[IMPORTANT] Hamas launches foot assault against settlements.

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TwilightPrincess
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04 Nov 2023, 7:07 pm

cyberdad wrote:
But knowing all this doesn't help the victims of the HAMAS terror attack or the families of those who can't sleep at night knowing whether their family membets are being abused by the captors in the tunnels of Gaza.

What about the thousands of people, including children, who are being slaughtered in Palestine?

Why do you consistently leave them out of your posts about victims?

How would you feel if you and your family were in Gaza? Would you be justifying Israel’s behavior then when most countries, humanitarian organizations, and the UN are against it? I doubt it.


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Last edited by TwilightPrincess on 04 Nov 2023, 7:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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04 Nov 2023, 7:13 pm

cyberdad wrote:
TwilightPrincess wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Clearly, Israel has to change what direction they've been going in, as well. Likud and other right wing parties have proven themselves to be as crypto fascist as the American GOP has become, and what's worse, they've wrapped themselves in Biblical justifications for expansion from thousands of years ago. Clearly, they are hardly less demented than Hamas when you get down to it. Likud and their allies need to be voted out of power.
What should be done to fix the problems associated with Israel that have been demonstrated historically and currently?


Ok I don't dispute Likud's credentials (particularly in their past policy of sterilising Ethiopian refugees) and their attitude toward Palestinians as second class citizens, israelis carry the same values/views toward non-jews that Europeans carry toward non-whites but that doesn't make Likud special as the US also have cryto-fascists in the republican party,

But let's be real, Israel was set up in 1948 as a ethnonationalist Jewish state. It's foundation was built on the premise it represented a safe zone for all Diaspora Jews to return to their ancient homeland. Likud's views are just one extreme on a continuum that covers a gamut of views carried by the Jewish population.

That their actions over the years probably enables groups like HAMAS is also not in dispute. But knowing all this doesn't help the victims of the HAMAS terror attack or the families of those who can't sleep at night knowing whether their family membets are being abused by the captors in the tunnels of Gaza,.


Wait a minute... this is something I don't think I was aware of. Likud had sterilized Ethiopian immigrants? I think it's high time Likud face up to what they are, and put their swastika armbands on.


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Last edited by Cornflake on 04 Nov 2023, 7:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.: Fixed quoting

TwilightPrincess
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04 Nov 2023, 7:22 pm

^

Quote:
After Israel admitted to the 2008 atrocity in 2013, The Haifa Feminist Center in Israel reported that 57% of the women that received the Depo-Provera shot were Ethiopian Jews–despite only making up 2% of the population. Many rabbis and prominent figures within Israel have also justified the sterilization by questioning the Jewishness of Ethiopian Jews, in which long-reigning Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu chimed in by saying Black Jews in Israel “‘threaten our existence as a Jewish and democratic state.'”

https://pedestalproject.com/2021/06/22/ ... revisited/

https://www.geneticsandsociety.org/biop ... traception


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Last edited by TwilightPrincess on 04 Nov 2023, 7:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Huckleberry Finn
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04 Nov 2023, 7:23 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
1. Up to now what has happened to the Palestinians has not been classified as genocide, Otherwise the western nations and NATO would have slapped sanctions on Israel.


Could it just be that the west is morally inconsistent and won't sanction an ally no matter what they're doing? :scratch:

Another good question from you.

Impossible: we in NATO (NATO Nations) are the good guys and the others are the bad guys.

NATO is fundamental.

There is no discussion, my post is certainly not against NATO.

But honestly, would you expect a nation like Israel to be evaluated differently from just a predestined victim or even a persecutor now?


Two sides of the same coin.


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Huckleberry Finn
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04 Nov 2023, 7:39 pm

TwilightPrincess wrote:
^
Quote:
After Israel admitted to the 2008 atrocity in 2013, The Haifa Feminist Center in Israel reported that 57% of the women that received the Depo-Provera shot were Ethiopian Jews–despite only making up 2% of the population. Many rabbis and prominent figures within Israel have also justified the sterilization by questioning the Jewishness of Ethiopian Jews, in which long-reigning Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu chimed in by saying Black Jews in Israel “‘threaten our existence as a Jewish and democratic state.'”

https://pedestalproject.com/2021/06/22/ ... revisited/

https://www.geneticsandsociety.org/biop ... traception

I knew this reality.

Ethiopia was one of our Colonial States:

We committed massacres there that were never punished by anyone.

In Ethiopia since 1889.

It was annexed to the Fascist Empire half a century after other massacres, violence, torture, mustard gas, rape of women.

From Italy the order given was also to poison their waters.


The Generals replied that they would then have to have their assault troops live in Ethiopia, but also in Somalia, Libya, and then Eritrea.

Yes, I knew the contents of the link you posted.

As you can see, I also mention my country, I don't mince words.

What you pointed out won't be heard by anyone I'm afraid.

And it's important.

You will be answered something else, or the post will be edited by whoever replies to you.

Because he wouldn't know what to answer you.

Or:-"war is a terrible thing, there are no wars that don't involve these situations"

Others will justify them as the right reaction against Hamas, or I don't know what else they will say is absurd.


My answer is yes, and what you describe is true.

Yes: and it's terrible.

Yes: they did.

No: there is no excuse.

And it's criminal that this was done.


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04 Nov 2023, 9:59 pm

TwilightPrincess wrote:
^
Quote:
After Israel admitted to the 2008 atrocity in 2013, The Haifa Feminist Center in Israel reported that 57% of the women that received the Depo-Provera shot were Ethiopian Jews–despite only making up 2% of the population. Many rabbis and prominent figures within Israel have also justified the sterilization by questioning the Jewishness of Ethiopian Jews, in which long-reigning Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu chimed in by saying Black Jews in Israel “‘threaten our existence as a Jewish and democratic state.'”

https://pedestalproject.com/2021/06/22/ ... revisited/

https://www.geneticsandsociety.org/biop ... traception


I have to think those conservative Israelis wouldn't have a problem with the Ethiopian Jews if they were white. Goes to show you, racism isn't just a Christian problem.


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05 Nov 2023, 8:16 am

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Kraichgauer wrote:
Wait a minute... this is something I don't think I was aware of. Likud had sterilized Ethiopian immigrants? I think it's high time Likud face up to what they are, and put their swastika armbands on.


I was going to say something about a swastika on its own not being accurate so I googled something I remember I saw.
Maybe Likud are into Raëlism whose symbol is a swastika/Star of David mashup :jester: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ra%C3%ABlism


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05 Nov 2023, 11:54 am

https://www.reddit.com/r/therewasanatte ... androidcss

What do Israelis want? Genocide, from the sounds of it.


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05 Nov 2023, 11:55 am

funeralxempire wrote:
Jono wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
1. Up to now what has happened to the Palestinians has not been classified as genocide, Otherwise the western nations and NATO would have slapped sanctions on Israel.


Could it just be that the west is morally inconsistent and won't sanction an ally no matter what they're doing? :scratch:


No, genocide means that there's deliberate and planned attempt to wipe out an entire ethnic group. It's possible that war crimes are being committed but it's not clear that genocide is taking place. All we know is that Israel is trying destroy Hamas infrastructure like the tunnels, killing a lot of civilians in the process but that doesn't mean that they're the target.


I'd believe you, but too many of them are saying the quiet part out loud.

Genocide doesn't necessarily mean wiping out an entire ethnic group. Neither of two confirmed genocides, the Rwandan Genocide and the Ottoman Genocide of Armenians, would seem to have annihilation as a serious objective. What is required for the definition, I believe, is that some powerful group i.e. either a government or a major army in wartime such as the Irgun, officially carry out a policy of killing members of a particular ethnic or religious group without regard to who those people are. I mention the Irgun because I can imagine that they may have indeed committed what might qualify as genocidal acts 75 or so years ago, but I will insist that the State of Israel, once established, has never resorted to genocide a as a policy. For sure, they have engaged in policies that resulted in Palestinian deaths, but usually due to what they considered a provocation e.g. throwing rocks at them.

As an aside, I will point out that US and Canadian governments have committed unpunished acts of genocide against aboriginals. In the case of the US, this included deportation, which was part of the German Final Solution in the 1930s and 1940s. You may have also heard of the famous incident in which infected blankets were given to aboriginals in winter with the intention of getting them sick.

TBH, the only legitimately genocidal act that took place during the current unpleasantness was the initial Hamas attack on Israel.

Someone in this thread or another posted a graphic showing Jewish vs. non-Jewish deaths during outbreaks of violence over recent history in the Middle East. Palestinian deaths were much higher, but proportionately, Jewish deaths also went up. This shows a pattern of asymmetrical adversaries in wars, each of which was provoked by the weaker side of the equation, with the consequence that that side's own people died in much greater numbers than the energy. To me, that isn't heroic, it's insane.


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Last edited by MaxE on 05 Nov 2023, 11:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

funeralxempire
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05 Nov 2023, 11:57 am

Huckleberry Finn wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
1. Up to now what has happened to the Palestinians has not been classified as genocide, Otherwise the western nations and NATO would have slapped sanctions on Israel.


Could it just be that the west is morally inconsistent and won't sanction an ally no matter what they're doing? :scratch:

Another good question from you.

Impossible: we in NATO (NATO Nations) are the good guys and the others are the bad guys.

NATO is fundamental.

There is no discussion, my post is certainly not against NATO.

But honestly, would you expect a nation like Israel to be evaluated differently from just a predestined victim or even a persecutor now?


Two sides of the same coin.


Instead of being given special treatment, we should consider if their actions are actions we'd like to be associated with. If the answer is no, we stop propping them up.


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05 Nov 2023, 12:09 pm

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Among the most disturbing political phenomena of our times is the emergence in the newly created state of Israel of the "Freedom Party" (Tnuat Haherut), a political party closely akin in its organization, methods, political philosophy and social appeal to the Nazi and Fascist parties. It was formed out of the membership and following of the former Irgun Zvai Leumi, a terrorist, right-wing, chauvinist organization in Palestine ... It is inconceivable that those who oppose fascism throughout the world, if correctly informed as to Mr. Begin's political record and perspectives, could add their names and support to the movement he represents ... Today they speak of freedom, democracy and anti-imperialism, whereas until recently they openly preached the doctrine of the Fascist state. It is in its actions that the terrorist party betrays its real character; from its past actions we can judge what it may be expected to do in the future.


An open letter to The New York Times on 4 December 1948. The letter condemned Herut as "akin to Nazi and fascist parties", and as a "terrorist party". It was signed by over twenty prominent Jewish intellectuals, including Albert Einstein, Hannah Arendt, Zellig Harris, and Sidney Hook.

Herut is the predecessor to Likud. Apparently in those days it took a genius like Einstein to recognize what that party would transform into. These days it shouldn't take an Einstein to see what Likud is doing, they barely even attempt to downplay their acts.


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05 Nov 2023, 12:54 pm

Would be nice if we could just hit fast forward on all these wars and just get to the end w/o the daily negativity. However the chips are going to fall, just get it over with so the world's attention and energy can be focused on anything more productive.


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05 Nov 2023, 1:05 pm

Far-right minister: Nuking Gaza is an option, population should ‘go to Ireland or deserts’

Quote:
A minister from the extremist Otzma Yehudit party says one of Israel’s options in the war in Gaza is to drop a nuclear bomb on the Strip.

Asked in an interview with Radio Kol Berama whether an atomic bomb should be dropped on the enclave, Heritage Minister Amichai Eliyahu says “this is one of the possibilities.”

Eliyahu, of Itamar Ben Gvir’s far-right party, is not part of the security cabinet which is involved in the wartime decision-making, nor does he hold sway over the war cabinet directing the war against the Hamas terror group.

Eliyahu also voices his objection during the interview to allowing any humanitarian aid into Gaza, saying “we wouldn’t hand the Nazis humanitarian aid,” and charging that “there is no such thing as uninvolved civilians in Gaza.”

He backs retaking the Strip’s territory and restoring the settlements there. Asked about the fate of the Palestinian population, he says: “They can go to Ireland or deserts, the monsters in Gaza should find a solution by themselves.”

He says the northern Strip has no right to exist, adding that anyone waving a Palestinian or Hamas flag “shouldn’t continue living on the face of the earth.”


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05 Nov 2023, 1:08 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
Would be nice if we could just hit fast forward on all these wars and just get to the end w/o the daily negativity. However the chips are going to fall, just get it over with so the world's attention and energy can be focused on anything more productive.

Nobody's going to stop talking about THIS war until they're satisfied that the injustices owing to Zionism have somehow been resolved.


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05 Nov 2023, 1:30 pm

MaxE wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
Would be nice if we could just hit fast forward on all these wars and just get to the end w/o the daily negativity. However the chips are going to fall, just get it over with so the world's attention and energy can be focused on anything more productive.

Nobody's going to stop talking about THIS war until they're satisfied that the injustices owing to Zionism have somehow been resolved.

Oh, great.. forever, then. Guess I'll have to learn to tune it out and focus better on things that affect Me, My life, My goals, My fun & joy etc.


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