political stunt in Trump's mind, but it was ugly and had had far reaching ramifications that he had never considered for the future of the country's race relations.


People made similar claims about Ted Cruz (who was born in Canada). Cruz is a white Hispanic.


The only person who seriously tried to make waves about it was Trump, and that stopped because Cruz had dropped out of the race.
Any birtherism directed at Cruz was hardly comparable to what Obama had to endure, with rabid hatred born entirely out of racism directed at him. I don't believe for a minute that same sort of hatred would dog Cruz, especially as he's, as you say, a white Hispanic. That, and he and his old man are not only evangelical fundies when it comes to religion, but are of the dominionist type. As a matter of fact, holding Cruz's preference of religion, which is actually provable, is a far more legitimate reason to vote against him than any birther fantasies.


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09 Feb 2019, 9:32 pm

VegetableMan wrote:


It's not just about that one issue. The whole premise of the segment is faulty. Republicans may be the "problem," but the Democrats are not actively confronting that problem. They are bought and paid for by the same corporate interests that the Republicans are. All they give is lip service to the American people. The oligarchs are running the show. Everything you see in Congress is nothing more than political theater. It's designed to keep people divided and to perpetuate the 'lesser of two evils" perspective. It's BS. Eight years of Obama should have proven that. But most Americans don't really pay attention to what's going on in government. They just listen to political pundits on the left or the right, and never research anything for themselves.

How do you know if an independent isn't "just giving lip service"? They tend to have the luxury of not having a voting record.



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09 Feb 2019, 9:33 pm

You know all they did was ask for a full birth certificate - which took a long time to surface as I recall. Which is why it became a big deal.

The point of pointing out people bringing up Arnold Schwarzenegger and Ted Cruse, is that the natural-born resident issue hasn't been limited to non-white countries.



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09 Feb 2019, 10:08 pm

EzraS wrote:
You know all they did was ask for a full birth certificate - which took a long time to surface as I recall. Which is why it became a big deal.

The point of pointing out people bringing up Arnold Schwarzenegger and Ted Cruse, is that the natural-born resident issue hasn't been limited to non-white countries.



Obama didn't present his birth certificate immediately because the people demanding to see it were pushing a ridiculous, racially based conspiracy theory, devoid of any legitimate reason. Such a demand on any President would in itself be demeaning, especially since the whole reason behind it was because Obama was black.
But if you're so eager to defend the birthers, are you willing to say that what's good for the goose is good for the gander, and insist that Trump release his tax returns? Because there's definite legal ramifications here.


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AspE
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09 Feb 2019, 10:12 pm

Yeah, but they still say it's not real.



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09 Feb 2019, 10:19 pm

AspE wrote:
Yeah, but they still say it's not real.


Yes, thereby proving what racist pieces of sh*t they are.


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09 Feb 2019, 10:39 pm

AspE wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:


It's not just about that one issue. The whole premise of the segment is faulty. Republicans may be the "problem," but the Democrats are not actively confronting that problem. They are bought and paid for by the same corporate interests that the Republicans are. All they give is lip service to the American people. The oligarchs are running the show. Everything you see in Congress is nothing more than political theater. It's designed to keep people divided and to perpetuate the 'lesser of two evils" perspective. It's BS. Eight years of Obama should have proven that. But most Americans don't really pay attention to what's going on in government. They just listen to political pundits on the left or the right, and never research anything for themselves.

How do you know if an independent isn't "just giving lip service"? They tend to have the luxury of not having a voting record.



We never know for sure with politicians. But those who aren't connected to a party that hasn't been bought and payed for are certainly more suspect. Follow the money, connect the dots, and make your own decision. It's not hard to figure out.


Are you not going to answer my question regarding the "Social Democrats" you've voted for? I'd really like to know. I'm assuming you voted for Bernie Sanders in the 2016 primaries, yes?


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10 Feb 2019, 12:03 am

Yes, I voted for Bernie in the primaries. I think Social Democrat is different than Democratic Socialist, but they are similar.



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10 Feb 2019, 2:45 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
You know all they did was ask for a full birth certificate - which took a long time to surface as I recall. Which is why it became a big deal.

The point of pointing out people bringing up Arnold Schwarzenegger and Ted Cruse, is that the natural-born resident issue hasn't been limited to non-white countries.



Obama didn't present his birth certificate immediately because the people demanding to see it were pushing a ridiculous, racially based conspiracy theory, devoid of any legitimate reason. Such a demand on any President would in itself be demeaning, especially since the whole reason behind it was because Obama was black.
But if you're so eager to defend the birthers, are you willing to say that what's good for the goose is good for the gander, and insist that Trump release his tax returns? Because there's definite legal ramifications here.


I'm not defending anyone. I am stating the fact that the natural-born citizen clause has been an issue regarding other politicians. And I don't care whether or not Trump releases his tax returns.



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10 Feb 2019, 3:27 am

EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
You know all they did was ask for a full birth certificate - which took a long time to surface as I recall. Which is why it became a big deal.

The point of pointing out people bringing up Arnold Schwarzenegger and Ted Cruse, is that the natural-born resident issue hasn't been limited to non-white countries.



Obama didn't present his birth certificate immediately because the people demanding to see it were pushing a ridiculous, racially based conspiracy theory, devoid of any legitimate reason. Such a demand on any President would in itself be demeaning, especially since the whole reason behind it was because Obama was black.
But if you're so eager to defend the birthers, are you willing to say that what's good for the goose is good for the gander, and insist that Trump release his tax returns? Because there's definite legal ramifications here.


I'm not defending anyone. I am stating the fact that the natural-born citizen clause has been an issue regarding other politicians. And I don't care whether or not Trump releases his tax returns.


Why not? :?

Do you not see the potential for conflicts of interest?


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10 Feb 2019, 3:40 am

EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
You know all they did was ask for a full birth certificate - which took a long time to surface as I recall. Which is why it became a big deal.

The point of pointing out people bringing up Arnold Schwarzenegger and Ted Cruse, is that the natural-born resident issue hasn't been limited to non-white countries.



Obama didn't present his birth certificate immediately because the people demanding to see it were pushing a ridiculous, racially based conspiracy theory, devoid of any legitimate reason. Such a demand on any President would in itself be demeaning, especially since the whole reason behind it was because Obama was black.
But if you're so eager to defend the birthers, are you willing to say that what's good for the goose is good for the gander, and insist that Trump release his tax returns? Because there's definite legal ramifications here.


I'm not defending anyone. I am stating the fact that the natural-born citizen clause has been an issue regarding other politicians. And I don't care whether or not Trump releases his tax returns.


The clause wasn't used to anywhere the same degree as it was with the Anti-Obama birtherism. The whole point was to delegitimize Obama's Presidency by people who couldn't take having a black man in the White House.
As Trump is refusing to release his tax returns, many would say it displays consciousness of guilt.


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