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cyberdad
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19 Aug 2017, 11:20 pm

synthpop wrote:
People fear that if they don't defend individuals' "rights" to say hateful things, their rights are at risk as well. Most people defending the white supremacists that aren't white supremacists themselves are doing so because they see 'freedom of speech' as beautiful, even though freedom of speech is already conditional and not entirely 'free.'

This freedom to say what you want is a little mischievous when the content of what is said can cause people to have PTSD



androbot01
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20 Aug 2017, 5:55 pm

The freedom of speech of the alt-right has not been curbed, so I'm not sure why they are bothered about that. It seems that maybe they think that freedom of speech includes the non-response of the listener, but the people who disagree have freedom of speech as well.



kraftiekortie
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20 Aug 2017, 6:05 pm

Yep. They do.



Kraichgauer
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20 Aug 2017, 9:05 pm

androbot01 wrote:
The freedom of speech of the alt-right has not been curbed, so I'm not sure why they are bothered about that. It seems that maybe they think that freedom of speech includes the non-response of the listener, but the people who disagree have freedom of speech as well.


I'm not sure if the conservative element of WP commenting here grasps that last part of your post.


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cyberdad
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21 Aug 2017, 1:58 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
androbot01 wrote:
The freedom of speech of the alt-right has not been curbed, so I'm not sure why they are bothered about that. It seems that maybe they think that freedom of speech includes the non-response of the listener, but the people who disagree have freedom of speech as well.


I'm not sure if the conservative element of WP commenting here grasps that last part of your post.

Grand old conservative principles that apply when replying to opposition liberals (and small children)
- do what is say don't do what I do
- be quiet! children should be seen and not heard



xDominiel
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21 Aug 2017, 3:49 am

Barchan wrote:
There is no alt-left.


What is people's definition of "alt" anyway?

Antifa and the unironically communist left is a pretty clear "alternative" to the more level-headed left. To deny that there exists radicals on either side of the spectrum is really not helpful.

Barchan wrote:
nothing "alt" about opposing those things, you are supposed to be against fascism


The "alt" part comes into politics and behavior, not in what they are against.



DarthMetaKnight
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21 Aug 2017, 4:14 am

xDominiel wrote:
What is people's definition of "alt" anyway?


It means "alternative" in this context. It's supposed to be an alternative to the conservatism of the Bush presidency.

This is why the birth of the alt-right is unsurprising to me. The Bush presidency was a disaster. The reputation of the political right was destroyed by the "weapons of mass destruction" scandal. They desperately need to rebuild and rebrand themselves.

The term "alternative right" comes from a blog with that name. The blog was and still is a white nationalist blog. The alt-right has racist origins. There is no denying that.

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Antifa and the unironically communist left is a pretty clear "alternative" to the more level-headed left.


Level-headed left? Are you talking about people like Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton?

They are certainly "level headed". They know how to make money at the expense of the working class. Selfish egoists are often level-headed.

... or were you referring to Bernie Sanders? He's a bloke who actually cares about the working class.

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To deny that there exists radicals on either side of the spectrum is really not helpful.


Radicalism and extremism aren't the same thing.

A radical is someone who gets to the root of the problem. For example, the anti-war radicals understand that corporate corruption causes the vast majority of wars nowadays.

There is a big difference between radicalism and blithering insanity.

"To be radical is to grasp things by the root."
- Karl Marx


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xDominiel
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21 Aug 2017, 4:27 am

DarthMetaKnight wrote:
Level-headed left? Are you talking about people like Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton?


I'm talking about those who understand that they are really not qualified to just go out there and deal with the bad guys themselves. People don't have all the facts, they usually don't have the restraint to not abandon all their morals in the process, and they don't even know who the bad guys are apart from having a vague stereotype to go by. It's why mob justice almost always ends up getting innocent people caught in the crossfire.

DarthMetaKnight wrote:
A radical is someone who gets to the root of the problem. For example, the anti-war radicals understand that corporate corruption causes the vast majority of wars nowadays.

There is a big difference between radicalism and blithering insanity.

"To be radical is to grasp things by the root."
- Karl Marx


Yet what is the root? No one agrees on what the problem really is. And their solutions usually just pour more fuel on the fire. Every radical thinks they are the only sane one.



TUAndrew
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21 Aug 2017, 2:34 pm

Barchan wrote:
There is no alt-left.

The alt-right supports fascism, discrimination, blind hatred, Christian supremacy, and an unrestrained murderous police force.
There's nothing "alt" about opposing those things, you are supposed to be against fascism in America.


The problem comes when they are so focused on opposing a group that they actualy lose sight of what it is they're defending and thus become just as bad as the facists that they claim to be against. For example:

"White supremacy is wrong and I'll stand-up against it wherehever it happens"- justified

"A working class, white autistic male is part of a group with Privilege™, which means that it's ok to be racist and sexist towards him even if I personally have more socio-economic power than him."- Not justified. At all.