[IMPORTANT] Hamas launches foot assault against settlements.

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Dox47
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01 Nov 2023, 10:49 pm

As the only bonafide member of the military industrial complex here (afaik), I'm afraid to say we're not nearly as omnipotent or omniscient as reputed. Believe me, I wish we'd had some inside info on what was coming, the chaos in the business is impressive at the moment.


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goldfish21
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02 Nov 2023, 12:31 am

Dox47 wrote:
As the only bonafide member of the military industrial complex here (afaik), I'm afraid to say we're not nearly as omnipotent or omniscient as reputed. Believe me, I wish we'd had some inside info on what was coming, the chaos in the business is impressive at the moment.

I doubt a production employee at a gun factory is going to be privy to any sort of high level knowledge that might be circulating amongst the upper echelons of the MIC..


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02 Nov 2023, 12:37 am

goldfish21 wrote:
Dox47 wrote:
As the only bonafide member of the military industrial complex here (afaik), I'm afraid to say we're not nearly as omnipotent or omniscient as reputed. Believe me, I wish we'd had some inside info on what was coming, the chaos in the business is impressive at the moment.

I doubt a production employee at a gun factory is going to be privy to any sort of high level knowledge that might be circulating amongst the upper echelons of the MIC..


I thought he was a burger flipper.


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goldfish21
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02 Nov 2023, 12:54 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
Dox47 wrote:
As the only bonafide member of the military industrial complex here (afaik), I'm afraid to say we're not nearly as omnipotent or omniscient as reputed. Believe me, I wish we'd had some inside info on what was coming, the chaos in the business is impressive at the moment.

I doubt a production employee at a gun factory is going to be privy to any sort of high level knowledge that might be circulating amongst the upper echelons of the MIC..


I thought he was a burger flipper.

He proudly makes AR-15’s in some gun factory in the Seattle area.

But I highly doubt any high level MIC insider knowledge is going to trickle down to come some guy assembling guns. Or even to the management - I mean, it’s not like he works for Lockheed Martin or blackwater or anything.


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Kraichgauer
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02 Nov 2023, 1:29 am

goldfish21 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
Dox47 wrote:
As the only bonafide member of the military industrial complex here (afaik), I'm afraid to say we're not nearly as omnipotent or omniscient as reputed. Believe me, I wish we'd had some inside info on what was coming, the chaos in the business is impressive at the moment.

I doubt a production employee at a gun factory is going to be privy to any sort of high level knowledge that might be circulating amongst the upper echelons of the MIC..


I thought he was a burger flipper.

He proudly makes AR-15’s in some gun factory in the Seattle area.

But I highly doubt any high level MIC insider knowledge is going to trickle down to come some guy assembling guns. Or even to the management - I mean, it’s not like he works for Lockheed Martin or blackwater or anything.


Needless to say, when has industry ever kept their workers in the know?


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02 Nov 2023, 3:02 am

Israel Is Preparing for Months of War

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Israeli officials are planning to wage war against Hamas for several months to come, without interruption, despite—or, in some ways, because of—widespread calls for a cease-fire.

At a recent sit-down with Israeli reporters, Defense Minister Yoav Gallant outlined what he saw as the “four phases” of the war. The second phase—the “expanded ground activity” that started last week, with Israeli troops and fighter jets closing in on Gaza City, destroying Hamas’ vast network of tunnels and killing its commanders—will go on, Gallant said, “for months.”

In the third phase, Israeli troops will hunt down “pockets of resistance” and prepare to transfer control of Gaza to some entity that is neither Hamas nor Israel, though there’s no clear plan as to whom this will, or should, be.

Gallant described the fourth phase as “the end of Israeli responsibility for life in Gaza”—though it’s not apparent who would assume this responsibility or how other terrorist groups or brands of militants would be prevented from rising in Hamas’ place.

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has rejected calls for a cease-fire, saying that it would be synonymous with surrendering to Hamas, whose attackers killed 1,400 Israeli civilians and abducted more than 200 in their Oct. 7 raid. In a Wall Street Journal op-ed Monday, Netanyahu argued that Hamas poses a threat to not only Israel but all of civilization, noting that the United States hadn’t observed a cease-fire after Japan’s bombing of Pearl Harbor or al-Qaida’s attack on the World Trade Center.

President Joe Biden, while continuing to support Israel’s right to defend itself, has—with growing urgency—called on Netanyahu to go out of his way to minimize civilian casualties, in accordance with international law. (Israeli strikes have reportedly killed 8,000 Palestinians in Gaza since Oct. 7.) State Department spokesman Matthew Miller on Monday sternly warned Israel to “take measures to protect Palestinians from extremist settler violence” in the West Bank and to “hold accountable” those settlers and any Israeli soldiers who stand by or fail to intervene.

Since the Oct. 7 Hamas attack, these settlers have killed at least 115 Palestinians, injured more than 2,000, and forcibly expelled almost 1,000 from their homes—without evidence that any of the victims played any role in the attack. (The West Bank is governed by the more moderate Palestinian Authority, not by Hamas.) One danger of these rampages, quite apart from their murderous immorality, is that they are likely to radicalize many residents—and possibly top P.A. officials—thus making any sort of reconciliation between Israel and Palestine still more difficult.

The U.S. vetoed a United Nations Security Council resolution condemning all violence in the war. Not long after, the U.N. General Assembly failed to muster the necessary two-thirds majority to pass a resolution condemning Hamas for the Oct. 7 attack and, instead, called for a cease-fire. Together, the two votes illustrate how this conflict has polarized the world—mainly to Israel’s detriment, a dynamic that is likely to intensify as the war does.

Many Israelis are shocked that so much of the world seems to overlook Hamas’ terrorist attack and, in some cases, laud it as an act of resistance against Israeli occupiers. Ethan Bronner, Jerusalem bureau chief for Bloomberg News and a veteran Middle East correspondent, recently reported that many Israelis have reacted to these protests by hunkering down. If much of the world can’t condemn Hamas for killing more Jews in a single day than at any time since the Holocaust, and swiftly blames Israel for an attack on a hospital in Gaza just on the basis of a Hamas report (even though it turned out to have almost certainly been struck by an errant rocket fired by Islamic Jihad), then—so their reasoning goes—it doesn’t matter what the world thinks. Israel’s very survival is at stake, so Israel must do what it must do.

And that means, according to Gallant’s four-phase war plan, ensuring that Hamas can no longer threaten Israel’s borders. (The son of Holocaust survivors, Gallant, like many Israelis, takes very seriously the phrase “Never again.”)

Throughout the three weeks since Hamas’ attack, Biden—long an ardent supporter of Israel—has embraced the Jewish state, but with strong caveats. On Oct. 18, when Biden flew to Israel (his second active war zone, after Ukraine), he sat in on a Cabinet meeting (another first) and asked tough questions: What’s your plan for the day after the war is over? Who is going to control and rebuild Gaza? How will you ensure that the enclave’s next leaders, whoever they are, won’t also pose a threat?

The Cabinet ministers had no answers. Biden told them they needed to think through postwar objectives before dashing into a full-scale war. He reminded them that the U.S. dashed into Afghanistan and Iraq with pumped-up rage after 9/11 but no long-term plan—with disastrous results. He also urged the officials to restore the corridors for humanitarian aid and find some way to get the hostages out.

Under this pressure, Israel has restored water and turned back on some of the electricity and internet connections that it had briefly turned off.

it has also opened a corridor to allow in trucks carrying food, medicine, and other supplies—though, so far, only a fraction of what is needed for Gaza’s 2 million people, half of whom have been displaced from their homes.

It may also be that Biden’s pressure slowed down Israeli plans for an all-out invasion—that it persuaded some of Netanyahu’s unity war Cabinet to think through their objectives before going wild.

Hezbollah’s attacks have done little damage so far. They seem designed to signal support for Hamas without getting very involved in the war. But escalation is a slippery thing. One side’s signal of support can be taken by the other side as an existential threat. Small wars have tumbled into big wars on the swells of such miscalculations.

Qatar, which has been funneling supplies to Hamas for years but which has also been deemed a “major non-NATO ally” by the United States, has been trying to negotiate the release of hostages, but with only mild success so far. Hamas has publicly offered an “all-for-all” trade—it will release all hostages if Israel releases all its Palestinian prisoners. There are about 10,000 such prisoners—half of them arrested since the Oct. 7 attack.

Numerically, the trade would not be unprecedented.

Some family members of today’s hostages have urged Netanyahu to take the deal. But Gallant has said the offer is “phony.”

Meanwhile, on Tuesday, an IDF spokesperson said Israeli troops were engaged in “fierce battles against Hamas terrorists deep in Gaza.” IDF spokespeople will likely be announcing this daily for many weeks to come.


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goldfish21
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02 Nov 2023, 2:22 pm

With the US passing a funding bill to assist Israel for at least a year it's no surprise at all that Israel plans to continue all out war for months, at least, to come.

Sounds like Biden actually made some valuable contributions to Israel's plans, or lack thereof. Some sort of long term strategy is needed vs. just blind rage warfare and then reacting to whatever fallout it creates forever. Would be nice if they Did have a plan for governance, rebuilding etc. I bet the USA usually has some sort of plan for what they're going to build where and why when they level some place - probably mostly some new military outpost for their own expansion.. but at least it's a plan vs. none at all.

Sounds like the world is telling Israel to minimize civilian casualties.. but we'll see if Israel bothers to even try. Their only incentive, really, is to minimize radicalization of civilians in the long run - which should be incentive enough if they don't care about pesky things like war crimes.


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02 Nov 2023, 2:38 pm

Gotta hand it to Iran. They observed how the Americans and Europe were dragged into Russia's protracted war with Ukraine. No need to for a war on the west. Iran and it's allies have forced Israel into a protracted war that will drain resources from their western allies.
https://www.ft.com/content/7fe07a25-9a7 ... 756bb04c2f

No wonder even China wants both Russia and Israel to go to the negotiating table,



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02 Nov 2023, 2:43 pm

TwilightPrincess wrote:
3. No, Israel deserves a significant amount of blame, historically and currently. Hamas is evil, but that doesn’t mean that Israel is good.


I am curious, if you forced Israel into a ceasefire, then how would you expect Israel to get back all the hostages? trade? or pay?



goldfish21
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02 Nov 2023, 2:44 pm

Why? What's in it for China?

You'd think they'd happily let the rest of the world deplete munitions so they can do whatever they want - like raid Taiwan.


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02 Nov 2023, 2:48 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
Why? What's in it for China?

You'd think they'd happily let the rest of the world deplete munitions so they can do whatever they want - like raid Taiwan.


Think about it, China is just as reliant on the global trade as we are. They also buy oil from the middle east
https://www.reuters.com/business/energy ... 023-02-17/

They are exposed to Iran's little games



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02 Nov 2023, 2:48 pm

An Israeli spokesperson: “We are not targeting anyone in Gaza but civilians”

https://twitter.com/JordanUhl/status/17 ... 04098?s=20

Freudian slip or accidental honesty?


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02 Nov 2023, 2:53 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
An Israeli spokesperson: “We are not targeting anyone in Gaza but civilians”

https://twitter.com/JordanUhl/status/17 ... 04098?s=20

Freudian slip or accidental honesty?


At least HAMAS are more direct and honest
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-ea ... 023-10-11/

BTW the old PLO cry of "From the River to the Sea" which is heard even from the mouths of American Ivy league students means wiping Israel from the map (and by proxy all Jews) from the River Jordan to the Mediterranean sea.



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02 Nov 2023, 2:57 pm

cyberdad wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
An Israeli spokesperson: “We are not targeting anyone in Gaza but civilians”

https://twitter.com/JordanUhl/status/17 ... 04098?s=20

Freudian slip or accidental honesty?


At least HAMAS are more direct and honest
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-ea ... 023-10-11/

BTW the old PLO cry of "From the River to the Sea" which is heard even from the mouths of American Ivy league students means wiping Israel from the map (and by proxy all Jews) from the River Jordan to the Mediterranean sea.


It sucks when you support a terrorist group to weaken your real opponent, only to end up having the terrorists become a more significant threat.

Probably should have dealt with Fatah in good faith. If they did that when they had the chance, they wouldn't be dealing with Hamas at all.


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02 Nov 2023, 2:58 pm

Meh. Warring tribes gonna war.

I bet a lot of the world is getting war-headline-fatigue and just going about their lives w/o much thought to what's going on with people murdering each other somewhere else. More and more I bet. Otherwise everyone would just drive themselves nuts thinking about the stupidity of all of it.

It's little wonder that the most productive financially successful people don't watch or read the news. Just a bunch of negativity & mind pollution that none of us regular people can do a damned thing about considering the juggernaut war machines set in motion by people in charge WAY above our pay grades. It's hard to keep caring - especially when there's likely to be another war, and another, and another all kicking off in various parts of the world. It just becomes.. okay, cool, do your war thing - I'm gonna go to work and go to the beach k thx.


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02 Nov 2023, 3:17 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
It's hard to keep caring - especially when there's likely to be another war, and another, and another all kicking off in various parts of the world. It just becomes.. okay, cool, do your war thing - I'm gonna go to work and go to the beach k thx.


Grill-pilled.


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