Why arethe Israelis allowed to get away with such injustice?

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29 Sep 2008, 7:35 am

I did not say that. I said that this is what we've been instructed to do. What we do or not is optional. We shall have to answer to Allah (SWT) on the day of judgement for all our deeds.

Quote:

even the muslims disagree on which version of the koran is the true one

There is only one version.

Quote:

So tell me, which of these books should I reject, and which of them is the true word of god? And how do you know this, other than to say that this is what you have been told?

That is your choice. I personally would advise the Qur'an, should you wish to read it. Since you've rejected religion, as I did so in the past, I guess it wouldn't matter whether you read it or not.

I believe the Qur'an is the true word of Allah (SWT). I have read the bible (I used to attend a Christian school, and I'm currently in a Catholic college), I have read a few vedas, I have read a bit of the Tao te Ching. I know this, because the Qur'an is the only holy book that does not contradict science, which makes sense, which gives me Iman, which gives me noor, and instructs me to lead a proper, moral way of life.

You can continue to argue with me if you wish, I am not here to argue, I am just here to defend my faith against baseless accusations. I am nor here to convert, nor am I here to enforce the ideals of my religion over your beliefs. I believe in complete freedom of choice.

jrknothead
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29 Sep 2008, 7:43 am

The qur'an does not contradict science? What drugs are you on?

Does the Qur'an not describe miracles, events that supposedly have happened that are scientifically impossible? How is that not a contradiction of science?

Khan_Sama
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29 Sep 2008, 8:09 am

http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/

jrknothead
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29 Sep 2008, 8:23 am

ok, i have a link too...

http://www.bible.ca/islam/islam-quran-changed-20-versions.htm

jrknothead
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29 Sep 2008, 8:32 am

btw, that link you gave me tried to put a trojan horse virus onto my computer... no fair playing dirty...

Khan_Sama
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29 Sep 2008, 8:37 am

Yes, I have read bible.ca too.

http://www.submission.org/quran/warsh.html

There were many more links, I need to look for them, however, it's been a very long time since I read about it.

It did? I got no such trojan. o.o

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29 Sep 2008, 9:37 am

Khan_Sama wrote:

As for the mention of Jerusalem in the noble Quran, http://islam.about.com/od/jerusalem/a/quds.htm The specific verses mentioning change of the Qibla from Jerusalem are 2:142 to 2:144.

"It is Jerusalem that Muhammad (peace be upon him) visited during his night journey and ascension (called Isra' and Mi'raj). In one evening, the angel Gabriel miraculously took the Prophet from the Sacred Mosque in Mecca to the Furthest Mosque (Al-Aqsa) in Jerusalem."

That is funny. Muhammad died in 632AD and the first mosque was not built in Jerusalem until 715AD.
Was he a Time traveler perhaps? If so I am sure the Mosques in the Philippine Islands are farther than Jerusalem.

Follow the link to understand why things don't add up: Dishonesty is a vital part of the islamic belief system

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Khan_Sama
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29 Sep 2008, 9:52 am

Mudboy wrote:

Khan_Sama wrote:

As for the mention of Jerusalem in the noble Quran, http://islam.about.com/od/jerusalem/a/quds.htm The specific verses mentioning change of the Qibla from Jerusalem are 2:142 to 2:144.

140,000 prophets also prayed along with him at the site. A church to the virgin Mary was built there, which was destroyed by the Sassanids.

The first mosque, built in Medina, the Quba mosuqe, originally was just the ground, surrounded by a wall, with a roof made of leaves. A mosque need not be a structure to pray in. The area where Jamaat takes place is a mosque. The Arabic word "Masjid" means "place of prayer".

Yes, I have read answering-islam.org . It's a nice read, if you're looking for a few laughs, lol.

slowmutant
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29 Sep 2008, 10:05 am

DentArthurDent wrote:

slowmutant wrote:

Quote:

"The Israelis claim that the Bible says it is "their" land. But that is total nonsense. You can't base that on a 2000 year old book."

Why not?

Because they claim to have been given it by a being that does not exist.

That is not a valid response.

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29 Sep 2008, 10:14 am

Khan_Sama wrote:

slowmutant wrote:

Only if you consider violence and butchery as a solution in and of itself. IT should be obvious that all this killing isn't solving anything. But does anyone in the MIddle East really want a solution or just more of the same? All they want is war.

Most Palestinians want an end to discrimination. The refugees want their homes back. Public opinion differs everywhere. The Palestinians are divided between the secular PLO, the fundamentalist Hamas, and the Ultra Fundamentalist Islamic Jihad. 75% of Arab Israelis support Israel. The Arabs of East Jerusalem want to remain in Israel. The Palestinians in the west bank want East Jerusalem to be the capital of the future Palestinian state. The people of Gaza want to abolish the state of Israel. The people in the west bank support the two-state solution. Hezbollah wants to abolish the state of Israel. Jordan and Egypt love Israel.

All opinions are divided.

The majority of Muslims worldwide want the state of Israel abolished, and the Jews exiled back to Europe.

I personally think the one-state solution is perfect, modeled on the lines of the federation of Bosnia and Herzegovina. It is convenient to both, the Jews, as well as the Arabs. Unfortunately, the only scope of a one-state solution which has been discussed is that of a unitary state, which is impossible considering the fertility rate among Arabs and Jews. Arabs have a much higher fertility rate, and in the case of a unitary state, will never allow Jews to have political power.

The Jews cannot be exiled back to Europe. You'd have to kill them all first.

countzarroff
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29 Sep 2008, 10:25 am

Don't blame the Isralite People for what their government does, it's not their fault. Yes most of them want to live in Israel, but many of them are looking to co-exist rather than exterminate. The government in Israel is still running off of a reactionary right-wing agenda run by Zionist supremecy, then again it's not like the Palistinian officials don't think the same way about their ethic group. At the end of the day, I just feel bad for the people caught in the crossfire.

countzarroff
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29 Sep 2008, 10:28 am

ValMikeSmith wrote:

I'm no history expert this is just my opinion.

Israel actually seems to show incredible restraint and mercy.
Imagine if native americans started launching missiles at the United States
to take it back... I'd think half the people would talk about blasting away their
reserved land. I don't know anything about the situation with the Australian aborigines
(Except vaguely from the lyrics of the 1980's band Midnight Oil).

But I'm very surprised that Canada returned it's northern part to the "eskimoes"
especially because of the huge ratio of actual land area to actual persons,
so much that I'd think that none of them would even walk the perimeter of
their own lot, if it were actually divided that way. I'm not aware of any violence there;
it seemed like maybe they just had to say "PLEASE?".

Mercy? Ever heard of Shabeh? It's a form of torture the Isralite Government uses. They tie you to a slanted chair and put awful amounts of pain on your spine. There was an interview or something by this guy who went through that torture. Look it up.

countzarroff
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29 Sep 2008, 10:31 am

Stimshieme wrote:

lelia wrote:

Israel gave back Gaza, and now missiles from Gaza land randomly in Israel every day.

They didn't "give back Gaza". They never owned it. What are gloriously stupid comment. The army of Israel held the territory and banned any checkpoints for the Palestinians to cross. I should know. I worked there trying to help the mothers of starving babies.

I want to the whole world to know this. This is no different to the what the Israelis experienced in the 1930's Germany: being outscasts.

That's very true. It's called Fascism. But again don't blame the entire group of people for what it's government does.

slowmutant
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29 Sep 2008, 10:35 am

I agree with you, CZ. AS a Canadian I realize how much of a luxury it is to have neutrality on this argument. The people with their nose it in it, day after day, don't have that luxury. I can appreciate that for these people, Jews and Palestians, it's survival itself. But I don't want to see anyone forced out of their homes. I don't want to see anyone forced into exile.

Plan A: Jews win, all Arabs are dead
Plan B: Arabs win, all Jews are dead.

and then there's ...

Plan C: Coexistence, Cooperation, Reconciliation

Khan_Sama
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29 Sep 2008, 11:02 am

slowmutant, time will tell. None of us can predict the final outcome in the end.

slowmutant
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29 Sep 2008, 11:08 am

I don't claim to know the future, but I can speculate some possible outcomes. Neither side has unlimited resources or unlimited numbers, so eventually they'll exhaust their capability for war.

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