Cerebral Palsy + DNR order = one pissed off Strapples

Page 6 of 10 [ 159 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10  Next


Do you think parents should be allowed to file DNR on a child under the age of 16
YES 19%  19%  [ 16 ]
NO 81%  81%  [ 67 ]
Total votes : 83

LostInSpace
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Age: 39
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,617
Location: Dixie

25 Dec 2007, 1:00 am

Strapples wrote:
lucy1 wrote:
If she has the cognizance to decide for herself - she should have the right of autonomy, the choice should be hers, no one elses.

there are occasions when parents do need to decide when to stop life resuscitating interventions - so - in my mind it is not a yes and no answer - for this reason I can't vote in your poll.


i respect your abstainence from the voting procedures...

it is unknown if she has severe cognitive problems, although just knowing from the news record it does not seem like that due to the fact that cerebral palsy its self does not cause cognitive problems...


Well, in one of the captions on the pictures, it says that the therapist is teaching her to recognize shapes. If a second grader is still learning shapes, she is probably pretty cognitively impaired. Even a cognitively intact second grader probably couldn't understand the implications of a DNR, and I really doubt this kid would, unfortunately. It's all on the parents.

I do disagree with their decision by the way. By signing the DNR, they're basically saying that there is no point to resucitating her. If she can still enjoy life, why allow her to die? I can understand signing a DNR if she had deteriorated to a certain point where she was being resucitated constantly and was never really conscious, but clearly that is not the case. My mom has a kid in her school district (she is a school psychologist) who is anencephalic, meaning the only part of his brain he has is the brainstem. He is on a feeding tube and is obviously unable to communicate, and it's unknown if he understands any of what happens around him, but his family loves him and cares for him very well, despite his frequent, life-threatening seizures (when they go on vacation, they always have to take into account how long it would take to airlift him to a hospital during a seizure). I just don't get why these girl's parents are so ready to give up (apparently- obviously it's not possible to know too much about the situation just from one article).



Last edited by LostInSpace on 25 Dec 2007, 1:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

sinsboldly
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Nov 2006
Gender: Female
Posts: 13,488
Location: Bandon-by-the-Sea, Oregon

25 Dec 2007, 1:01 am

Strapples wrote:
Spokane_Girl wrote:
I had troubles following what your post was about. What exactly did Katie's parents do?

if you read the news story the parents filed for a DNR order... and the DNR got passed in a court of law making it valid!! ! :(


I have a DNR order, why? is there something wrong with that?

Merle



LostInSpace
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Age: 39
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,617
Location: Dixie

25 Dec 2007, 1:06 am

sinsboldly wrote:
Strapples wrote:
Spokane_Girl wrote:
I had troubles following what your post was about. What exactly did Katie's parents do?

if you read the news story the parents filed for a DNR order... and the DNR got passed in a court of law making it valid!! ! :(


I have a DNR order, why? is there something wrong with that?

Merle


Only if your parents filed it for you while you were a minor (and assuming they decided it *for* you). That's the issue for this thread.



sinsboldly
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Nov 2006
Gender: Female
Posts: 13,488
Location: Bandon-by-the-Sea, Oregon

25 Dec 2007, 1:14 am

LostInSpace wrote:
sinsboldly wrote:
Strapples wrote:
Spokane_Girl wrote:
I had troubles following what your post was about. What exactly did Katie's parents do?

if you read the news story the parents filed for a DNR order... and the DNR got passed in a court of law making it valid!! ! :(


I have a DNR order, why? is there something wrong with that?

Merle


Only if your parents filed it for you while you were a minor (and assuming they decided it *for* you). That's the issue for this thread.


oh, well, no then. My parents committed me to a State Institution that applied electroshock "therapy," so I don't qualify. They didn't have 'DNR' back then.

Merle



skahthic
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 10 May 2007
Age: 51
Gender: Female
Posts: 837
Location: Florida

25 Dec 2007, 3:16 pm

I've worked with mentally/physically challenged kids ( and adults). I've worked with the terminally ill, as well.
I do believe in DNR's where appropriate. But not when they are not appropriate.
Katie looks like a smiling, happy girl in the picture. Even I can see that. She does not appear to be suffering in the picture. She may be handicapped, but so are many people. There are many issues here.
If Katie were suffering to the point that resuscitation would only prolong pain/suffering and delay the inevitable ( a death in the near future), I'd say a DNR would be ok. And I HAVE seen kids who have been allowed to die--- but these were kids with terminal cancers/ conditions and such where it would be inhumane to prolong their suffering when death is inevitable. The same goes for adults, too.
Elderly people who "give up" and stop eating ( usually Alzheimer's disease or something similar) and those elderly/not elderly with progressive fatal disorders should also be allowed the right to die if they should wish--- they should also be made aware of the risks involved. CPR done on the ribs of a 97 year old will likely cause multiple fractures of the ribcage and will likely result in hospitalization until death anyway--- reality must be taken into consideration here.
But these are specific instances where CPR/ Resuscitation would have little/no bearing on the outcome and would only prolong pain/suffering.
Katie looks to be happy. She does not appear to be suffering. She has young bones. She does not have a progressive fatal disorder. Why the DNR?



Strapples
Supporting Member
Supporting Member

User avatar

Joined: 30 Nov 2007
Age: 33
Gender: Male
Posts: 17,861
Location: Chicago Area IL (FAR FROM AUTISM SPEAKS)

25 Dec 2007, 3:41 pm

skahthic wrote:
I've worked with mentally/physically challenged kids ( and adults). I've worked with the terminally ill, as well.
I do believe in DNR's where appropriate. But not when they are not appropriate.
Katie looks like a smiling, happy girl in the picture. Even I can see that. She does not appear to be suffering in the picture. She may be handicapped, but so are many people. There are many issues here.
If Katie were suffering to the point that resuscitation would only prolong pain/suffering and delay the inevitable ( a death in the near future), I'd say a DNR would be ok. And I HAVE seen kids who have been allowed to die--- but these were kids with terminal cancers/ conditions and such where it would be inhumane to prolong their suffering when death is inevitable. The same goes for adults, too.
Elderly people who "give up" and stop eating ( usually Alzheimer's disease or something similar) and those elderly/not elderly with progressive fatal disorders should also be allowed the right to die if they should wish--- they should also be made aware of the risks involved. CPR done on the ribs of a 97 year old will likely cause multiple fractures of the ribcage and will likely result in hospitalization until death anyway--- reality must be taken into consideration here.
But these are specific instances where CPR/ Resuscitation would have little/no bearing on the outcome and would only prolong pain/suffering.
Katie looks to be happy. She does not appear to be suffering. She has young bones. She does not have a progressive fatal disorder. Why the DNR?


i find this to be a pretty absurd DNR too... the fact its being done on someone so young and viable is not acceptable


_________________
check out my website at {redacted by admin - domain taken over and points to a porn site}

When in doubt, ask an autistic. Chances are, they're obsessed with what you need to know. :roll:

Autism Speaks will NEVER speak for me

CLASSIC AUTISM


sinsboldly
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Nov 2006
Gender: Female
Posts: 13,488
Location: Bandon-by-the-Sea, Oregon

25 Dec 2007, 3:43 pm

Strapples wrote:
skahthic wrote:
I've worked with mentally/physically challenged kids ( and adults). I've worked with the terminally ill, as well.
I do believe in DNR's where appropriate. But not when they are not appropriate.
Katie looks like a smiling, happy girl in the picture. Even I can see that. She does not appear to be suffering in the picture. She may be handicapped, but so are many people. There are many issues here.
If Katie were suffering to the point that resuscitation would only prolong pain/suffering and delay the inevitable ( a death in the near future), I'd say a DNR would be ok. And I HAVE seen kids who have been allowed to die--- but these were kids with terminal cancers/ conditions and such where it would be inhumane to prolong their suffering when death is inevitable. The same goes for adults, too.
Elderly people who "give up" and stop eating ( usually Alzheimer's disease or something similar) and those elderly/not elderly with progressive fatal disorders should also be allowed the right to die if they should wish--- they should also be made aware of the risks involved. CPR done on the ribs of a 97 year old will likely cause multiple fractures of the ribcage and will likely result in hospitalization until death anyway--- reality must be taken into consideration here.
But these are specific instances where CPR/ Resuscitation would have little/no bearing on the outcome and would only prolong pain/suffering.
Katie looks to be happy. She does not appear to be suffering. She has young bones. She does not have a progressive fatal disorder. Why the DNR?


i find this to be a pretty absurd DNR too... the fact its being done on someone so young and viable is not acceptable


Why? Are you of the opinion that a soul only lives one lifetime in a body? Don't you think that colors your response here? If you had another opinion of life and death of the body, don't you think your response might be different?

Merle



Strapples
Supporting Member
Supporting Member

User avatar

Joined: 30 Nov 2007
Age: 33
Gender: Male
Posts: 17,861
Location: Chicago Area IL (FAR FROM AUTISM SPEAKS)

25 Dec 2007, 3:45 pm

sinsboldly wrote:
Strapples wrote:
skahthic wrote:
I've worked with mentally/physically challenged kids ( and adults). I've worked with the terminally ill, as well.
I do believe in DNR's where appropriate. But not when they are not appropriate.
Katie looks like a smiling, happy girl in the picture. Even I can see that. She does not appear to be suffering in the picture. She may be handicapped, but so are many people. There are many issues here.
If Katie were suffering to the point that resuscitation would only prolong pain/suffering and delay the inevitable ( a death in the near future), I'd say a DNR would be ok. And I HAVE seen kids who have been allowed to die--- but these were kids with terminal cancers/ conditions and such where it would be inhumane to prolong their suffering when death is inevitable. The same goes for adults, too.
Elderly people who "give up" and stop eating ( usually Alzheimer's disease or something similar) and those elderly/not elderly with progressive fatal disorders should also be allowed the right to die if they should wish--- they should also be made aware of the risks involved. CPR done on the ribs of a 97 year old will likely cause multiple fractures of the ribcage and will likely result in hospitalization until death anyway--- reality must be taken into consideration here.
But these are specific instances where CPR/ Resuscitation would have little/no bearing on the outcome and would only prolong pain/suffering.
Katie looks to be happy. She does not appear to be suffering. She has young bones. She does not have a progressive fatal disorder. Why the DNR?


i find this to be a pretty absurd DNR too... the fact its being done on someone so young and viable is not acceptable


Why? Are you of the opinion that a soul only lives one lifetime in a body? Don't you think that colors your response here? If you had another opinion of life and death of the body, don't you think your response might be different?

Merle


i want you to look at that picture... look at it like she is YOUR daughter... i dont know but every time i look at it that way i say i want her to receive any medical care that is necessary provided it does not produce long term bad effects...

she does NOT have a terminal disorder...

terminally ill children DNR ok fine... but when your not terminal and your a child this young a DNR is pretty much unacceptable to me


_________________
check out my website at {redacted by admin - domain taken over and points to a porn site}

When in doubt, ask an autistic. Chances are, they're obsessed with what you need to know. :roll:

Autism Speaks will NEVER speak for me

CLASSIC AUTISM


sinsboldly
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Nov 2006
Gender: Female
Posts: 13,488
Location: Bandon-by-the-Sea, Oregon

25 Dec 2007, 4:32 pm

Strapples wrote:
sinsboldly wrote:
Strapples wrote:
skahthic wrote:
I've worked with mentally/physically challenged kids ( and adults). I've worked with the terminally ill, as well.
I do believe in DNR's where appropriate. But not when they are not appropriate.
Katie looks like a smiling, happy girl in the picture. Even I can see that. She does not appear to be suffering in the picture. She may be handicapped, but so are many people. There are many issues here.
If Katie were suffering to the point that resuscitation would only prolong pain/suffering and delay the inevitable ( a death in the near future), I'd say a DNR would be ok. And I HAVE seen kids who have been allowed to die--- but these were kids with terminal cancers/ conditions and such where it would be inhumane to prolong their suffering when death is inevitable. The same goes for adults, too.
Elderly people who "give up" and stop eating ( usually Alzheimer's disease or something similar) and those elderly/not elderly with progressive fatal disorders should also be allowed the right to die if they should wish--- they should also be made aware of the risks involved. CPR done on the ribs of a 97 year old will likely cause multiple fractures of the ribcage and will likely result in hospitalization until death anyway--- reality must be taken into consideration here.
But these are specific instances where CPR/ Resuscitation would have little/no bearing on the outcome and would only prolong pain/suffering.
Katie looks to be happy. She does not appear to be suffering. She has young bones. She does not have a progressive fatal disorder. Why the DNR?


i find this to be a pretty absurd DNR too... the fact its being done on someone so young and viable is not acceptable


Why? Are you of the opinion that a soul only lives one lifetime in a body? Don't you think that colors your response here? If you had another opinion of life and death of the body, don't you think your response might be different?

Merle


i want you to look at that picture... look at it like she is YOUR daughter... i dont know but every time i look at it that way i say i want her to receive any medical care that is necessary provided it does not produce long term bad effects...

she does NOT have a terminal disorder...

terminally ill children DNR ok fine... but when your not terminal and your a child this young a DNR is pretty much unacceptable to me


Yes, you have made your own opinions on the girl in the picture very clear, Strapples. However I asked a question about your life view (i.e. one life in one body per soul vs more than one life in another body per soul) and how it drives your current opinion. If you do not care to address my question that is, of course, perfectly OK.
However to answer my question by offering a response calculated to emotionally manipulate the same conclusion that you arrive at will not actually happen with me because I have a different opinion about life (and death) than you do. And to that difference I was offering the question.

thank you,

Merle



Strapples
Supporting Member
Supporting Member

User avatar

Joined: 30 Nov 2007
Age: 33
Gender: Male
Posts: 17,861
Location: Chicago Area IL (FAR FROM AUTISM SPEAKS)

25 Dec 2007, 4:34 pm

sinsboldly wrote:
Strapples wrote:
sinsboldly wrote:
Strapples wrote:
skahthic wrote:
I've worked with mentally/physically challenged kids ( and adults). I've worked with the terminally ill, as well.
I do believe in DNR's where appropriate. But not when they are not appropriate.
Katie looks like a smiling, happy girl in the picture. Even I can see that. She does not appear to be suffering in the picture. She may be handicapped, but so are many people. There are many issues here.
If Katie were suffering to the point that resuscitation would only prolong pain/suffering and delay the inevitable ( a death in the near future), I'd say a DNR would be ok. And I HAVE seen kids who have been allowed to die--- but these were kids with terminal cancers/ conditions and such where it would be inhumane to prolong their suffering when death is inevitable. The same goes for adults, too.
Elderly people who "give up" and stop eating ( usually Alzheimer's disease or something similar) and those elderly/not elderly with progressive fatal disorders should also be allowed the right to die if they should wish--- they should also be made aware of the risks involved. CPR done on the ribs of a 97 year old will likely cause multiple fractures of the ribcage and will likely result in hospitalization until death anyway--- reality must be taken into consideration here.
But these are specific instances where CPR/ Resuscitation would have little/no bearing on the outcome and would only prolong pain/suffering.
Katie looks to be happy. She does not appear to be suffering. She has young bones. She does not have a progressive fatal disorder. Why the DNR?


i find this to be a pretty absurd DNR too... the fact its being done on someone so young and viable is not acceptable


Why? Are you of the opinion that a soul only lives one lifetime in a body? Don't you think that colors your response here? If you had another opinion of life and death of the body, don't you think your response might be different?

Merle


i want you to look at that picture... look at it like she is YOUR daughter... i dont know but every time i look at it that way i say i want her to receive any medical care that is necessary provided it does not produce long term bad effects...

she does NOT have a terminal disorder...

terminally ill children DNR ok fine... but when your not terminal and your a child this young a DNR is pretty much unacceptable to me


Yes, you have made your own opinions on the girl in the picture very clear, Strapples. However I asked a question about your life view (i.e. one life in one body per soul vs more than one life in another body per soul) and how it drives your current opinion. If you do not care to address my question that is, of course, perfectly OK.
However to answer my question by offering a response calculated to emotionally manipulate the same conclusion that you arrive at will not actually happen with me because I have a different opinion about life (and death) than you do. And to that difference I was offering the question.

thank you,

Merle


sorry... im not much of a spiritualist... so i cant really answer the question...


_________________
check out my website at {redacted by admin - domain taken over and points to a porn site}

When in doubt, ask an autistic. Chances are, they're obsessed with what you need to know. :roll:

Autism Speaks will NEVER speak for me

CLASSIC AUTISM


sinsboldly
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Nov 2006
Gender: Female
Posts: 13,488
Location: Bandon-by-the-Sea, Oregon

25 Dec 2007, 4:56 pm

Strapples wrote:
sinsboldly wrote:
Strapples wrote:
sinsboldly wrote:
Strapples wrote:
skahthic wrote:
I've worked with mentally/physically challenged kids ( and adults). I've worked with the terminally ill, as well.
I do believe in DNR's where appropriate. But not when they are not appropriate.
Katie looks like a smiling, happy girl in the picture. Even I can see that. She does not appear to be suffering in the picture. She may be handicapped, but so are many people. There are many issues here.
If Katie were suffering to the point that resuscitation would only prolong pain/suffering and delay the inevitable ( a death in the near future), I'd say a DNR would be ok. And I HAVE seen kids who have been allowed to die--- but these were kids with terminal cancers/ conditions and such where it would be inhumane to prolong their suffering when death is inevitable. The same goes for adults, too.
Elderly people who "give up" and stop eating ( usually Alzheimer's disease or something similar) and those elderly/not elderly with progressive fatal disorders should also be allowed the right to die if they should wish--- they should also be made aware of the risks involved. CPR done on the ribs of a 97 year old will likely cause multiple fractures of the ribcage and will likely result in hospitalization until death anyway--- reality must be taken into consideration here.
But these are specific instances where CPR/ Resuscitation would have little/no bearing on the outcome and would only prolong pain/suffering.
Katie looks to be happy. She does not appear to be suffering. She has young bones. She does not have a progressive fatal disorder. Why the DNR?


i find this to be a pretty absurd DNR too... the fact its being done on someone so young and viable is not acceptable


Why? Are you of the opinion that a soul only lives one lifetime in a body? Don't you think that colors your response here? If you had another opinion of life and death of the body, don't you think your response might be different?

Merle


i want you to look at that picture... look at it like she is YOUR daughter... i dont know but every time i look at it that way i say i want her to receive any medical care that is necessary provided it does not produce long term bad effects...

she does NOT have a terminal disorder...

terminally ill children DNR ok fine... but when your not terminal and your a child this young a DNR is pretty much unacceptable to me


Yes, you have made your own opinions on the girl in the picture very clear, Strapples. However I asked a question about your life view (i.e. one life in one body per soul vs more than one life in another body per soul) and how it drives your current opinion. If you do not care to address my question that is, of course, perfectly OK.
However to answer my question by offering a response calculated to emotionally manipulate the same conclusion that you arrive at will not actually happen with me because I have a different opinion about life (and death) than you do. And to that difference I was offering the question.

thank you,

Merle


sorry... im not much of a spiritualist... so i cant really answer the question...


oh. Well, I am not a spiritualist either, so I don't know what that has to do with it. I am more of a Buddist/Celtic/Hindu sorta person.

Merle



PersonalEnigma
Tufted Titmouse
Tufted Titmouse

User avatar

Joined: 2 Dec 2007
Gender: Female
Posts: 32

27 Dec 2007, 12:41 am

Well, first of all I am speaking to this from personal experience. My brother had severe CP - not as bad as it gets, but pretty bad. He passed away from heat stroke and pneumonia when he was 19 (I was 17).

Despite having CP he was generally a very positive person who had a great sense of humour and tons of personality. He enjoyed writing stories and went to high school where he audited several courses. He even had a girlfriend :wink: If he were give the option of a DNR he would have refused.

On the other hand his life was not easy. He could not eat anything by mouth. He was fed through a J tube (goes in through the stomach wall into the beginning of the small intestine) at night with a machine that slowly added the liquid diet throughout the night. Because of this his stomach was always empty and he often felt as though he was starving. He could not speak at all and needed to either use a bliss board at which he would would look (his only good control was his eyes and somewhat his head) to tell us things (we'd guess where he was looking) or would type things on the computer by using a head switch and a scan (took forever to write a single word). He could not walk, he could not go to the bathroom on his own (had to use a urinal and got an enema daily to take care of other things), and would never be able to even remotely take care of himself.

My parents worked very hard to tale care of my brother. It wasn't easy to say the least. But at least he was intelligent and despite his disabilities he had good health. I don't know how they would have coped if he also was mentally deficient and had other health problems. Certainly many of the most severe cases of CP include problems beyond what my brother had and they were thankful that he wasn't as badly off as many kids they had met.

I don't know what I would do in the situation everyone has been talking about. It depends a lot on the girl's specific issues. The photo that was taken could have been taken a while ago. It could have been on one of her rare "good days" or it could be an accurate picture of what she's normally like. We don't know what complications she has related to her CP - for all we know the muscular issues may extend beyond the voluntary muscular control. We don't know if she has other issues that are not necessarily caused by CP, but are aggrivated by it.

DNRs have their place. There are definitely some situations where a child needs a DNR. On the other hand it should be a last resort when there is really no hope in the long run. NOt knowing all the details it is impossible to say if a DNR is right in this situation.

As for offering to adopt this girl - you really don't know what you are suggesting. Caring for a child with severe CP is NOT easy. This girl is in school for a variety of reasons - one is to give the parents a break, another is to give this girl as "normal" a life as possible. Keeping her home to homeschool her would be pointless. I do not in any way think that these parents are trying to get out of caring for their daughter. I am sure that they have her best interests in mind. They may be wrong, but they most likely have the right reasons in their hearts. Having CP can definitely be a painful, unpleasant life. My brother used to vomit 6-10 times a day every day due to reflux issues that even corrective surgery couldn't completely fix. He often felt as though he was startving to death, even though he was getting enough nutrients for his bodily needs. Many other people with CP get severe cramping due to their tense muscle tone. And then there is the fact that with severe CP there is no privacy in life - nothing about your bodily functions is private.

There isn't a lot of future available for a person with severe CP. Maybe as technology improves that may change, but for now it is still almost impossible for a person with severe CP to have anything close to a normal life. Certainly they can live for many years and they don't normally deteriorate, but it isn't easy either.



Strapples
Supporting Member
Supporting Member

User avatar

Joined: 30 Nov 2007
Age: 33
Gender: Male
Posts: 17,861
Location: Chicago Area IL (FAR FROM AUTISM SPEAKS)

27 Dec 2007, 9:05 am

sinsboldly wrote:
Strapples wrote:
sinsboldly wrote:
Strapples wrote:
sinsboldly wrote:
Strapples wrote:
skahthic wrote:
I've worked with mentally/physically challenged kids ( and adults). I've worked with the terminally ill, as well.
I do believe in DNR's where appropriate. But not when they are not appropriate.
Katie looks like a smiling, happy girl in the picture. Even I can see that. She does not appear to be suffering in the picture. She may be handicapped, but so are many people. There are many issues here.
If Katie were suffering to the point that resuscitation would only prolong pain/suffering and delay the inevitable ( a death in the near future), I'd say a DNR would be ok. And I HAVE seen kids who have been allowed to die--- but these were kids with terminal cancers/ conditions and such where it would be inhumane to prolong their suffering when death is inevitable. The same goes for adults, too.
Elderly people who "give up" and stop eating ( usually Alzheimer's disease or something similar) and those elderly/not elderly with progressive fatal disorders should also be allowed the right to die if they should wish--- they should also be made aware of the risks involved. CPR done on the ribs of a 97 year old will likely cause multiple fractures of the ribcage and will likely result in hospitalization until death anyway--- reality must be taken into consideration here.
But these are specific instances where CPR/ Resuscitation would have little/no bearing on the outcome and would only prolong pain/suffering.
Katie looks to be happy. She does not appear to be suffering. She has young bones. She does not have a progressive fatal disorder. Why the DNR?


i find this to be a pretty absurd DNR too... the fact its being done on someone so young and viable is not acceptable


Why? Are you of the opinion that a soul only lives one lifetime in a body? Don't you think that colors your response here? If you had another opinion of life and death of the body, don't you think your response might be different?

Merle


i want you to look at that picture... look at it like she is YOUR daughter... i dont know but every time i look at it that way i say i want her to receive any medical care that is necessary provided it does not produce long term bad effects...

she does NOT have a terminal disorder...

terminally ill children DNR ok fine... but when your not terminal and your a child this young a DNR is pretty much unacceptable to me


Yes, you have made your own opinions on the girl in the picture very clear, Strapples. However I asked a question about your life view (i.e. one life in one body per soul vs more than one life in another body per soul) and how it drives your current opinion. If you do not care to address my question that is, of course, perfectly OK.
However to answer my question by offering a response calculated to emotionally manipulate the same conclusion that you arrive at will not actually happen with me because I have a different opinion about life (and death) than you do. And to that difference I was offering the question.

thank you,

Merle


sorry... im not much of a spiritualist... so i cant really answer the question...


oh. Well, I am not a spiritualist either, so I don't know what that has to do with it. I am more of a Buddist/Celtic/Hindu sorta person.

Merle


i am completely non religious... i just celebrate hanukkah and christmas because my mom is jewish and dad is catholic... but i dont go to church or any of that...


_________________
check out my website at {redacted by admin - domain taken over and points to a porn site}

When in doubt, ask an autistic. Chances are, they're obsessed with what you need to know. :roll:

Autism Speaks will NEVER speak for me

CLASSIC AUTISM


Strapples
Supporting Member
Supporting Member

User avatar

Joined: 30 Nov 2007
Age: 33
Gender: Male
Posts: 17,861
Location: Chicago Area IL (FAR FROM AUTISM SPEAKS)

27 Dec 2007, 9:15 am

PersonalEnigma wrote:
Well, first of all I am speaking to this from personal experience. My brother had severe CP - not as bad as it gets, but pretty bad. He passed away from heat stroke and pneumonia when he was 19 (I was 17).

Despite having CP he was generally a very positive person who had a great sense of humour and tons of personality. He enjoyed writing stories and went to high school where he audited several courses. He even had a girlfriend :wink: If he were give the option of a DNR he would have refused.

On the other hand his life was not easy. He could not eat anything by mouth. He was fed through a J tube (goes in through the stomach wall into the beginning of the small intestine) at night with a machine that slowly added the liquid diet throughout the night. Because of this his stomach was always empty and he often felt as though he was starving. He could not speak at all and needed to either use a bliss board at which he would would look (his only good control was his eyes and somewhat his head) to tell us things (we'd guess where he was looking) or would type things on the computer by using a head switch and a scan (took forever to write a single word). He could not walk, he could not go to the bathroom on his own (had to use a urinal and got an enema daily to take care of other things), and would never be able to even remotely take care of himself.

My parents worked very hard to tale care of my brother. It wasn't easy to say the least. But at least he was intelligent and despite his disabilities he had good health. I don't know how they would have coped if he also was mentally deficient and had other health problems. Certainly many of the most severe cases of CP include problems beyond what my brother had and they were thankful that he wasn't as badly off as many kids they had met.

I don't know what I would do in the situation everyone has been talking about. It depends a lot on the girl's specific issues. The photo that was taken could have been taken a while ago. It could have been on one of her rare "good days" or it could be an accurate picture of what she's normally like. We don't know what complications she has related to her CP - for all we know the muscular issues may extend beyond the voluntary muscular control. We don't know if she has other issues that are not necessarily caused by CP, but are aggrivated by it.

DNRs have their place. There are definitely some situations where a child needs a DNR. On the other hand it should be a last resort when there is really no hope in the long run. NOt knowing all the details it is impossible to say if a DNR is right in this situation.

As for offering to adopt this girl - you really don't know what you are suggesting. Caring for a child with severe CP is NOT easy. This girl is in school for a variety of reasons - one is to give the parents a break, another is to give this girl as "normal" a life as possible. Keeping her home to homeschool her would be pointless. I do not in any way think that these parents are trying to get out of caring for their daughter. I am sure that they have her best interests in mind. They may be wrong, but they most likely have the right reasons in their hearts. Having CP can definitely be a painful, unpleasant life. My brother used to vomit 6-10 times a day every day due to reflux issues that even corrective surgery couldn't completely fix. He often felt as though he was startving to death, even though he was getting enough nutrients for his bodily needs. Many other people with CP get severe cramping due to their tense muscle tone. And then there is the fact that with severe CP there is no privacy in life - nothing about your bodily functions is private.

There isn't a lot of future available for a person with severe CP. Maybe as technology improves that may change, but for now it is still almost impossible for a person with severe CP to have anything close to a normal life. Certainly they can live for many years and they don't normally deteriorate, but it isn't easy either.


there are too many personal references for me to create a generalized response though there is something i will respond to...

"There isn't a lot of future available for a person with severe CP. Maybe as technology improves that may change, but for now it is still almost impossible for a person with severe CP to have anything close to a normal life. Certainly they can live for many years and they don't normally deteriorate, but it isn't easy either" appalls me... i have a progressive condition (probably SMA) that is very quickly advancing. and i will likely be in a very similar situation to severe CP. that does not mean im going to sit there in my powerchair thinking "theres no future theres no future" there is a future for EVERYONE, people with diseases and disabilities like SMA and CP just have to work a lot harder to CREATE a future for themselves, unlike normal people who can go out and "get" a future we have to CREATE one from thin air.


_________________
check out my website at {redacted by admin - domain taken over and points to a porn site}

When in doubt, ask an autistic. Chances are, they're obsessed with what you need to know. :roll:

Autism Speaks will NEVER speak for me

CLASSIC AUTISM


eScential
Snowy Owl
Snowy Owl

User avatar

Joined: 29 Oct 2007
Gender: Female
Posts: 164
Location: geosynchronous orbit

27 Dec 2007, 8:02 pm

I voted 'no' but for infants and maybe up to 5, I think the parents need that right. They won't always use the right properly, yet they are in the position to choose. The right should not be allow in cases where it is for parental convenience as it appears in this case. Any child that can reason and provide input into quality of life issues, should be allowed to choose life.


_________________
There are two kinds of restrictions upon human liberty--the restraint of law and that of custom. No written law has ever been more binding than unwritten custom supported by public opinion.
C.C.Catt


Strapples
Supporting Member
Supporting Member

User avatar

Joined: 30 Nov 2007
Age: 33
Gender: Male
Posts: 17,861
Location: Chicago Area IL (FAR FROM AUTISM SPEAKS)

27 Dec 2007, 8:07 pm

eScential wrote:
I voted 'no' but for infants and maybe up to 5, I think the parents need that right. They won't always use the right properly, yet they are in the position to choose. The right should not be allow in cases where it is for parental convenience as it appears in this case. Any child that can reason and provide input into quality of life issues, should be allowed to choose life.


personally your opinion changes me SLIGHTLY... i think that DNRs should not be easy to acquire like this... they should be put through the court and a full grand jury (50 randomly selected people from the public impartial to the situation) shall be put up to vote along with the judge...


_________________
check out my website at {redacted by admin - domain taken over and points to a porn site}

When in doubt, ask an autistic. Chances are, they're obsessed with what you need to know. :roll:

Autism Speaks will NEVER speak for me

CLASSIC AUTISM