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From Pulitzer Price Rya Cohen 2009 articole...

"Suspicion that the Israeli army committed war crimes in Gaza
raises in Israel, as elsewhere, a series of questions especially on the rules of
war: whether, for example, the use of force was excessive, whether the orders and their
4 U. Blai, Kzin hinuch rashi beIgeret leHayalim: Hafsiku leHadpis Imrot Neaza al Hulzot, “Haaretz”
April 1, 2009.
5 Y. Levi, Halimut Ota Alimut, “Haaretz”, 3 March 2009.
6 A. Harel-U. Blau-Y. Feldman, Mivza Oferet Yetzuka, cit.; Y. Levi, Halimut ota alimut, “Haaretz”, 3
April 2009
7 I. Shahar, Diyun Soer Rishon baKnesset Hahadasha, “Haaretz”, 1 April 2009
8 United Nations Fact Finishing Mission on the Gaza Conflict, http://www.ohchr.org/.
Raya Cohen DEP n.13-14 / 2010
152
execution are justifiable from the point of view of Israeli criminal law e
international.
But the testimonies about crimes made by soldiers who return to being civilians and
which increasingly escape the control of the army, becoming public
they could also be read to understand the ability of civil society to look at itself
in your face and question yourself. This opportunity for public discussion on
behavior of the soldiers, on the ways and meanings of military repression is
even clearer than the t-shirt phenomenon, which precedes the operation
“Cast lead”, and since it has no legal character it is better suited to one
discussion about its meaning. Because, whether it's plainclothes soldiers or not
boast of acts of violence against civilians, as the newspaper “Haaretz” supposed, or
instead of a difficulty that soldiers would express when faced with a possible one
situation in which civilians are involved, or even traces of real acts of violence already
accomplished, it is difficult to ignore that these are soldiers enlisted in national service
mandatory that they print images of war crimes on t-shirts.
The shirts, along with the coincidence with the suspected war crimes committed
in Gaza, they ask the question why the public debate, despite having
involved many different exponents of civil society, nipped in the bud and if so
is a drift of civil society that does not denounce the "case" of the t-shirts and that
indeed it could be responsible for the imagery they evoke..."

From articole Raya Cohen 2009

"Sasson Levi, author of an essay on
gender identity in the Israeli army, the images on the t-shirts do not
they would serve to release the aggression, but rather they would strengthen it, by combining
sexism and nationalism, as seen on the t-shirt illustrating the rape of
Ismail Haniyeh, the head of the Hamas movement in Gaza6.
This wave of reactions on the behavior of the military towards civilians
Palestinians soon stopped/exhausted, despite the continuous flow of testimonies of
other soldiers and accusations from Palestinian civilians. In the discussion in
Parliament on the soldiers' testimonies on the crimes committed in Gaza and on
the t-shirt affair, the deputy defense minister, the Labor Party Matan Vilnai,
concluded that none of the testimony had been ocular, which was
young people who "had let off steam" without understanding the meaning of their words,
adding that the army prosecutor had opened on his own initiative
an investigation had concluded that it had "no doubts about his motives?" 7
. There
issue remained in the hands of Israeli NGOs, only external pressure,
especially around the possible accusations of war crimes against exponents
of the army and the minister of defense, and the report published by the commission
led by the South African judge Richard Goldstone, appointed by the Council
of the UN human rights body to investigate violations and war crimes
carried out during the Israeli “Cast Lead” offensive against Gaza8
, they pushed
from time to time public opinion to question any crimes committed
against the Palestinian civilian population.
Suspicion that the Israeli army committed war crimes in Gaza
raises in Israel, as elsewhere, a series of questions especially on the rules of
war: whether, for example, the use of force was excessive, whether the orders and their
4 U. Blai, Kzin hinuch rashi beIgeret leHayalim: Hafsiku leHadpis Imrot Neaza al Hulzot, “Haaretz”
April 1, 2009.
5 Y. Levi, Halimut Ota Alimut, “Haaretz”, 3 March 2009.
6 A. Harel-U. Blau-Y. Feldman, Mivza Oferet Yetzuka, cit.; Y. Levi, Halimut ota alimut, “Haaretz”, 3
April 2009
7 I. Shahar, Diyun Soer Rishon baKnesset Hahadasha, “Haaretz”, 1 April 2009
8 United Nations Fact Finishing Mission on the Gaza Conflict, www.ohchr.org/.
Raya Cohen DEP n.13-14 / 2010
152
execution are justifiable from the point of view of Israeli criminal law e
international.
But the testimonies about crimes made by soldiers who return to being civilians and
which increasingly escape the control of the army, becoming public
they could also be read to understand the ability of civil society to look at itself
in your face and question yourself. This opportunity for public discussion on
behavior of the soldiers, on the ways and meanings of military repression is
even clearer than the t-shirt phenomenon, which precedes the operation
“Cast lead”, and since it has no legal character it is better suited to one
discussion about its meaning. Because, whether it's plainclothes soldiers or not
boast of acts of violence against civilians, as the newspaper “Haaretz” supposed, or
instead of a difficulty that soldiers would express when faced with a possible one
situation in which civilians are involved, or even traces of real acts of violence already
accomplished, it is difficult to ignore that these are soldiers enlisted in national service
mandatory that they print images of war crimes on t-shirts.
The shirts, along with the coincidence with the suspected war crimes committed
in Gaza, they ask the question why the public debate, despite having
involved many different exponents of civil society, nipped in the bud and if so
is a drift of civil society that does not denounce the "case" of the t-shirts and that
indeed it could be responsible for the imagery they evoke.
The body of the nation and the conflict with the Palestinians
The Israeli government's policy of suspending state building
Palestinian alongside the Israeli one, as foreseen by the Oslo Accords, has
made the over four million Palestinians no longer a problem of external borders
by the State of Israel, but a problem internal to the Jewish national "body",
accentuating a historically unresolved dilemma of how a body is constructed
Jewish nationality in the modern world, beyond religious tradition. Ideology
Zionist – which presented itself as a break with the past of the Diaspora, secular and
modernist – also adopted suggestions that questioned the relationships of
traditional couple, especially among young people who immigrated to Palestine
since the end of the nineteenth century. On the other hand, representing itself as the culmination of
Jewish history, proposed the traditional limits on sexual reproduction by limiting it
to Jews only

From Raya Cohen 2009
"But the testimonies about crimes made by soldiers who return to being civilians and
which increasingly escape the control of the army, becoming public
they could also be read to understand the ability of civil society to look at itself
in your face and question yourself. This opportunity for public discussion on
behavior of the soldiers, on the ways and meanings of military repression is
even clearer than the t-shirt phenomenon, which precedes the operation
“Cast lead”, and since it has no legal character it is better suited to one
discussion about its meaning. Because, whether it's plainclothes soldiers or not
boast of acts of violence against civilians, as the newspaper “Haaretz” supposed, or
instead of a difficulty that soldiers would express when faced with a possible one
situation in which civilians are involved, or even traces of real acts of violence already
accomplished, it is difficult to ignore that these are soldiers enlisted in national service
mandatory that they print images of war crimes on t-shirts.
The shirts, along with the coincidence with the suspected war crimes committed
in Gaza, they ask the question why the public debate, despite having
involved many different exponents of civil society, nipped in the bud and if so
is a drift of civil society that does not denounce the "case" of the t-shirts and that
indeed it could be responsible for the imagery they evoke.
The body of the nation and the conflict with the Palestinians
The Israeli government's policy of suspending state building
Palestinian alongside the Israeli one, as foreseen by the Oslo Accords, has
made the over four million Palestinians no longer a problem of external borders
by the State of Israel, but a problem internal to the Jewish national "body",
accentuating a historically unresolved dilemma of how a body is constructed
Jewish nationality in the modern world, beyond religious tradition. Ideology
Zionist – which presented itself as a break with the past of the Diaspora, secular and
modernist – also adopted suggestions that questioned the relationships of
traditional couple, especially among young people who immigrated to Palestine
since the end of the nineteenth century. On the other hand, representing itself as the culmination of
Jewish history, proposed the traditional limits on sexual reproduction by limiting it
to Jews only9
. “The Jewish nation” in Palestine, daughter of this ambiguity,
builds its national body around the exclusion of Palestinian Arabs,
as a continuum with the individual bodies of the Jews, that is, those who are born
from a Jewish mother. This perception of the collective, national and modern body, but
outlined according to Jewish tradition, made the aspiration of the "natural".
Zionist leadership to a majority of Jews over as much territory as possible in the
194810
, expelling the Palestinian Arabs. As a result, the Jewish community, which
9 D. Biale, Eros and the Jews, From Biblical Israel to Contemporary America, Basic Books, New
York 1992, pp. 176-203
10 B. Morris, Victims, trans. it. by Stefano Galli, Rizzoli, Milan 2001 cit., chapters 5 and 6; M. Benvenisti,
Sacred Landscape. The Buried History of the Holy Land since 1948, University of California Press,
Raya Cohen DEP n.13-14 / 2010
153
before 1948 it constituted a third of the population of Mandatory Palestine and
which owned 7% of the land of Mandatory Palestine, in 1949 it became the
majority on 78% of the territory, constituting a limited nation-state
territorially by a “green line” of ceasefire
11
. The young Jewish state
he institutionalized the historical ambiguity of the Jewish national body, leaving
in the hands of traditional religious authorities, in addition to marriage and burial,
the task of defining who is a Jew and who can therefore enjoy the right to
Israeli citizenship, removing the possibility of creating a national identity
secular, disconnected from faith, which would also include citizens of Israeli origin
Palestinian Arab. Even today, Israeli citizens are, despite the secularism of one
large part of society, defined by their religious and ethnic affiliation. In
in this way a majority of citizens has been created who define themselves by their origin
ethnic Jewish, and a minority (20%) Palestinian Arab, who, not being
recognized as a national minority, it suffers a form of ethnocracy
12
.
The imaginary passage from the national body to the bodies of Israeli Jews has
led to greater confusion since the rest of Palestine has been
occupied by Israel and is still under its military control. The “green line” of
ceasefire has been systematically violated, because where the
Jewish colonies, Israeli law applies. With the failure of the Accords
Oslo and the hypothesis of a possible territorial division between the two states"

I have never denied the suffering Israeli victims have experienced in this conflict or in the past. Certain members have consistently expressed no sympathy for the innocent men, women, and children who have died in Gaza now and in recent decades up until the present. No one here is denying what Jews have been through historically, but there’s also no denying that Israel has and continues to oppress Palestine. This thread is about the conflict between Israel and Palestine. (I talk about my own experience with religious persecution in the post with the picture in the middle of this thread. It’s not like I’m approaching this topic with a completely blank slate.)

The conflict did not occur in a vacuum.

I feel for all victims, but I also don’t believe in giving Israel preferential treatment, either. They are people like anyone else. The oppressed has been the oppressor. They have broken international law and committed various war crimes. Perhaps you may want to reread this thread, including evidence from humanitarian organizations and the UN, if you want to understand where I’m coming from better. It’s not like my position is uninformed or lacks support. It appears to be the position most countries and organizations are taking. At this point, it feels like I’m beating a dead horse, and I’m starting to question why you keep on asking for information that’s already been covered numerous times.

I have a problem with the leadership in Israel and Palestine, not the people. Some people have equated Palestinian civilians with Hamas which is unfair according to information here.

As far as the current conflict is concerned, massive loss in terms of human life is happening in Palestine right now. As evil as Hamas is, they are not solely responsible for the death of Palestinian civilians which shouldn’t be surprising based on evidence regarding the IDF’s behavior in recent decades that has been partially addressed throughout this thread.

Last edited by TwilightPrincess on 06 Nov 2023, 9:37 am, edited 9 times in total.

From Raya Cohen 2009

Raya Cohen DEP n.13-14 / 2010
159
only the way of presenting these public and international investigations has changed. The
Journalist Amos Harel argued that it was not a military policy
killing of innocents and that the intensity of the fire was not comparable to that which
had used the US in Iraq in highly populated neighborhoods, but the Israeli army
I had
certainly made heavy fire in a densely populated area, interpreting the orders of
open fire to achieve the unwritten purpose of this operation: very few victims however
our strengths. In some units these indications were followed beyond a certain point
theshold
42
.
But also the interpretation of the orders implied by Harel and its consequences
they had not been hidden from the public. For example, in a documentary about the war
in Gaza done by Israeli TV (channel 10) a commander was seen telling the
soldiers:
If there is someone suspicious upstairs in a house, we hit him; if we have suspicions
on a house, we knock it down [...] If someone approaches unarmed, shoot in the air. Self
he continues, he is dead. If we have to make mistakes, let it be with their lives, not with ours.
And reservist Amir Marmor confirmed to the New York Times that the
message was: “shoot without thinking of the consequences”. “The colonel has us
said: in this operation we don't want to take risks; put ethics aside...
we will cry later”43
. According to journalist Gideon Levy, just a trial of
dehumanization would explain how an army allows itself to leave 1300 dead
and 100,000 homeless in 25 days "without too many remorse"44
.
The main question to ask therefore does not aim to reflect on an issue
legal or military, but to question how civil society with its
journalists, politicians, especially its academics, jurists, writers and artists
does not narrate this process of brutalization against Palestinian civilians to herself
only during a military operation, but also before and after
45
. In the absence of one
systematic study, we can only indicate some aspects of the way in which the elite
Israeli made its reasoning public. For example, the expert jurists of
international law, involved in the programming of “Piombo fused”, have
given, albeit hesitantly, permission to the army to bomb, from the first day
of the attack, the police academy, where dozens of Palestinians were reviewed
at the end of the course, as potential fighters in the case of the Israeli army
had entered the Strip. As well as bombing the "places of power of
Hamas”, because Hamas “would use all the institutional infrastructures of Gaza to
42 A. Harel, Oferet Yetzuka: bimkom lehitmoded im HaEduyot mesitim et Hanose, “Haaretz”, 16
July 2009. 43 S. Scheiner, Israeli soldiers, cit.
44 “An army that has not clashed with an enemy tank or plane for 63 years
combat, has been trained so that crushing private cars is the only task of the
tank and bomb civilian neighborhoods and that of the airmen; G. Levy, The defense army of
Israel?, “Haaretz”, 22 March 2009.
45 Published in April 2005 on the site and summarized in a 24-page publication, Horaot Ptiche
BeEsh beYosh ube ECHA (fire orders in Yedhuda Shomron and the Gaza Strip region),
April 2005, www.shovrimshtika.org.
Raya Cohen DEP n.13-14 / 2010
160
terrorist purposes". And they boast of having advised the army to warn the inhabitants
of a building before bombing it, because those who remain afterwards
the warning can be considered to be "participating in the fight", they say
to the journalists of “Haaretz”46
. These are jurists who try to make it legal
gray area between ius belli and right to defense on the one hand and ius in bello on the other,” in
way to allow the army to win legally”47
. In the attachment
legal annexed to the order of the "Cast Lead" operation was requested, for
as much as possible, to warn civilians close to a military objective, “except in cases
in which, by doing so, the lives of the soldiers or the operation were risked." He's not wrong,
perhaps, Daniel Reisner, the former head of the military department, according to which also the
international law can be changed, as happened for example after 9/11
September, depending on reality; in fact from Brittany to Russia, passing through
throughout Europe, the rules have changed in the "new wars" of recent years
48
. To the
limit, says law professor Orna Ben Naftali, interviewed by the newspaper
“Haaretz”
International law rather serves to justify violence, and now differences in
conflicts between combatants and civilians no longer exist – it can be justified with serious arguments
any action [...] in absolute contradiction with humanitarian law.

Quale narrazione?
In Israele, di fronte allo stato continuo di occupazione, di controllo e di
repressione della società palestinese, la società civile è molto più coinvolta nella
politica militare che non in altri paesi occidentali, non tanto per la vicinanza al
“fronte”, ma perché impone per legge ai suoi giovani di eseguire questa
repressione. E di farlo “mascherati” con una divisa, che da un lato li aiuta a
comportarsi come “unità organiche” che devono compiere la propria missione e
dall’altro, lontani dalla vita civile, li porta a comportarsi anche in pubblico fuori
dalla norma, pur essendo, prima e dopo il servizio militare, parte della società
civile
58
. In mancanza di ogni separazione fisica o simbolica dai palestinesi, i soldati
si trovano a controllarla come se fossero poliziotti e quindi a confrontarsi
direttamente, da uomini armati, con una popolazione civile che gli è estranea. È in
questo contesto che suggerisco di riflettere sul fenomeno delle magliette.
Le magliette raccontano una situazione liminale, difficile da interpretare, perché
senz’altro sono espressione di quel senso di fratellanza e di solidarietà che si crea
durante il servizio militare, simbolo di un’esperienza condivisa, come quelle di
tanti altri giovani, che si stampano le magliette, ma parlano della loro
partecipazione a una guerra59
. Ma a quale guerra? Per esempio quella del
battaglione Lavi, che da tre anni è in servizio nei Territori Occupati, che disegna su
una maglietta un fumetto con un bambino palestinese, che nel crescere diventa
prima un giovane lanciatore di pietre, poi un miliziano armato; “veni vidi vici”
(espresso in lingua ebraica al plurale); su un’altra si vedono armi, un soldato
arrabbiato e un paesino con una moschea distrutta; su un’altra ancora leggiamo
57 A.B. Yehoshua, An open letter a Gideon Levy, “Haaretz”, 16 gennaio 2009; trad. it. di Davide
Galati per “le coordinate gal(l)attiche”, www.peacelink.it. “È vero, la potenza di fuoco israeliana è
decine di volte superiore a quella palestinese ma la capacità di sopportazione e di resistenza dei
palestinesi è infinitamente superiore a quella degli israeliani. Se Israele avesse reagito in modo
“proporzionato”, rispondendo con un razzo per ogni missile caduto sul suo territorio, nessuno a Gaza
ne sarebbe rimasto impressionato. I capi di Hamas avrebbero addirittura deriso una simile reazione e
continuato a lanciare razzi a loro piacimento”. Intervista a A.B. Yhoshua, Hamas non ha pietà per la
sua gente, “La Stampa”, 8 gennaio 2009.
58 Si veda l’interessante articolo di Eyal Ben-Ari che racconta e analizza la sua esperienza da soldato
nella prima intifada, Masks and Soldiering: The Israeli Army and the Palestinian Uprising, in
“Cultural Anthropology”, vol. 4, 4 (Novembre 1989), pp. 372-389.
59 U. Blau, Yotam Feldman, Mivza Oferet Yetzuka, cit.
Raya Cohen DEP n.13-14 / 2010
163
nella didascalia: “Non importa come inizia, siamo noi a decidere quando finisce la
partita”60
. Alcuni si esprimono in chiave maschilista, come testimonia la maglietta
“Better use Durex”, la scritta è in inglese, come se fosse veramente un messaggio
promozionale, pubblicitario o di sensibilizzazione. Il corpo femminile, anziché un
simbolo territoriale di cui appropriarsi, rimane un corpo intatto, materno, che
simboleggia la riproduzione, la forza demografica del nemico. E i disegni fanno
allusione al dolore materno, come in quella menzionata sopra che si rivolge
direttamente alla madre, o in quella che nel raccomandare l’uso di preservativi,
mostra nel mirino una madre che piange il suo bambino morto o ancora in un’altra
dipinta su una maglietta di una unità composta solo (! !) da cecchini (disegnata nel
2006) in cui si vede nel mirino un palestinese armato di un coltello, nella parte
inferiore delle donne che piangono, con le parole, in alto, “bisogna correre veloce,
correre veloce, prima che finisca” e a seguire la scritta “e poi piangono, e poi
piangono”. Alcune magliette ci raccontano anche qualcosa su quelle nuove armi
sofisticate, che sarebbero la soluzione tecnologica per puntare solo sulla minaccia
reale e risparmiare gli innocenti. Su una maglietta che celebra la fine di un corso
per cecchini si vede un bambino armato preso di mira e la scritta “più piccolo, più
difficile”. Le magliette raccontano una guerra “demografica” in cui bambini e
madri diventano uno degli stereotipi principali del nemico e il soldato, in missione
per la difesa del corpo della nazione, mira contro di loro assimilandoli ad una
minaccia, reale o immaginata. In questa chiave di lettura le magliette non sono un
fenomeno marginale e non sono un fatto militare ma civile.
Incantata da discorsi che, anche in altri spazi pubblici in occidente, riducono
l’altro ad un numero, che delegano la difesa del corpo nazionale ai mezzi
polizieschi e militari muniti di una tecnologia che garantirebbe il minimo delle
vittime “nostre” e ridurrebbe “gli effetti collaterali”, la società civile israeliana
cerca di distogliere lo sguardo dalle immagini brutali, addirittura dai crimini di
guerra, stampate sulle magliette e cerca quindi di non ammettere le proprie
responsabilità. Ma chi è l’autore di queste storie? I soldati in servizio di leva? i
civili che nel congedarsi dal servizio militare le hanno stampate? oppure le élite
che parlano della “minaccia demografica”, giustificano i crimini di guerra e
tacciono sull’occupazione imposta a un altro popolo?
60 Cfr. U. Blau, Korbanot Ofna: Hahedpesim sheAl hulzot yechidot Zahal: Hereg Tinokot veNashim
Beharyon, 20 marzo 2009.

@Twilight Princess if you are referring to me, I apologize because I have poor knowledge of English. I was praising you and writing that you were logical, and valid in understanding and objectively describing the institution.

In short, it was praise for you.

And in response to Cyberdad, perhaps I used words that were not in keeping with the meaning of my speech. in case you know that it is absolutely involuntary and I publicly apologize to you.

I was responding to cyberdad’s one post. Sorry for the confusion! I should’ve quoted it. I haven’t had my coffee yet.

I’ll fix that now.

I was just in Melbourne city one hour ago and saw this



In federation square the big screen was showcasing the faces of those still held as hostages in Gaza

This is really raw. None of these people want preferential treatment, They want justice for the families of the victims.

Certain people are giving the Israeli government preferential treatment by refusing to express any sympathy for Palestinian victims and by refusing to acknowledge the atrocities the IDF has committed.

I feel for everyone.

Something else that’s raw:

Last edited by TwilightPrincess on 06 Nov 2023, 8:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

More news:

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-ea ... 023-11-05/



https://apnews.com/article/lebanon-isra ... 6b63b40a1c

Don't worry: I thought I had written a post and made a mistake in writing it!

And then about you...

Honestly you are a priceless treasure here in the forum.

You have so much logic, and it's really nice to read you.

My first feeling was: what the hell did you write Huck Finn


Then today is a day where I'm doing other things, and the topic is so important that I rushed to answer, and then started doing things again, and I thought about my mistake.

It's fine that I haven't made yet another mistake, I have to translate too many times but this already into one of our national languages.

Imagine this: if I only made one like you I would put my signature on it.

I wanted to reply to a friend on a dedicated thread but I didn't.

Then I apologize to him!

"Italian" restricted coffee has the least caffeine of all in the world, use the moka rather than a coffee machine, avoid those pods full of I don't know what.
<>
In greeting both you and everyone in the thread, what you show, know that we have censorship and we have to talk about a political faction.

An Israeli lady said she was against all statements made against Palestinians.

They did not respond to her and deviated from her distancing.

<>

As mentioned: absolute disapproval of terrorism and understanding of the fears of all those involved, because they live it every moment, as long as they live.
We are in our homes, even if they are small or less wealthy than many others, who knows, here I am at maximum risk of being hit on the street or of a more intense earthquake than usual, or a flood like last summer.


But last night I was able to sleep for 3 hours.

Today I ate (which is a nightmare for me, but I was able to do it), and I will have a tomorrow.

They are in the midst of a war at home, and perhaps they don't have a house, but perhaps they don't even have any children, or an entire neighborhood no longer exists, because in half a second someone decided to destroy it.


There is no one who is right, but perhaps someone who is dead wrong has been around for several decades.

*The truce is possible if we important states, instead of doing nothing or even helping those who can cause many disasters, immediately committed ourselves politically to a one-month truce.

And declare that nothing like this must ever happen in that place again.

To none of them.

It is not true that we cannot do anything, as simple citizens, if we remove political support from our governments they will do what the people ask.

Peace.

In a Sacred place among other things.

If we oppose one war we will oppose a global policy of chain wars.

Believe what? and from whom?

That children dying is the fault of Israel or Hamas. Believe either side's statements.

Israel says Hamas is using kids as human shields And preventing women and children from evacuating, putting them in the line of fire, resulting in civilian deaths when Israel attacks Hamas.

Hamas will claim that Israel is indiscriminately firing on civilians and that's why the death toll of women & children keeps rising. They'll deny using them as human shields or that they're preventing them from evacuating.



IMO they're probably all telling half truths & outright lies and none of them should be believed. Hamas is likely using women and children as human shields, preventing them from getting out of harms way. And Israel is probably firing on pretty much anything that moves, justifying the kills as killing Hamas sympathizers or future Hamas members as they label all of the people as hostiles.

You probably can't answer this, but if that's what CD meant, what does that have to do with the number of child causalities, they are still dead no matter who killed them.

But yeah, there is a disinformation war going on.

Well currently all Israeli sources of news is being labelled Israeli propaganda. This is dangerous. For example the Gaza hospital blast that killed 500 people. HAMAS immediately blamed the IDF (despite knowing the truth) and this was taken on face value by the western media resulting in a rise in anti-semitism around the world and violent protest targetting Israelis and pro-Israel jews.

The IDF reported they did not target the hospital. But the knee jerk reaction was to call their claims false. Subsequent independent investigation found HAMAS had lied. It was a misfired rocket from their side.

The implication is twofold 1. HAMAS are happy to spread false news or exaggerate facts. 2. HAMAS literally don't care about it's own people. This is clear evidence they are manipulating the narrative. I would not be surprised they are holding Palestinians hostage in their bunkers so that when Israeli bombs target HAMAS positions they can show dead children.

And there's the thing - when you see dead children, how many are because HAMAS forced them to stay? it all depends whom you believe, The IDF has been saying for a long time HAMAS use civilians as human shields. HAMAS will counterclaim the IDF target civilians. Who do you believe?