[IMPORTANT] Hamas launches foot assault against settlements.

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I have to stop watching because I get depressed.So I go outside and work in the garden and enjoy the woods.Wishing that all people had the option of a peaceful safe home.
Also once I see something awful, I can never unsee it.
I already have enough bad images.

You have my total respect Twilight Princess.

I like how *You reason and write with common sense.

Someone is using both factions in my opinion.

To eliminate both.

If Hamas exists it is precisely because the imbalances you describe exist.
For decades, not since last October 7th.

Like you, I also dissociate myself from such organizations.

The point isn't even: should they have reacted to the attack?

As?

And to others it also seems legitimate and right... is tearing people apart right?

In this conflict, whoever annihilates the other nation (not Hamas, but the people, people, you are writing about people...do you notice?) is therefore justifiable

Horrible things have always happened.

And the two peoples have always lived in fear that something devastating might happen, but this has always happened.

Is it possible that apart from you and Blitkrieg and a few others here no one can understand that
Are human lives being massacred?

My name was a deliberate choice and it is Davide, and he is Israeli.

As we write, people are dying.

It is useless to try to justify what happens as a necessary reaction.

Are we kidding?

When they write things like that, do they realize it?

It doesn't seem like it to me.

In my country we had a conflict between Fascists and Communists which led to a quarter of a century of attacks post-World War II.

There was no one who had reason to kill defenseless people.

Those who justify these actions and do not dissociate themselves are thinking with the same mentality as those who carry out the massacres.

He has a black soul that shines through in his posts in the forum.

I generally resent anyone who writes that these petty actions are right.

And it's as petty as those who implement them.

Last edited by Huckleberry Finn on 02 Nov 2023, 3:40 pm, edited 2 times in total.

That seems to be SOME people's experience. It's certainly not everyone's, though. Maybe some people are more inclined to be desensitized than others. Of course, some seem to have lower levels of empathy, too. At any rate, lots of people have to be careful about how much they follow the headlines because it bothers them so much, and there's no possibility that they will stop caring at any point. I tend to fall into the latter demographic.

^^ Thank you!!

It's such a frustrating situation because I strongly feel like it could've been avoided, but it seems like people are determined to continue the cycle of hate indefinitely and at the cost of civilian life.

You do know the reason HAMAS launched its attack has nothing to do with Israel's treatment of Palestinians? It was to disrupt ongoing peace negotiations Israel was making with it's Arab neighbours including Saudi Arabia.

BTW It worked

I do know that this is a complex, multi-faceted issue that certainly has a lot to do with Israel’s treatment of Palestine.

Don’t tell me what I “do know.” I’m perfectly capable of saying what I know on my own.

You said the HAMAS terror attack could have been avoided. It was literally designed to disrupt Israel making peace.

What do you think gave rise to Hamas? Why do you think Hamas came into power there?

I really think so Twilight Princess.

I read your comments with admiration.

Don't be discouraged by some who use sarcasm to respond.

Those who respond with sarcasm and irony to these discussions do so because they have no topic for discussion.

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I read maybe one just above our comments.

Maybe I misunderstood, if so I apologize.

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Yes: if the relevant nations wanted, several conflicts could be avoided.

This is why nothing was done.

We have let hatred and desperation grow, now they propose death as the solution.

In Italy we have been well aware of this condition for decades.

There have been many military missions in many states, including in Kosovo which is very close to us.

The exceptions are Palestine and Israel, in that context my nation tried to bring peace and not war.

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Of course, any conflict can be mediated.
Without causing it to reach extreme consequences.

We must try to avoid genocides.

Wars must be avoided, this too.

The Jews are an integral part of our centuries-old history, and we have faults before and during the last world war.

The Arabs are present in large numbers in Europe, and also in Italy, in some cities you will see more Arabs than Italians, but in general our population is now made up of many others.

The Italians have sided for peace. It is clear that the demonstrations want the massacre of people to stop. The sacred texts of our three peoples are of peace and not of war.

In Italy you will find the synagogues, the mosques, the Catholic and Orthodox churches, I cannot mention them all.

The official mosques in Italy there are 12 in the sense of ad hoc constructions, 6 complete with Minaret (Segrate Milan, Rome, Ravenna, Colle di Val D'Elsa, Forlí, Piacenza in order of inauguration); while there are more than 1,000 places of Islamic worship.

Few cities in the world can boast a history equal to that of Jerusalem. The Holy City was the cradle of three great religions, it has attracted the gaze of rulers and emperors over the centuries and its immense legacy has survived the passage of time.

Jerusalem was destroyed 12 times, besieged 20 times and conquered 50 times.

The eyes of all the peoples of the world have turned at least once to the Holy City, with suspicion and admiration in equal measure. But few cities in the world can match the exciting history surrounding Jerusalem, a city born five thousand years ago.


Jerusalem is one of the oldest cities in the world. Although its foundation dates back to 1004 BC, the remains found in archaeological excavations in the area reveal that the origin of Jerusalem is much older and that the first settlements occurred in the 5th millennium BC.

Although most of the ceramic objects displayed in the Jerusalem museums belonged to the Jewish tribes of Canaanite, it is believed that the city's first inhabitants were the Jebusites, who christened their new home as Gebus.


According to Jewish tradition, King David of Israel and Judah conquered Jerusalem in 1004 BC. and made it the capital of his unified kingdom.
The history of Jerusalem thus entered a period of splendor that centuries later would lead it to become a Holy City for Muslims, Jews and Christians.

King Solomon, son of David, expanded the city walls and built the great Temple of Jerusalem, intended to house the venerated Ark of the Covenant, which contained the laws that Yahweh gave to Moses on Mount Sinai.

After the destruction of the temple during the Babylonian invasion, construction began on a second temple on today's Temple Mount that would be completed during the reign of Herod the Great.

In 64 BC, Pompeo Roman troops set out to conquer Jerusalem, which was annexed by the Empire as a province of Judea. Ruled by Herod, Jerusalem extended its walls and beautified its streets, but the peace did not last long.

Only one hundred years later, in 66 AD, the first Judeo-Roman war broke out. Emperor Titus' troops raided Jerusalem, destroyed the Second Temple and reduced the city to ashes. According to the historian Flavius Josephus, Jerusalem was so destroyed that it was difficult to imagine that it had ever been inhabited.

The only remaining vestiges of Solomon's Temple are those of the Wailing Wall, the holiest place in the world for Jews.

Stages of foreign domination
After several failed revolts, Jerusalem became part of the Byzantine Empire and one of its four most important cities. The Byzantines expelled the Jews and thus began the construction of the Holy Sepulcher in 326.

At the beginning of the 7th century, the Arabs conquered Jerusalem and the predominant religion in the city changed once again. The latter built a mosque on the rock where Muhammad ascended to heaven, the Dome of the Rock.

After four centuries of Muslim domination in Jerusalem, Pope Urbano II announced the First Crusade, ready to re-establish Christianity in the Holy City. Jerusalem thus entered a phase of religious controversies which culminated once again in the total destruction of the city.

The last to rule for a long period of time in Jerusalem were the Ottomans.

Sultan Suleiman the Magnificent rebuilt the walls of the Old City and closed the Golden Gate, through which, according to Jewish tradition, the Messiah would enter to liberate Jerusalem.

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During World War I, the British army in Egypt advanced towards the East, defeated the Ottoman army and entered Jerusalem. The Holy City, located within Palestine, came under the command of the English.

Tensions between the British, Jews and Arabs grew ever higher, causing continuous riots and fighting that led to open warfare in 1948.

The Hurva Synagogue and other emblematic buildings were reduced to ashes. In 1950, the United Nations declared the State of Israel.


The historical and religious importance of Jerusalem knows no bounds, and has been its worst enemy since time immemorial. The latest disputes to conquer Jerusalem took place very recently.

The 1967 Six-Day War pitted the State of Israel against its Arab neighbors (Egypt, Jordan, Iraq and Syria), and Israel expanded its UN-designated borders by occupying Jerusalem. Since then, Palestine has claimed East Jerusalem (and thus the Old City) as its capital.

Israel, for its part, considers Jerusalem as its eternal and indivisible capital, thus generating a complicated conflict.

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After the world war, my nation alone participated in 120 peacekeeping missions and to ensure that the agreements undertaken were respected.

Yes, conflicts can sometimes be contained very well.

However we try and if the impossible exists we try to go even beyond what seems impossible to achieve.


I don't know, I may be very strange, but I'm not at all happy about the torment of a war that will reveal its two faces.

First to eliminate the Palestinians, then the others do it with the Israelis.

They are destroying a sacred place with millennia of civilization, the same ones who contributed to making it so.

Last edited by Huckleberry Finn on 02 Nov 2023, 5:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

This is a smart question that if answered, I will be interested to read.

Yahweh
Point to Jesus Christ.
I remember it even without vowels
My elderly religion professor also often pronounced it in Hebrew.

I used the past tense because he died recently, I have two friends who have degrees in Theology and philosophy.

They could argue better, much better than me.


The Jews consider the tetragrammaton to be too sacred to be pronounced and therefore the correct vocalization (the interpolation of vowels to consonants) of the four letters of the tetragrammaton has been lost over time


*Let's bring death even where it would not have passed in such a bloody way.
Let us praise death, without having done a iota of anything to avoid it.

Indeed: for the "Just right to take revenge"

The name could also derive from a verb meaning "to become", "to happen", "to exist" and "to be"

I am not using sarcasm?

You are trying to be retrospective. I made the point earlier that using your logic, the US should also return the lands you live on back to native Americans.

What are you talking about? I never said that Israel as a whole should be given to Palestine. I disagree with the way Native Americans have been treated, but that’s off-topic.

I noticed that you sidestepped my questions by misrepresenting my position. A red herring perhaps?

I'm sorry but the creation of the state of Israel involved the dispossession of land from Palestinians. In order to have avoided the subsequent bloodshed (what you call avoiding upsetting Palestinians) you need to reverse the clock and give back the stolen land to the Palestinians (this is infact the manifesto and the basis of the cry "From the river to the sea")

No, I would not refer to the ongoing oppression of Palestine in that way. Please don’t put words in my mouth again. It surpasses merely “upsetting” them, even in recent history.

Before the current conflict:


They've denied media entry to Gaza in the past:
https://rsf.org/en/israel-s-arguments-d ... e-spurious

And aide:
https://www.hrw.org/report/2017/04/03/u ... ts-workers

You still haven’t answered my questions, so the red herring continues.

Last edited by TwilightPrincess on 02 Nov 2023, 8:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.