Israel severs ties with UN Human Rights Council

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JeremyNJ1984
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30 Mar 2012, 1:49 pm

Billybones wrote:

JeremyNJ1984 wrote:

You are conveniently leaving out the Suicide bombings, the constant propaganda, infusion of weaponry from hostile regimes, and the fact the Palestinian have had numerous chances to have their state. But lets ignore those brutal facts.....They don't want citizenship in Israel...they elected their own representatives in gaza and the west bank, remember? can't have 2 govts.

Do you mean to insinuate that Israel holds the moral high ground because it delivers its explosives with guided missiles rather than suicide vest? The bottom line is that for every Israeli life lost in the sequence of this long conflict, about 1,000 Arab lives are lost - referring to wars in Gaza in 2009 & Lebanon in 2006 especially.

When it comes to the infusion of weaponry, the Arabs got nothing like what the U.S. delivers to Israel.

As for propaganda, I can't think of a single other instance in which the media coverage is so one-sided. We're all trained to view this conflict through the prism of "terrorism" & the presumption of Israeli righteousness.

As for the Palestinian desire for statehood & the rights of citizenship, it has to be a fully sovereign & independent state with full control of its borders, not a bantustan or a demilitarized, dependent rump state. It must contain ALL the territory of occupied Palestine, with a just accommodation for the displaced Palestinians & either a right of return or some form of compensation in lieu. Of course we all know that Israel has no intention of agreeing to this. It fully intends to keep & settle the lands it conquered, & as for the Palestinian Arabs, either kill, deport, or make life so miserable for them that will leave on their own accord.

The Media is one sided? yeah the BBC, CNN, MSNBC are always fair to Israeli pov....lmaooo..ok...what world do you live on??

So a Palestinian state should be what they DEMAND ( with " refugees" )...a zero sum game?? you know exactly how absurd that is and would never be accepted. So grow up and stop being an extremist. No nation would agree to give in to the demands you think Israel should....you are practically asking for Israel to unilaterally dismantle its country and put itself at the mercy of the Palestinians....sure....thats brilliant....

Sigh......this is pretty pathetic.

Sweetleaf
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30 Mar 2012, 2:23 pm

JeremyNJ1984 wrote:

Sweetleaf wrote:

JeremyNJ1984 wrote:

The money and weapons are not used for the purpose of killing Palestinians. Not sure if you ever talked to an IDF soldier before, but they aren't directed toward killing Palestininas with each new weapons they make or get.

I know that, but considering it is the military that Israel uses to keep the palestinians 'in line' in an indirect way it does. I just don't see why the U.S should be involved with this unless they actually have some idea for a solution. Just funding Israels military and accusing anyone who disagrees with Israels policies of being an anti-semite is not a good way to go about it. I mean I really don't care what religion people follow or what ethnic background they have but that does not make me like Israels government anymore than any other government.

Also, the One Nation approach is never going to happen...if you knew the history you would know this would never be accepted from either side for legitimate reasons....Jews would become a minority overnight in this new state and they would be at the mercy of the Arabs. Arabs would never desire a shared govt with Jews. This concept was originally devised in the 1920s..in fact you could see part of the reason for the Partition plan in 1948 by the way this system was just flat out not working within the framework of the British Mandate govt than ran Palestine. A One State Solution is a Final Solution for Jews...Every diplomat and person realizes that it would have to be 2 states.

Yeah that is why I think both sides should get over their thousand year old grudge already, because endless fighting between the two isn't going to work....and the children in palestine and Israel should not grow up learning to hate each other, that's BS and a waste of peoples lives in my opinion. I mean that would be like if i decided to start a 'take back the native land from the white man' revolution since I'm part native american that would just stir old grudges.

..its not a 1,000 year grudge...its actually about 75-80 years of actual conflict. But the Israeli military is not there to keep Palestinians in line...its there to protect Israelies from very real violence internally ( suicide bombers) and external ( hezbolla, hamas, Iran).

Also protection is one thing, but treating all the Palestinians as potential terrorists is not working. Also I still havn't seen anything to disprove they disregard civilian lives when they 'pursue' these terrorists.

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JeremyNJ1984
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30 Mar 2012, 2:41 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:

JeremyNJ1984 wrote:

Sweetleaf wrote:

JeremyNJ1984 wrote:

When pursuing terrorists? You do know that their are specially designed units in the IDF called Duvduvarim that are urban warfare tactical units that are trained on how to minimalize the loss of human life...when rockets from Gaza city are fired into Israeli territory, Israel has no other choice but to go after the targets which are deliberatly placed in civilian areas as to maximize media attention. When your enemy hides in civilian buildings, including schools and hospitals, you are left with very little options.

Im sure you knew that.....

Sweetleaf
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30 Mar 2012, 2:44 pm

JeremyNJ1984 wrote:

Sweetleaf wrote:

JeremyNJ1984 wrote:

Sweetleaf wrote:

JeremyNJ1984 wrote:

So its ok if civilians get shot because they where in the way of Israels military might.......uhh like I've said I think both sides are in the wrong, so I don't see why people seem to insist Isreals government is justified in every single action they take and choice they make. Most people aren't even that excessively loyal to their own countries governments.

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JeremyNJ1984
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30 Mar 2012, 2:46 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:

JeremyNJ1984 wrote:

Sweetleaf wrote:

JeremyNJ1984 wrote:

Sweetleaf wrote:

JeremyNJ1984 wrote:

Civilians die in War...I hate to break this news to you...the world is not peaches and cream and butterflies. Do you want me to explain to you how mant civilians in Japan lost their lives due to Allied aerial bombardment? would you make this case that because civilians died on both sides in world war II that no side was in the right? this Universal relativism is frankly obscene.

ruveyn
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30 Mar 2012, 5:09 pm

JeremyNJ1984 wrote:

Seven hundred thousand Japanese were killed by air raids. Not nearly enough. And fewer than a half million Germans. Definitely not enough consider the damage they did. In any serious war the first target after the strategic and tactical assets are destroyed is the population of women and children. That will assure the loser will not do any wars in the future because he will have no future.

ruveyn

HerrGrimm
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30 Mar 2012, 6:26 pm

How they did not do this before is beyond me. If you look at the Human Rights Council, it is predominately Muslim countries who feel they have no purpose except to denounce Israel. Or at least it was a couple of years ago.

VMSmith
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30 Mar 2012, 8:47 pm

ruveyn wrote:

Billybones wrote:

You are conveniently leaving the Occupied Territories out of this analysis. The majority of Arabs under Israeli rule live here, without the basic rights of citizenship & frequently subjected to brutality, arbitrary arrest, material deprivation, confiscation of land, demolition of homes, & collective punishment. This IS a de facto Apartheid system, in place for nearly 45 years now, & the Palestinians have a legitimate right to resist. I know I would.

The Palestinians whose homes are destroyed are those involved in attacking the state. It is the avowed purpose of the Palestinians to -eliminate- the state of Israel. This folks are enemies of the State and have no rights than the Israeli government is bound to recognize.

ruveyn

israels idea of attacking the state is saying it shouldnt exist, that it has no ligitimacy, that there should be a one state solution or on a smaller scale, attacking the state is a little child throwing stones at tanks. resisting oppression is attacking the state. the palestinians have a right to resist. and on the question of violence, 2 things:
there is a great deal of difference between the violence of the oppressed and that of the oppressor for one is an act of resistance and attempt at liberation and the other is just brutal repression.
and also when one talks of violence between israel and the palestinians one must rember that these 2 groups are not on a level playing field. one has tanks, is rumoured to have nuclear weapons, the backing of the west financially, materially and in word and white phosphorus and the other side has bombs.

also the state of israel has no right to not recognise rights. the idea of human rights is that they are inalienable or else the whole idea of human rights is just worthless for what use are they if you can just decide who does and does not get them?

JeremyNJ1984 wrote:

Quote:

The Media is one sided? yeah the BBC, CNN, MSNBC are always fair to Israeli pov

yes they are. what you didnt hear about the bbc censoring "free palestine" did you? because, you know, it implies palestine isnt free. the murdoch papers, which make up most of the press these days, are particualarly heinous, surely you cant deny they love zionism and israel? they are usually soft on israel and decry action like BDS.

snapcap
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31 Mar 2012, 2:01 pm

http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=8123

ruveyn
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31 Mar 2012, 4:21 pm

Billybones wrote:

ruveyn wrote:

This folks are enemies of the State and have no rights than the Israeli government is bound to recognize.

ruveyn

Spoken like a true "libertarian", eh?

When the thugs come with the bombs and the rockets force has been initiated. Libertarians are NOT pacifists.

ruveyn

jojobean
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01 Apr 2012, 2:05 am

I agree with Sweetleaf....both sides just need to wake up from this hate induced trance and try to make things work.

See the biggest problem here is simple, it is escalation, each time one side attacks the other, the other side attacks back....and it keeps getting taken to the next level. Both sides need to agree to stop fighting. Both countries are suffering immensely because of this, and they need to see this constant fighting does not work.

I dont think what Sweetleaf is saying is totally unreasonable. Pick apart details if you must, but the core of what she is saying is both sides are guilty and both sides need to agree to stop fighting.
What is so unreasonable about that?

Jojo

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snapcap
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01 Apr 2012, 11:12 am

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/israel-defense-ministry-plan-earmarks-10-percent-of-west-bank-for-settlement-expansion-1.421589

Quote:

Newly released maps indicate Civil Administration secretly setting aside additional land for Jewish settlements, presumably with the intention of expanding them.

Jono
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02 Apr 2012, 2:21 pm

From the founder of Human Rights Watch:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/why-do-human-rights-groups-ignore-palestinians-war-of-words/2011/09/26/gIQAWU5y2K_story.html

snapcap
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02 Apr 2012, 2:54 pm

Jono wrote:

From the founder of Human Rights Watch:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/why-do-human-rights-groups-ignore-palestinians-war-of-words/2011/09/26/gIQAWU5y2K_story.html

Gist of article: Why isn't it a crime to speak your mind?

:roll:

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Jono
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02 Apr 2012, 4:02 pm

snapcap wrote:

Jono wrote:

From the founder of Human Rights Watch:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/why-do-human-rights-groups-ignore-palestinians-war-of-words/2011/09/26/gIQAWU5y2K_story.html

Gist of article: Why isn't it a crime to speak your mind?

:roll:

So, the fact that Hamas has in it's charter, the destruction of Israel as it's primary goal, is them "just speaking their minds"? I see. The next time someone analogously talks about how Palestinians should be wiped off the map, I shall also consider them "just speaking their minds" just like you have done with Israel.

snapcap
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02 Apr 2012, 11:09 pm

Jono wrote:

snapcap wrote:

Jono wrote:

From the founder of Human Rights Watch:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/why-do-human-rights-groups-ignore-palestinians-war-of-words/2011/09/26/gIQAWU5y2K_story.html

Gist of article: Why isn't it a crime to speak your mind?

:roll:

You're right. Indefinite detention for anyone caught speaking poorly of some other country.

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